Agent launches online feature showing level of interest in each property

| Rosalind Renshaw

Estate agent Hatched has introduced a new feature on to its website, with a pop-up revealing how many times a particular property has been viewed online and the number of bookings for physical viewings.

The pop-up banner appears towards the bottom of the listing and is an example of ‘social proof’ messaging.

The technology is so far mostly used on hotel booking sites to show the number of bookings over the last 24 hours. The aim is to bring a sense of urgency to the process of hotel reservations.

The new feature on Hatched is currently rolling out and will be included within the standard service by next Wednesday.

Adam Day, managing director of Hatched which describes itself as a full-service online agent, said: “This is an innovation sure to be popular with sellers.

“When a potential buyer sees that a property has been seen 150 times in five days or has had 11 viewings booked, there is undoubtedly going to be a quick conversation within the household about when to book a viewing, rather than sitting on their hands considering other properties.”

But what happens to a property that receives little or no interest?

Day told us: “Hatched have created ‘rules’ so that if there are less than a certain amount of viewings, it shows how many online ‘hits’ there have been instead.

“If we get no hits whatsoever, then it won’t deliver any message and a conversation would be had with Rightmove/ Zoopla/ Primelocation and the owner, potentially.”

Day also revealed that 40% of viewings are now booked by text messaging, and that in February, Hatched had more clicks to its properties from Facebook than Rightmove.

There is an example here

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96 Comments

  1. Robert May
    April 23, 2015 at 07:11

    Yes I can see  I have had 1,000,000 hits on my property Mr. Day can you tell me when someone is going to come and have a look?

     

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  2. Stillgame
    April 23, 2015 at 07:18

    Personally I think it’s a good idea.  I believe it can help in so many ways. Even as Mr May above says.  If your property has had 1.000,000 hits and no viewings, What might that say ?

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    1. Robert May
      April 23, 2015 at 09:14

      Do you understand why a property that requires a single hit has  not been correctly valued or marketed?
      The requirement to advertise  a property is a sign of failure to market the Agency correctly. With  central office area rep agency it is a necessity; it is impossible to have satisfactory knowledge and insight into every corner of the country enough to do the job of estate agency properly other than in areas local to the main office where that knowledge and experience exists or were there is a strong rep.
      The lack of demand knowledge and the necessary reliance on the vagaries of an internet applicant data base  which is trademarked by a reliance on hits,  page views and portal assisted valuations are the very things that limit online central office Agency to nothing more than glorified  internet listing services. £200 (inc vat) is all that sort of service is worth

      Effectively Adam Day is advertising his agency is reliant on the internet for its applicants and  his marketing efficiency  is measured by an undefined measure of something.  The portals might have agents convinced hits and page view are a good thing but if  the stats from Zoopla and RM were believable and if every sale came from an internet enquiry there are 600 hits per sale (0.16%), that is so inefficient it is amateur, to compare Junk mail achieves 1:25 (4%) None of that adds up to a sensible idea let alone a good one.

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      1. interestedobserver
        April 23, 2015 at 10:28

        How are you defining hits? I thought it was retired as a traffic measurement about the time we stopped loading cassettes to play Donkey Kong on our Vic 20’s (I’m expecting an old school geek to tell me DK wasn’t available on the Vic 20!)

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        1. Robert May
          April 23, 2015 at 11:02

          I am not defining hits, page views or anything else, just using the figures supplied this week by both Rightmove and Zoopla in their separate PR releases.  If there is no definitive explanation of what everyone is separately reporting, hits remains  just as  valid or invalid as everything else.  Until the numbers are tangible, measurable and assignable they will remain smoke and mirrors whatever they are called.

           

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  3. smile please
    April 23, 2015 at 07:27

    What happens if 10 viewings still on the market? Seems like encouraging a low offer, not really in the best interests of the seller who you are suppose to be working for!

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    1. Stillgame
      April 23, 2015 at 07:44

      Depending where you live, 10 viewings on a property in North Yorkshire where I am is not unheard of, but I see your point say if a property has been on 4 months with 20 viewings. But an offer is an offer, a basis for negotiation. It’s a bit like all the sold prices and length on market which is displayed by RMZ etc.  where do you start and stop?. Sellers might not want it but buyers do.

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      1. Ric
        April 23, 2015 at 08:17

        “Sellers might not want it but buyers do.”

        Who are you acting for Stillgame? The buyers or the vendors?

        If the information was not there on the page and the buyer wanted to know, your office phone would ring or your door open and the question would be asked! Less can be more?

