‘We’re not ready yet’ says Rummage4 boss as industry awaits official launch

Rummage4Property does not yet have an official public launch date but is already helping agents to get their listings viewed online, its chief executive has revealed.

Anthony Codling, chief executive of the industry portal challenger established by Robert May, said Rummage4Property is waiting until there is enough scale for a fully fledged launch.

It was revealed last year that Countrywide and other agency groups as well as house builders have signed up to list their homes with the start-up, but its website still displays a “coming soon” message but invites agents to sign up.

Codling said it was “technically live” as it is already working with some agents and helping to boost views of their listings.

The former City analyst who took up his post at Rummage4 towards the end of last year, told EYE yesterday: “We are already working with a growing number of agents.

“We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.”

He said the Rummage4Property technology is already helping agents get views from the millions of searches that aren’t just for portals and instead ask for a specific type of property or for someone to sell their home in a certain area.

Speaking at the Guild of Property Professionals conference in London, Codling also outlined other ways Rummage4Property is already helping agents by letting them map out areas where they have sold properties, rather than just where they are listing, so they can show a potential vendor their marketing success stories.

Agents can zoom in to street level on dedicated interactive maps that show property details and prices to help them showcase their success.

Codling also predicted that instructions would be harder to get this year but said high street agents were better placed than those online or “passive intermediaries” as they would have a database of buyers, which he said provides more value than just listing on a portal.

He said: “Passive intermediaries fail because they don’t have active databases.

“They put up a property on portals and wait. What is driving where houses get sold for them is buyer aspirations not the seller.

“The seller is paying but is reaching buyer aspirations.”


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  1. cyberduck46

    “We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.”  
    Agents need to be wary of any company offering positions in Google. Many terms deliver no traffic and a while back on twitter Robert May was boasting about being number 1 for a particular search term but when I checked Adwords, Google was saying there were on average zero clicks generated for that search term.  
    It is very easy to rank in Google for uncompetitive search terms that deliver no traffic.  
    Also, with just a few agents, it is possible to rank for certain search terms because the site rank is divided between a small number of pages. If more agents are added then the site has more pages and the share of rank each page receives is smaller. So any agent who has signed up and is seeing good results for certain terms may not do so as more agents join up.  
    Like I say be careful and ask for proof of actual traffic delivered before paying out.  
    I’ve just asked Google how many pages on the rummage4property.co.uk site it has indexed and there are only 29 and 6 of these are described by Google as having no information because “The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.”

    1. GPL


      …….and who put you in charge of “Warning” people cyberduck 46?

      Get your credentials on the table and then one can take a view on any comment you make relating to “Warnings!”.



      1. cyberduck46

        GPL,   Degree in Computer Science with Postgraduate Qualification. Retired now but 30+ years in the business with the last 6 developing my own websites and marketing using Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) & Pay per Click advertising (PPC). Achieved positions in Google for very competitive high value terms from SEO. Affiliated with several top companies and was Tesco Finance’s top affiliate one year. Got in early when top positions could be achieved by new websites, then as this started to get harder moved into PPC before it got competitive. When it became harder to get top positions for high value terms and when PPC became too expensive I retired. Much harder these days. A lot of conmen about telling you otherwise.    
        I see you have at least one #1 position in Google from using rummage4. The term I’ve identified is not getting you any exposure whatsoever though. Nobody sees your companies name. No visitors. It’s worthless.
        Very happy to look at how well rummage4 is performing for you overall in terms of Google positions. No fee. Not looking to earn a fee – happily retired! Like I say a lot of companies make claims about achieveing positions in Google and it’s very easy to do this for terms that nobody searches for. Essentially you’re paying for nothing and a lot of people don’t even realise it and continue paying.
        I can contact you via the details on your website if you want.  

    2. dwell

      Looking at their ahrefs profile it’s hard to see how they’d be able to rank for anything outside of their own branded searches. Surely if your USP was getting people to the top of the SERP you’d have nailed the basics on your own site first.

    3. Property Pundit

      Good grief, your continued attempts to denigrate this project just show how shockingly ignorant you are about how the internet and building/launching websites works. Ask Google? You’re a joke. When this service launches we will all see just how big a berk you really are.

      1. dwell

        Jesus. Calm down.

      2. cyberduck46

        >Ask Google? You’re a joke.


        Yes Property Pundit, didn’t you know you can find out how many pages of a site Google has indexed?


        Quite simple. Type ‘site:rummage4property.co.uk’ and you’ll see how few pages from the site are indexed and see the actual pages.


        Type ‘site:zoopla.co.uk’ and there are 11,750,000 pages indexed.


        PropertyPundit, why not do some searches to see if you can find any pages from agents that have joined. Countrywide have joined up and I had a quick look myself for “battersea estate agent”. Bairstow Eaves appearing pretty low down for that search and that’s their own site not rummage4property. rummage4property are nowhere to be seen.


        Considering Robert May was advertising rummage4 on here back in January 2107, claiming “The people who have seen what the technology does know how powerful it is. They don’t know what it is doing different but R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost.”, do you not think we should be seeing more than a handful of pages indexed in Google?


        See https://www.propertyindustryeye.com/agent-who-complained-about-portal-juggling-by-competitor-sent-round-the-houses-by-regulators/





        1. Property Pundit


        2. SLF

          Well said Cyberduck26. 

          He’s been harping an about this project for ages. If he ever gets it off the ground It’ll never work and you’ve perfectly highlighted the main problem.

          Property Pundit: zzzzzzzzzzzz is another way of covering your ears and shouting “lalalalalalala” Typical of someone who has either not got the point or doesn’t want to hear it.

          1. Property Pundit

            You have no idea what’s coming down the track. I DO.

        3. Frown Please

          Save your bashing for elsewhere Mr Troll Lawson.

      3. Anthonyw

        Property Pundit, you seem to know a lot about it. Why not tell us what is so special about it? Maybe if we knew too it would help us understand it more?