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        1. Stillgame
          April 24, 2015 at 07:19

          I act for the buyers of course and I want to encourage as much interest in their house as possible and I’m not an online agent but I’m not against them either. It’s a free market isn’t it, they offer their service and we offer ours. He is trying something different for estate agency and I will be interested to see how successful or not it is.  I just prefer to be an optimist rather than a pessimist with the “what ifs” .

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          1. Ric
            April 24, 2015 at 08:38

            Never said you were an “online” agent, although I suspect if you have a website you are!! Equally; look back through my posts and my reply to Adam…. I am ALL FOR competition and have no issues with “online ONLY” agents…… I have even said let em on OTM who cares.

            My point is the feature can be more harmful than good in my opinion! That’s all…. but as I said to him, well done for trying something different, I applaud his replies yesterday also – (although not read any further than this so far, so I may take that bit back shortly!)

            You do have a website though don’t you 😉

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          2. PeeBee
            April 24, 2015 at 09:58

            “I act for the buyers of course and I want to encourage as much interest in their house as possible…”

            Erm… do you want to review and correct that statement?

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            1. Stillgame
              April 25, 2015 at 06:34

              yes Peebee I do, sorry was typing whilst having my breakfast. I mean seller.

              i do have a website, and I agree with you on letting the online only agents on OTM as I believe its success will hinge on its content, you need all the agents on it.

              If RMZ adopt this then we will have no choice in the matter and they will do what they can to get more people using their website.

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              1. Ric
                April 25, 2015 at 08:31

                Morning Stillgame – If RMZ adopt what? The Hatched feature you mean? If they did, it would be a real play into the hands of OTM I reckon!

                In fact I would love RM to do it, as this would be a perfect opportunity to tell vendors why being on RM is no good…. I think RM know to leave it in the background for the “agents” to use when they see fit though.

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  4. Jonnie
    April 23, 2015 at 07:53

    I like it, let’s all have a look when it’s up and running and go from there? Jonnie

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  5. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
    April 23, 2015 at 08:28

    I’m amazed again by the negativity of some (although I shouldn’t be that amazed)

    No one can deny that when they see a message pop up regarding a hotel room, that they feel more of a sense of urgency to book the room – it is a proven tool to work at increasing bookings. We have created the equivalent for homeowners and as far as I can see, we are the first in the world to adopt this type of feature for sellers. It’s sure to increase activity on the clients property – more viewings, more competition, a higher price…

    We won’t always be delivering the same message. If the client has had zero viewings, then the message that will be delivered will be the number of clicks on the property in the last 7 days (I don’t have a single property on our site with zero clicks on it) – it will be worded to say something along the lines of ’25 viewings of this property online in the last 7 days’. Again, worded to encourage people to make an enquiry. (If we do have a property with zero clicks (one just on the market, for example), then no message will appear at all.)

    We have spent the last 9 years being accused of just ‘putting the property on Rightmove and waiting for the phone to ring’. We have now addressed that issue with firstly the social and digital marketing pack which pro actively targets buyers and now, what is effectively the online alternative to a neg phoning up saying “I’ve got 4 other people viewing this at the weekend, so you’d better arrange a viewing” (which was my first job in estate agency 18 years ago, and which rarely happens any more, by the way), yet we are still getting criticism for a clear innovation, which raises the bar in the industry, adopting and developing technology which is clearly going to benefit the seller.

    I think the doubters have to realise that this is the way it’s going, and using technology is what the consumer wants – whether buyer or seller.

    We’re obviously acting for the seller and in the busines of selling houses, which is why this feature is great – because it will benefit the seller by creating more interest in their property and perhaps, in the odd situation, a higher price than anyone else would achieve.

    And I don’t think anyone should be criticising that.

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    1. RealAgent
      April 23, 2015 at 08:36

      Well I think its a fabulous idea Adam. “Oh look that property has only had three viewings in the last 4 weeks, well let’s clobber them with a ridiculously low offer then darling”

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      1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
        April 23, 2015 at 08:38

        Deary me…We don’t deliver a message like that. It is only what has happened in the last 7 days (either physical viewings, or clicks as long as they are over a certain amount) and how many physical viewings there are in the next 7 days.

        We’re not daft. Geez…

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        1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
          April 23, 2015 at 08:39

          Or the last 14 days as well actually – again, as long as the numbers look good enough.

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          1. RealAgent
            April 23, 2015 at 08:53

            So really what you are saying then is as long as the property is getting absolutely loads of interest you will show how many viewings it has had…..#pointless

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            1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
              April 23, 2015 at 09:06

              Not at all. If it getting low-medium amounts of interest but hasn’t quite hit the heights, then the social proof messages will drive more enquiries and therefore more viewings. I have already said that none of our properties are getting zero clicks, so there should always be some sort of message there encouraging people to enquire/view.