        1. Lil Bandit

          Property Pundit is PeeBee…. tragic

          1. Property Pundit


  2. DomPritch134

    It has only been a 4 year wait, what’s another couple hey.
    They are certainly in no rush that is for sure, let’s see how mind blowing this will be  after the constant grandiose claims by the owner.

    1. Property Pundit

      Keep flipping those houses DelBoy, this service will be able to help even people like you.

  3. AgencyInsider

    Congratulations Rummage. You have successfully revived the long-running, tediously boring, and much-unloved Duck & Dom Show. Yay!!!!!!

    1. Frown Please

      And all without mentioning ‘PB’…

      1. Property Pundit

        Give Dumb & Dumber time.

  4. OnlineEA

    Rummage4property?! Really? Come on guys, this isn’t 1993, if that’s your company name/brand then you’re in trouble.

    So so bad… get some marketers working on that as otherwise you’ll be swimming against the tide even more.

    1. Property Pundit

      Are you the guy that came up with Zoopla?

      1. OnlineEA

        I wish I was! Ha

        1. Property Pundit

          So what you’re saying is you’d be proud to put forward the term Zoopla for a property portal?

          1. OnlineEA

            Billion pound company with one of the most well known brands in the UK? No, not at all…

            1. Property Pundit

              So what’s your point? Are you saying it got to be a £1bn company due to its name?

  5. AgentV

    This is a great product that is designed and backed by people that have the best interests of our industry, especially the independent sector, at heart.

    This is not just another piece of prop tech that tries to solve problems that don’t exist. This is something that is totally different. I urge everyone to take a very close look.

    1. AgentV

      As a footnote, if you have read the comments above from the Call Centre Lister fan club, you will get a jist of how much effort they are trying to put in to discredit Rummage4…..ask yourself WHY?

      1. Property Pundit

        That’s an easy question to answer, because they’re losers.

  6. DarrelKwong43

    Is this the property industry version of the Brexit debate?

    I wonder which will happen first?

  7. Keyser Söze

    I’m very interested in Rummage and I have asked on here a few times but nobody seems to want to say what it is and does. I’ve had a dig around the other week using what little has been said on here and Twitter and is it this?

    I go into Google and type “sell my home in morley”

    There is a link in the top 4 for the sellmyhomein website that sends you to a personal page for the member agent Shaun Mellor

    People will then call or message Shaun Mellor asking for an appraisal

    Also these pages link to another website.boardhousewise.com that looks like the portal side of the business with the unique search method

    1. whatdoiknow58

      Boredhousewi*e.com sounds like a very dodgy site to me. Do you need to be over 18? LOL.

    2. Frown Please

      Looks like it has gone. A lot of urls registered it would seem.

    3. cyberduck46

      Keyser, there do appear to be redirects in place.
      Sends you to the sellmyhomein.co.uk website.
      I wonder if rummage4 know what will happen if they redirect to agents’ websites? I wonder if agent know what will happen if their sites are being redirected to by rummage4?

      1. dwell

        sellmyhomein.co.uk homepage is the same as the R4 landing page.
        A quick analysis of keyword positions for the pages associated with the domain is this;
        1-3 – 0 keywords
        4-10 – 1 keyword
        11-20 – 34 keywords
        21-30 – 26 keywords
        31-40 – 15 keywords
        41-50 – 15 keywords
        51-60 – 18 keywords
        61-70 – 13 keywords
        71-80 – 8 keywords
        81-90 – 4 keywords
        91-100 – 1 keyword
        The highest ranking keyword against a page is “pdg helston cornwall” with the page in position 10 in the SERP. A branded search where the estate agents website comes out top.

        1. Property Pundit

          You’re good.

          1. dwell

            High praise.

            1. Property Pundit

              But still clueless.

              1. dwell

                I was wondering where the barb was. I’ll keep swimming.
                Thanks though.

  8. Anthonyw

    I find it quite sad that any new ideas get slated on here before they have even been given a chance. I don’t have a problem at all with what Cyberduck is saying as just like we shouldn’t be putting ideas down, nor should we pretend that there couldn’t be potential problems either. There are always early days problems with anything whether it is setting up a high street agency or an online whatever, so give them a chance to demonstrate what their product does and cut them a bit of slack if things don’t work immediately out the box. Even Microsoft continue to put out problematic software. If you wait to put out the perfect solution it will never happen.

    I don’t know how heavily reliant the new system will be on Google but I hope it is minimal as the road Google are going down is going to make it very difficult for many businesses as the services we have took for granted for years are now being commercialized, particularly their mapping solutions which as most already know now incurs enforced charges for every map view after the daily limit is reached which on a busy site can be reached in no time. They will no doubt have to build those costs into their overheads and pass these on to users. Any business reliant on big corporates’ like Google or Facebook will have short lived success unless they can work just as well without them.

    Regarding their name it really doesn’t matter. There are a lot of non-nonsensical names like Zoopla, Zillow, Spoch etc. As long as it does it’s job that’s all that matters.

    1. cyberduck46

      >so give them a chance to demonstrate what their product does
      Anthonyw. They’ve told us what it does: ““The people who have seen what the technology does know how powerful it is. They don’t know what it is doing different but R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost.”
      See https://www.propertyindustryeye.com/agent-who-complained-about-portal-juggling-by-competitor-sent-round-the-houses-by-regulators/
      Trouble is there’s no evidence of this and considering it was “soft-launched” in May 2015 I think there should be some evidence.
      See https://www.propertyindustryeye.com/prototype-property-sortal-launches-could-this-be-the-future/

      1. Property Pundit


      2. Anthonyw

        Oh wow didn’t realise it has been trying to launch for that long! I agree with you cyberduck that there needs to be some evidence. I will read those links you sent properly later when I have more time. The links within those links are taking me here: https://rummage4.com/ which isn’t telling me anything at all. What do you mean here “R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost”. I am confused. What is it? Is it a portal? Is it a property search engine or something else entirely different? Maybe without giving things away someone could explain this to us? Property Industry Eye does appear to be a bit ‘clicky’ whereby there are a number of members who seem to be supporting only their own ideas and projects and then slagging off anything that even attempts to compete or offer similar. Is this new portal part owned by pie too? I like news sites to be totally impartial that’s all. Robert May seems to be getting lots of support and ‘air time’ from pie that others in the news don’t get. I like to see anything new within the industry and would like them all to get a fair crack at the whip because I believe the biggest successes come from the most unlikeliest of places and they are not always the ones where they get the most exposure.    

        1. cyberduck46

          Anthonyw, not sure whether there’s any connection between individuals mentioned and PIE.


          What this means “R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost” in my eyes is that it will deliver traffic at a lower cost than PPC (pay per click advertising). Can’t remember how much they are charging but for the terms I’ve seen them rank for they will be delivering next to zero traffic so make what you will of that.






          1. Property Pundit


  9. watchdog13

    I have no axe to grind and wish new entrants all the best. However, this has to be the longest we are about to launch story ever. Perhaps a little less PR until there is a product.

  10. Property Pundit

    Try googling how many times rummage has featured on here. You’ll be surprised how few it is. Oh, and it’s not ‘trying to launch’, it’s called product development. Huge difference.

  11. KC54

    They are attracting an awful lot of talent and experience at the top who clearly think Rummage4 is a winner!  Having looked at the offering, it will take time, but feel it will offer my business a USP that others don’t have because my competition are too blinkered!


  12. smile please

    I have had the privilege of seeing first had what it does.

    I am sure Robert, Anthony and the team will give further information in due course. They are ironing out the bugs and wanting to launch with a number of agents on board before the big song and dance.

    Just the calibre of people they are attracting should show you how good this can be.

    I will give a few snippets out to those that are interested.

    1. Imagine any search term you want on Google and you can get it first page organically and potentially number one spot, “Best estate agent in XXXXX” would you like that?

    2. Imagine a portal that listed agents property on a local map, and when the public click on that property they are taken to the listing on the agents site (or wherever they want) so there is no cross selling or advertising of other agents, Would you like that?

    3. Imagine a real search engine for property, where you want a specific view, road, how many cars you can fit in a garage as opposed to just how many bedrooms, would you like that?

    4. Imagine an industry site owned by the agents and not a board, so it can never be sold or merged with a competitor without their agreement, would you like that?

    5. Imagine a back office system that has an aggregator that takes into account previous sold price, current market price and conditions and gives a realistic figure on a property is worth not a random number generator, would you like that?

    6. Imagine a system that can help the public choose the best agent for their property without all the BS, They can see what has been sold at what price, by who and when, would you  like that?

    7. Imagine that just half of the above they can deliver and the public and agents take to it and they promise any rate rises will be in line with RPI, would you like that?

    As for the name Rummage4 This is Rummage4Property this is just one part of their vision. If you are a letting agent you may want to speak to them regarding utilities and a number of other products either now or in the future.

    Robert, if i have spoken out of line ask Ros to delete!

    1. smile please

      I guess we know who the dislikes are from, but be interesting to know why? How can any of the above be seen as negative for either property professionals or the public?
      Seems a lot of lemons must have been sucked today 😉 

      1. Property Pundit

        Your post name checks Robert May. This triggers some sad people for some reason.

    2. Property Pundit

      You missed the best part out but it’s only fair that this isn’t mentioned yet. The monthly charge.

    3. cyberduck46

      >Imagine any search term you want on Google and you can get it first page organically and potentially number one spot, “Best estate agent in XXXXX” would you like that?
      So you saw them demonstrate this for competitive terms that Adwords says will deliver traffic?  Ones that people actually search for rather than ones that flatter an Estate Agent’s ego? What was the term that you chose to be demonstrated?
      Did you sign up? How much extra traffic has it brought you?

      1. smile please

        The team have demonstrated a number of search terms i would like to see and they have shown it works. 
        Not a signed up member yet as i want to be part of the initial launch not a beta tester as i cannot give them the time required to give feedback.
        I know the agents that have signed up and currently using the system have been very happy with the results and working with the Rummage team to continually improve.
        i think Robert is incredibly smart not launching until fully satisfied as otherwise he will have people picking holes in it. Too many ‘Prop Tecj’ companies are launched on misleading and the public and empty promises. This is not the case here.
        What i find really interesting is why you are so against it? You are not an estate agent, if you are a home seller or purchasers it will only help you. I struggle to see why you do not want it to work? At least keep you powder dry until it fully launches, take a look at it then and then pull the bones out of it. At the moment you are making yourself look more foolish than usual as you have no idea what it does or how and already saying it does not work!

        1. cyberduck46

          smile please,


          I am a retired Computer Scientist and have 30 years experience in the business. Specifically in Internet Marketing. More specifically in SEO and PPC.


          I have just carried out a study of the 15 agents who are listed under the domain sellmyhomein.co.uk which is owned by rummage4 and which Google says are included in its index. Titles of every page starts with “Sell my home in” and that text is also in the domain so for a site like this one the most likely terms you would rank well for are “sell my home in ***”


          The XX’s for the pages indexed by Google are:




          Ashford and Maidstone


          Notting Hill







          Kirkby Lonsdale







          Moseley and Bournville





          South Molton

          Newton Abbot

          Preston, Paignton – Torbay



          There are indeed a lot of #1 positions for these pages for this search term but that is pure vanity because nobody searches for any of those phrases.


          I’ve checked every single one of them in Google’s adwords and the total number of impressions is zero.


          None of those agent swill receive a single visitor according to Google.


          >I know the agents that have signed up and currently using the system have been very happy with the results


          Quite happy to look at any other phrases you want me to. Have a word with the people who are happy and let me know. Also let me know the phrases you’ve discussed with Robert May and leave the area as *** if you want and I’ll have a look at them to see what traffic the current agents are getting.


          I’ve taken a look at “estate agent in ***” which is what you were earlier suggesting could be achieved earlier by rummage4 and so far have found nothing. Checked for arnside, bath, barnstaple. No poitions in Google for those search terms so far but I’ll continue looking.


          The reason why I am posting is because a lot of people are being conned when being promised positions in Google.



        2. cyberduck46

          Further to my earlier reply, I’ve now analysed the following terms which I’ve identified from what you have said and from what I’ve seen of the agents listed with rummage as ones to target:
          estate agent in Standish
          estate agent in Ashford and Maidstone
          estate agent in Barnstaple
          estate agent in Notting Hill
          estate agent in Arnside
          estate agent in Carnforth
          estate agent in Kendal
          estate agent in Windermere
          estate agent in Grange-Over-Sands
          estate agent in Ambleside
          estate agent in Kirkby Lonsdale
          estate agent in Scunthorpe
          estate agent in Roundhay
          estate agent in Bath
          estate agent in Salisbury
          estate agent in Helston
          estate agent in Prestwick
          estate agent in Moseley and Bournville
          estate agent in Bournville
          estate agent in Moseley
          estate agent in Middleton
          estate agent in Morley
          estate agent in South Molton
          estate agent in Newton Abbot
          estate agent in Preston, Paignton – Torbay
          estate agent in Barnstaple
          The only terms according to Google that receive any actual searches are the ones for Bath, Notting Hill, Preston, Salisbury and Paignton-Torbay.
          If you search in Google for “estate agent in ???” for those areas you won’t find either the rummage4property.co.uk site or the sellmyhomein.co.uk site listed in any of the top 10 positions, never mind the top position.
          This ties in so far with what I have learned over the years in that it is easy to get top positions for terms that aren’t worth anything but difficult to achieve top positions for ones that are worth something. Google isn’t stupid, it doesn’ just rank you highly for important search terms and people have been working on their sites for 15 years now and site age itself has a lot to do with it.
          I await anything from you, Robert May or anybody else that proves me wrong. I’ll be the first to congratualte somebody if they do.

          1. Property Pundit

            Sad, sad man.

  13. Trevor Gillham

    Do folks really search for ‘property for sale in…’ , ‘Estate Agents in ….’ etc etc? I think those days are gone unfortunately! People just enter Rightmove or Zoopla.

    1. smile please

      Would they not google best estate agent in xxxx or estate agents in xxxx 
      Rummage are not trying to compete with RM or Z they are looking at giving the power back to estate agents. Of course a by product if every agent uses them is they will then rival the portals but that is not their aim.
      I am sure some agents would even like the term “Cheapest local estate agent” (not me) OR anything else that comes to mind. Thats how powerful the product is.
      Take it away from property, why not best plumber in xyz !

      1. cyberduck46

        smile please, I recommend you and any other agent who is considering rummage4 sign up for an adwords account and check the number of impressions and clicks that Google forecast for any given term.  
        Google adwords suggests “cheapest local estate agent” and “best estate agent in blyth” have zero impressions so nobody searches in Google for them. Why would you even want to be number one for these terms if nobody searches for them?   
        If you really want it for ego purposes then just bid on it in Adwords. Nobody searches or clicks on it so you will appear whenever you need a boost to your ego and search yourself and it will cost you nothing whatsoever!  
        “best estate agent in london” doesn’t even get any impressions according to Google. This means nobody searches for it! Nor “best estate agent in the world” 🙂
        I wonder if the people who have invested money and moved jobs actually realise this even? 

        1. Property Pundit

          I know it’s still early in 2019 but this already ranks as the dumbest post on this site this year. Why don’t you just go and speculate on how the chinese got something to land on the dark side of the moon? You’ve more chance of being on the money. #clueless

          1. cyberduck46

            Property Pundit, the penny will drop for you eventually. I imagine all agents aren’t as gullable as you though.
            For any non-gullable Agents just sign up for an account with Adwords and you’ll see. I’d post screenshots if the forum allowed it. Zero impressions for a term mean that nobody searches for it!
            Now for a term like “online estate agents” there are 20,000 estimated impressions by Google so people clearly searching for this. Perhaps see how well rummage4 do getting to the top of the SERPS for this term. That would be something.
            Or “Nottingham Estate Agent” even. People actually search for that too but then any clever Estate Agents out there will be getting Google reviews as this seems to be the easiest way to get a top position from the 10 minute investigation I’ve done. Search for “Nottingham Estate Agent” and there are 3 agents shown by Google on a map.

            1. htsnom79

              People go where the houses are, if this is up to scratch we’ll put houses there, it’s then a fate accompli, keep your other smart ass Google fu.

              1. cyberduck46



                >People go where the houses are


                Well that’s not true. 95% of visitors to my PurpleBricks advertised property came from Rightmove. Hardly anybody in the North West even uses Zoopla and they have a lot of properties listed, wouldn’t you say?.


                I don’t think Agents will be fooled by what you are saying. They probably want some honesty.


                >>keep your other smart ass Google fu.


                I’m sorry it’s upset you but it’s rummage4 who keep marketing their offering as getting you to the top of Google.


                >“We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.”  


                Robert May earlier saying ““The people who have seen what the technology does know how powerful it is. They don’t know what it is doing different but R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost.”


                So it’s Rummage4 who are telling people they will get to the top of Google and that it’s better than PPC.


                I was just telling Agents how to check whether this is actually worth anything. It all sounds pretty impressive being top in Google and this is why thousands of businesses waste their money paying SEO companies. It’s not about positions it’s about positions that bring you quality traffic.


                1. htsnom79

                  Maybe I’m just casual about Google search results because we are top in our area, probably longevity we’ve been around a couple of decades, but, if it were to become known, even organically that there is somewhere new to buy a house and there are houses there it’ll find traction, especially with the support of the agents putting them there, OTM have a trust issue.

        2. smile please

          Its not an adwords account. Its organic SEO

  14. KByfield04

    It does feel like offerings are given a kicking on here before they have often have had a chance. Having built a tech platform myself which should hopefully launch in the coming weeks I can tell you building something that delivers on as many of your objectives as possible takes a lot of time and tweaking; working with a handful of agents to then start road-testing and tweaking again takes time before rolling out. We had hoped to launch over a year ago but delivering the exact product and agency/user experience we wanted was far more important than just ‘going live’. I am due a demo of rummage next week, so will not pass any comments on whether it is good/bad, but given the knowledge of the people behind it and the people now getting involved I will surprised if the offering has no merits.

    Tech businesses who raise big funds early pushing for a big launch and big roll out get a kicking for bonkers valuations and over zealous ambitions and it now appears that those attempting to bootstrap their product development (as we have done) to economically and sensibly deliver a product resulting in a much longer development & launch schedule do too.

    Surely we all want solutions that deliver increased business/revenue/efficiency/automation but we seem very quick to criticise them- some will be right for us and some for other agents and some won’t work- but at times companies even trying appear to be treated s the enemy. Can’t we all just get along?

    1. Anthonyw

      Hi Kbyfield,

      I agree totally with what you are saying. There seems to be a bit of a culture on these news sites whereby new ideas are slated. It may be that agents and others are sick of hearing about newcomers and people proclaiming to be the next big disruptor in the industry. We don’t need disruptors, we just need fresh ideas to come in, and for us to give them a chance to flourish. Hats off to anyone bootstrapping as in this industry that can’t be easy. I personally admire anyone who has a go, particularly if they are doing so without investor input as it shows just how passionate they are.

      The only way things are ever going to improve for the better is to work with new ideas and help those brave enough to bring them in to grow into what they could be. No one gets it right first time. It is only by working and re-working (based on input and feedback from end users) that the best version of the product can emerge.

      I for one will be interested to hear about your new system, so don’t get despondent (if indeed you are) by some of the comments. Keep up the good work!

  15. Anthonyw

    There is a lot in what cyberduck is saying that resonates with me too. He or she keeps getting shot down on here for disagreeing and questioning what many others are saying. Cyberduck has a tech background (he/she says over 30 years) so I think knows what he/she is talking about.

    I personally am not keen on the organic seo/google idea (I need more convincing). I am honestly wary of relying too much on anything Google/Facebook etc. as both these are undergoing immense change, plus there is lots on the internet about the death of organic SEO – like most things though this might just be scare mongering.

    I think the new portal will have its followers/users, just like RM, Z, OTM etc. People/the general public are fickle, some will like it and use it no doubt, others wont (or maybe everyone will – who knows?). Also, I don’t quite understand who decides that an agent is the ‘best in a given location’ – I would much rather this title has been earned by feedback from their clients and not because I gave myself that title to be found in a search engine or am I missing the point here?

    I have to admit it all seems a little confusing – maybe they should hold off promoting it anymore until it is live and we can see it working for ourselves.

    1. Sofa Sniper

      Sam Ashdown on Cyberduck’s killer phrase
      Here’s what doesn’t work:
      Spending a ton on Google Adwords

      One independent agent in Wimbledon I spoke to recently, spends £800 a month on Google Adwords. This brings her in, on average, two enquiries a month, so £400 each. But these are not quality market appraisals. Anyone who has to type into Google, estate agents in Wimbledon, is probably not the best quality vendor for you. Of course, they could be out of area, but more likely, they are at best, looking for a third agent valuation to make up the numbers, and at worst, simply looking for a transaction at the lowest cost.

      1. smile please

        2 Things I would say to that.


        1. Rummage is a fraction of that cost.

        2. Any one the takes Sam seriously should take a look around.

        1. cyberduck46

          smile please & Sofa Sniper


          Have you ever thought of analysing keywords, estimating traffic and quality of traffic?


          In terms of quality Sofa Sniper is on the right track, thinking about what the searcher is actually looking for when they type a phrase in. How much is that worth to you?


          People do waste a lot of money on Adwords but if you know what you are doing you don’t.


          If you’ve got a website that’s been around for a while you would get better positions than rummage4 with a bit of seo. Here you need to evaluate the competition. Occasionally you find a nice easy term to target that delivers traffic but people have been doing this a long time and you are more likely to be playing catch up.


          But there’s no real point in any of it if people don’t search for terms that convert. It seems to me on a very quick look, that in most there’s no quality traffic to be had. No point in adwords, seo or rummage4 to get positions in Google.


          How about some of the users of rummage4 commenting on positions obtained through using it? Quite happy to evaluate the benefit.




    2. Robert May

      Good morning AnthonyW, I think it best to correct the impression this story is us promoting rummage4.

      The “We’re not ready yet” headline should have been a clue this article wasn’t something to do with our marketing team.

      In respect of Mr. Lawson’s experience I think that really ought to be put into context. 30 years is a long time and a wealth of experience however  we are having to demonstrate to people at the top of their game as the current heads of digital strategy  whether that is to agents or AIM/ FTSE 100 & 250 listed house builders, franchises, affinity groups or corporate agencies. The initially sceptical head of digital for one AIM listed firm commented after our demo “I missed out on Rightmove, I am not missing out on this!

      I am not knocking Mr Lawson’s comments or experience but his fixation we are an SEO service and his warnings against us  demonstrate he has not yet understood the service we’re offering and what that’s building towards.

      Some very sharp (current) digital people have also commented on this thread, what they must realise we’re not offering an SEO or PPC service, we have a very fortunate bi product that  compliments a digital strategy not replaces it. One lady this time last year got very angry at me; what I was saying challenged her digital training, experience and in her mind believed I was threatening her position. In the  past 12 months what I was claiming has been proved correct, I’ve performed consistently and demonstrated everything I said I would.

      To those commenting about the time this is all taking please bear in mind some of the things we have achieved and had to achieve in order to progress the project.  We’ve built systems that do not benefit us at all, we’ve forced changes in other products that benefit agents and consumers, and we have have levelled the playing field so agents can compete honestly, winning business on the service they offer not the claims they make.

      If anyone has a genuine interest in finding out why I am attracting  strongly polarised opinion; criticism and condemnation from  SEO, PPC suppliers and advocates, respect and custom from agents and housebuilders, I’m always happy to explain how rummage4 is challenging the status quo.

      There were two industry journalists at the conferences I was invited to attended last week, one said hello. Neither asked about the product and I didn’t seek them out to tell them all about it. We are keeping a low profile building a product, building a business, building respect and building a customer base.

      Thank you all for your interest and comments. The supportive comments from agents fill me with pride, the negative ones tell me what I need to do to improve. I’m smart enough to listen to criticism especially from people who know or have done more than me, the focused précis of what I am doing wrong is efficient, invaluable and best of all, free!




      1. cyberduck46

        >I am not knocking Mr Lawson’s comments or experience but his fixation we are an SEO service and his warnings against us  demonstrate he has not yet understood the service we’re offering and what that’s building towards.


        Just for clarity I have never said you are an SEO service. You are putting words in my mouth to deflect from the point I am making.


        My comments relate solely to two examples of your promotion for rummage4property. Where you say the following:


        1) “We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.”

        2) “R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost”.


        There are other things you’ve posted on twitter but let’s concentrate on those two.


        I think you will find that if Anthony Codling & yourself are mentioning these things then people expect top positions in Google to be valuable especially when you refer to cost. From what I’ve seen and what I’ve seen you refer to on twitter, the positions obtained are of no value whatsoever. I provided examples above in posts #54 and #55 and you failed to address this.


        Yes, from what I have seen you are helping your customers come to the top of some valueless searches which I don’t think is what they would be expecting. Of course these valueless positions can also be achieved by SEO and by PPC, the PPC costing nothing because according to Google nobody sees or clicks on the advert. Of course the advantage of PPC is that you can choose a wide range of terms, some of them could even result in clicks if they are terms people search on. So as for pulling the legs of SEO and PPC, I think that’s somewhat misleading on what I’ve seen in Google. But feel free to correct me with examples and I’ll respond accordingly.


        Here are a couple of screenshots from Adwords showing zero impressions for the terms “sell my home in XXXXX” where XXXXX is the locality of your customers from what I can gather from Googles list of indexed pages for your domain sellmyhome.co.uk.




        Please feel free to advise on any other positions you have helped your customers achieve and I’ll check how many impressions Google estimates for them too. I repeat, zero impressions means Google estimates nobody searches for the term and therefore nobody will see it, never mind click on it.






  16. Anthonyw

    Hi Robert,


    thanks for taking time out to explain. Most appreciated. I think we just need to be patient and see what it actually does rather than second guessing everything!


    “I’m always happy to explain how rummage4 is challenging the status quo.”


    I think that is all that is needed as you can see how our fertile minds have gone haywire when left to our own devices and assumptions 🙂


    Good luck with the venture


    1. Robert May

      Thank you Anthony. Building a product, a company and a customer base from scratch isn’t something that can be achieved, in normal circumstances, in an instant.  That becomes even more difficult when the company is building a product that  has to achieve something most people believe impossible.

      As you can see in this thread alone  some people are angry that we have the audacity to try and are envious that we’re achieving  what we set out to do.

      I don’t  want and cannot afford for agents to wait for a final product to be delivered. It’s understandable agents and builders need to know  what they are getting for their money before parting with any.  We’re not as been intimated in this thread “conmen” who are selling google ranking with valueless SEO search terms.  We are taking a staged approach to having a detailed understanding of individual businesses and for now documenting simply who they are, what they build, sell or let and where.

      We are building a directory of all the good and decent agents and builders who build, sell and let properties in the country. Do those directories have benefits to the agents and builders which exceed the cost? That’s down to individual agents and builders to decide.




      1. cyberduck46

        >We are taking a staged approach to having a detailed understanding of individual businesses and for now documenting simply who they are, what they build, sell or let and where.  
        So nowhere near a release then if every business is being looked at individually. You need a system that can add tens of agents a day. It’s not scale-able if you have to have a detailed understanding of businesses. That’s too time consuming.  
        I notice you went to the effort to respond but didn’t address the legitimate questions I raise about your promotion based on Google Positions and being better than SEO and PPC. You try and dismiss any questions as being out of anger or envy. Very convenient. But you are happy to answer questions behind closed doors to agents who understandably know very little about the points myself and others are making here.  
        Do you still stand by these comments? In one sense you are saying you aren’t ready yet but in another you are saying that you already deliver top positions. Prove what you say you are already doing.  
        You are recruiting agents behind closed doors and telling them that you achieve top positions. Most agents wouldn’t recognize a top position worth having because it’s not their area of expertise. “smile please” being a perfect example in saying he’d like to be number 1 for “best agent in XXXXX”.  
        To any agent speaking to rummage4 behind closed doors I recommend they ask them not only what top positions they can help them get but how many impressions and how many clicks those terms receive according to Adwords.  
        Even better, open an account with adwords (very easy and no need to fund to evaluate keywords and traffic estimates) and check out these values yourselves for your local area and go to rummage4 with a term that Google predicts has a high number of impressions/clicks and tell them to demonstrate them putting you in top position for that term.  
        This is a screenshot taken from rummage4properties promotional video. In this they are suggesting worthless positions in Google have value. This is their promotional video!
        Makes you wonder what is going on behind closed doors. There’s a reason why Robert May won’t engage in public to answer these questions. I have plenty of others too but I suppose they will have to wait until the next article on rummage4.

        1. Sofa Sniper

          His response to AnthonyW has shown he will engage in debate but is obviously ignoring you.  Reading your posts I understand why. You had a PPC, SEO business, in your own words, you did it when it was easy and cheap but gave up when it got difficult and not cost effective.

          It seems you think he is doing SEO but as it’s still not clear what he is showing agents and what he is saying to them.

          It’s telling how none of the customers you claim are being deceived are posting that they’ve been mislead. On here no-one gets away with that. GPL is one of the most forthright posters on here and would certainly have something to say.


          1. smile please

            Shame we do not have the clapping ‘Emoji’


            Robert is at pains to explain when he talks to people this is not an SEO product, it is a by product but a by product that works exceptionally well.


            As for terms, what terms do you want him to rank for, bear in mind this is about being hyper local. It not aimed at an onliner or corporate looking for a term to dominate the UK.


            Most offices cover a 5 mile radius, its about appealing to the people in that location. This is why we do not use PPC or SEO companies like your one that as above Sofa Sniper has pointed out probably closed because it was too difficult. Most PPC companies do not understand what agents want, they just try and get ‘clicks’ which may not even be relevant.


            1. cyberduck46

              smile please, not sure if you are referring to me when you say PPC company. Clearly you didn’t read my post I’m now retired but I never had a PPC company, I used PPC to drive traffic to my own websites.


              I’ve read most of your posts over the years re. PPC and I really think you struggle. I imagine that when you have used it you have paid far too much because you don’t know how to use it properly. If you get somebody else to do it for you then you have to trust them to be an expert and acting in your best interest.


              Your posts show a complete lack of understanding in the Search side of things. Did you see the link I posted above? I am not promoting SEO, PPC, I am saying rummage4 are no better, even for hyper local.




              In rummage4’s marketing material they are showing #1 position in Google. I’ve shown that the term “Sell your home in Roundhay” gets zero impressions. That’s not “a by product that works exceptionally well”. It’s something they are using to promote their business and by the sound of it you have bought into the idea that it’s working exceptionally well. You must be an easy sell.


              >bear in mind this is about being hyper local


              Can you just confirm to me that if you are #1 for a term that has zero impressions in Google you understand that this will get you zero exposure and zero clicks? Please state that for the record because I’m not sure this has actually registered with you or that you doubt it in some way.


              This is where the USP of marketing hyper-local is flawed. There is no search volume from what I can see and if there was it could be matched by PPC at low cost. The way to go about this, and I’ve suggested it many times, is go to Google Adwords type in all the hyper local keywords and phrases that you think people are searching for and see homw many impressions Google estimates for them. If you find one that has a good number of impressions then snap it up with some ppc on that term. Don’t be dragged into bidding on more generic terms, you’ll just be throwing your money away.


              Go on, go away and set up an Adwords account, enter the hyper-local phrases you are interested in and see what the impressions are like. Report back and let us know.


              Could you also explain to me why you are against agents being cautious about this? Why you have encouraged them with “Imagine any search term you want on Google and you can get it first page organically and potentially number one spot” but you haven’t joined up yourself? Seems a bit odd that.







              1. smile please

                Its not about SEO or adwords.


                I have spent thousands of pounds over the years on PPC and SEO – Most companies do not understand estate agency as it not about selling houses we need them for. It is about listing houses.


                The best result we have tracked when we have done PPC is when i ran my own account. Given the local terms i want now average just shy of 3 quid i really think money is spent better elsewhere. Especially when you look at how much a meaningful click costs and that meaningful click can not be that meaningful for us as an estate agent.


                Rummage has the ability to help with SEO, it is not the main part of Rummage, But for a modest figure, well below portals, websites and probably most agents PPC budget and SEO budget. They can target the exact people you want. As many terms as you like.


                Yes the ‘Clicks’ maybe less than what a traditional PPC company can provide, but they will be more relevant and cheaper.


                Also you do not rely on the terms that Rummage give you, you give them the terms! So it i want “Estate Agents in XYZ” OR any other term i can get it. Its what I want. Thats what Robert is doing, giving the power back to estate agents.



              2. Frown Please

                Cyber Duck do you actually do anything with your time other than this?

                1. cyberduck46

                  Yes, I’m just checking back on this thread periodically. I don’t usually do it but I imagine some people know I don’t and leave it late to reply and try to discredit me 🙂

                2. Property Pundit

                  If you haven’t recognised it, he’s drowning in his own bitterness. He needs help.

      2. Anthonyw

        Hi Robert,

        maybe you should work with cyberduck or at least have him/her involved? He/she is probably looking at it in the same way I and most others are and basing everything on the snippets we read. I like seeing opposing views, to well, absolutely everything, as it is what keeps us on our toes. He/she is actually pretty good in that he/she is relentless and so is probably one of the ones that should be listened to. ‘Thorns in our sides’ are what keep us improving sometimes – please them and you win! From what I have followed, all he/she is doing is taking literally what you/others are saying and analyzing why that model is flawed. That is OK as he/she is working with what has been published if that makes sense? It isn’t his/her problem that they don’t know the entire model as he/she hasn’t been privy to it.

        I don’t know if you all know who each of you are in the real world and so maybe that helps. Cyberduck, propertypundit and a few others seem to be established on pie.

        Outside of all of that, the key thing here is people are having a go at improving things for the better, whether it is for agents, the public or both, so lets give them a chance to give their ideas a go.

        1. Robert May

          Thank you for what ought to be a sensible  suggestion regretfully,  Mr. Lawson (cyberduck46, @cyberbird001) has a very definite  fixation/agenda and, as he has mentioned and demonstrated, a difficulty communicating on an acceptable social level

          Mr Lawson has consistently and constantly posted denials of the work I have done. As an example  we have a file of thousands of false listings that were being added to a portal  in the early hours of the morning yet which were deleted a few hours later. Despite there being over 15gb of screen shot evidence  which manually verified the 12 forms of portaljuggling I identified and which are now policed by a team of 12 additional staff taken on one portal [because of the work I had done], Mr Lawson did all he could to discredit work which was accepted as correct by NTSEAT and the portals.

          The systems I am building and now providing to  agents are designed to identify false marketing claim, they are designed to prove and promote agents that operate correctly and honestly within the laws, precedents and codes of conduct that are designed to see that all agents operate cleanly and fairly.  My systems put some agents at a disadvantage and some people would prefer they didn’t.

          This story was not sanctioned by anyone at rummage4, it has provided those  with individual agendas [not only Mr Lawson] quite a lot of  salacious tittle tattle with which to cause menace. I am reassured from the comments in this thread;  customer agents agents like what we are providing and are supportive. Some people don’t  understand what we are doing and some people understand exactly what we are doing and the implications for investor funded disruption and are doing all they can to disrupt the work we’re doing.



          1. cyberduck46

            >This story was not sanctioned by anyone at rummage4
            Does it matter that it was sanctioned or not?
            “We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.”.
            This was stated at the Guild of Property Professionals conference wasn’t it? 
            Where else? What are you telling Agents behind closed doors? “smile please”‘s account of his demonstration is quite illuminating. There certainly seems to be a reluctance to discuss in open forum.

  17. cyberduck46

    >Given the local terms i want now average just shy of 3 quid


    Well finally, we have some sort of value for this part of rummage4’s offering. One they are making quite a big deal about!


    >Also you do not rely on the terms that Rummage give you, you give them the terms! So it i want “Estate Agents in XYZ” OR any other term i can get it. Its what I want. Thats what Robert is doing, giving the power back to estate agents.


    Getting into some pretty grey areas here, offering people positions in Google. See later.


    If the terms you want are worth £3 and rummage4 are giving you those terms then they’re giving you very little and this is not what people will presume from the consistent message from the advertising.


    Also Agents possibly the worst people to decide on the terms if they know nothing about internet marketing.


    Do you see the “PPC = £££” signs in their promotion video?. Perhaps this should say total expenditure £3 rather than a £££ sign next to each advert? This suggests a huge saving over PPC to me.


    Instead of saying “We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.” that they should say ““We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches worth £3 to them.”


    So they are offering an SEO service if you’re telling them the terms to rank for. They’ll be dressing these terms up in textual content and having multiple pages perhaps.


    Also let’s face it rummage4 won’t be able to give you every term you want if you don’t want or have a hyper local term.


    Also PPC much easier to add and remove terms. You don’t have to dress them up in page content like rummage4 will have to.


    Well this one really takes the biscuit “The people who have seen what the technology does know how powerful it is. They don’t know what it is doing different but R4 pulls the legs of SEO and PPC almost instantly and at almost no cost.”


    We’re talking about £3 worth of traffic here. Does that come across to you reading that? It sounds like they have discovered something nobody understands. Perhaps magic? Very powerful magic in fact. So powerful you are going to be snowed under with people listing their properties with you.


    There are more. I’ve got a feeling there’s been a gradual drip, drip, of these grandiose types of claim but I’d have to refer back to be sure I got them right.


    Something else people need to consider is Google penalties. Google don’t like people buying positions in search engines. After all, that’s what they’re selling, it’s clear from this discussion. Choose the words you want to rank for. If a site gets a certain type of penalty then it can be difficult even to find their company name in Google.


    Agents: Do your research on Google penalties.



    1. Sofa Sniper

      You’re a little bit challenged aren’t you?
      They’re not selling position, PPC or SEO. People who have seen the product are telling you they are not selling this as SEO and are not selling position yet you keep saying they are. Why are you arguing with people who know more about this than you do?  Have you seen the system, or tried it, do you know anyone who has?
      Where is this marketing material that says “we will put you on top of Google for…… 100% guaranteed”    

      1. cyberduck46

        Sofa Sniper, did you not see the screenshot from their promotional video that says “YOUR NAME HERE” at the top of Google listings?


        Of course this isn’t all they’re offering. I have seen the promotional video. I’ve read “smile please”‘s description above. But here’s the rub, they are repeatedly marketing the product on something that according to smile please is worth £3. Why do you think that is?


        I’m not commenting on anything else at this time, just this marketing strategy.


        I did say that earlier so please don’t jump to conclusions.


        >Where is this marketing material that says “we will put you on top of Google for…… 100% guaranteed”


        They don’t have to say that for their marketing to be misleading. It is all about what a customer are likely to understand. What would the average Estate Agent understand from an advert from Robert May that says “YOUR NAME HERE” at the top of the listings and big red “£££” signs.


        Or Anthony Codling saying  “We are a property finder rather than search tool, so agents benefit from our software that helps them come to the top of Google searches.”


        Do they think Anthony Codling would be talking about something that isn’t of value?


        Sofa Sniper, if it wasn’t a deliberate marketing strategy they wouldn’t keep doing it would they?


    2. htsnom79

      Sweet Jesus mother of Mary and all her little wizards, it’s really not that difficult, Robert, Peebee and other selected individuals are trying something and updating on this niche forum, you don’t know anything about agency cyberduck that is a given by your posts though I’m confident you are skilled in other areas, this is ours, if it works there is goodwill, here at least, to promote and populate, I look at AutoTrader an awful lot because I prefer cars to houses but I’m not in the market for a car I’m just interested and like to look, when I am in the market I’m AutoTrader, ebay, gumtree, aggregated classifieds, Facebook, human contacts, anywhere and everywhere soft or hard copy, we’ll put stock there, see what happens.

      1. cyberduck46

        >Sweet Jesus mother of Mary and all her little wizards, it’s really not that difficult, Robert, Peebee and other selected individuals are trying something and updating on this niche forum  
        htsnom79, I think you’re being a bit naive there. It’s called marketing.
        20,000 Agents paying at least £100 a month is at least £2M a month revenue. Anthony Codling didn’t just leave his well paid job in the City to “just trying something”.    
        Presumably when Anthony Codling was speaking at the Guild of Property Professionals it was a prepared speach saying those who sign up will be helped getting to the top of Google searches.
        That’s not going to get mentioned in the trade press is it? And who is it that reads the trade press?
        Let’s just see if it continues shall we?    


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