              It’s certainly not going to hurt the owners of chances of selling – if it improves their chances by 1%, then I will deliver it to the customer, so I don’t see how it can be pointless.

              But then that’s the difference between estate agents like mine, and estate agents like yours – we develop new tools and technology to create that extra 1% interest in our clients properties….. #alwaysinnovating

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              1. interestedobserver
                April 23, 2015 at 10:36

                Social Proof is a massively powerful concept. Once established it’s a serious competitive advantage. I agree that just because something works in Market A it won’t work in Market B but that said it’s an element of innovation to the Property market whilst also giving the user a familiar experience. Fast Functional and Familiar are stalwarts of decent user experience. AirBNB do a similar thing. You will always have a 100 reasons not to do something, I think it’s great to see you sticking your neck out and letting the market decide if it’s valued or not.  Good luck with this and any other ideas you roll out.

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                1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
                  April 23, 2015 at 11:55

                  Thank you interestedobserver. I’ve got a few more up my sleeve 🙂

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        2. Ric
          April 23, 2015 at 09:01

          Good morning Adam. I think the fact you are trying to “add something new and different” is great, we are always thinking that way and to be different is good but getting harder and harder, when focus is on the online advertising.

          however…and only my opinion….. it is too easily open to a smart agent using it on your vendors against you! The longer they remain unsold the easier it is to suggest to another agents vendor this type of thing is potentially stopping the office phone from ringin and the SALES staff doing their bit. Even a weeks stats can be used against you.

          The hotel industry is not the right “it works for them so it can for us” comparable in my opinion! There is no denying that the hotel industry can use a “Hurry up and pay now” message and yes how many people did have a sense of urgency when they noticed “1 room left” (I have) but this is not the message your giving is it…… Your site will not say “1 opportunity left to buy this home and if you do not do so in the next hour whilst sat at your computer you will lose the chance to buy the home”

          As far as I see it, you are just showing RM plus stats in a shortened fancy way…… and we all know not to harp on about those….3,000 hits, 78 brochures, 14 viewings etc.

          Good luck with it…. but like Z who display page hits, I find it very easy to use this kind of thing against the agent.

          Keeping your powder dry so to speak can be a powerful old tool.

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      2. The Outsider
        April 23, 2015 at 08:44

        Sounds like you’re worried that your properties sell themselves at the moment and that you might have to do some work.

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        1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
          April 23, 2015 at 08:48

          Yes, 80% of them sell themselves at the moment. But we want to sell 100% of them if we can.

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    2. PeeBee
      April 23, 2015 at 08:57

      “And I don’t think anyone should be criticising that.”

      And do you know what, Mr Day – I actually agree with that sentence.

      BUT… and it’s a big BUT… the question is still whether this ‘new feature’ of yours WILL benefit the seller.  You’re not flogging hotel rooms or hawking budget flights here, Mr Day.  They are throwaway items, needed for a few hours or a couple of weeks at best and maybe there are some people who get all clammy thinking that “Seventeen trillion other people are currently looking at this” or that “Ninety people have booked in the last four seconds” – personally I see it as marketing ******** and ignore it… and when you go on the site an hour later the same numbers get chucked at you again and the same number of seats/rooms are still being hawked.

      The main issue is that this ‘feature’ will only be available on your own website, of course – and that is NOT where people are looking.  It won’t have a chance to create the moistness you envisage UNLESS people actually visit your own website – and if they’ve seen it on one of the portals you rely on so heavily the chances are that they will pick up one of those outdated methods of communication we used to call a “telephone” and, believe it or not, wish to verbally interact with another human being who, they will reasonably expect, should then be able to impart salient information relating to the property to the enquirer, how popular that property is and why they should view it.

      Pity it’s that part of the process that will undoubtedly let your technological wizardry/gimmickery/billshuttery (delete where appropriate) sadly down, innit?

      But as far as coming up with a cutesy idea and gaining some more free publicity – well done.  Nice for you to be able to show The Quirkster and all the other Onlinies you don’t need a Marketing Minion/PR Guru to get you noticed…

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      1. PeeBee
        April 23, 2015 at 09:00

        Oh, sorry – just spotted a mistake.  You haven’t actually ‘come up’ with an idea – you’ve just polished a t*rd (credit: Jonnie) and put your badge on it.

        The rest’s pretty much bang on, though…

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      2. interestedobserver
        April 23, 2015 at 10:42

        ‘ we used to call a “telephone” and, believe it or not, wish to verbally interact with another human being who, they will reasonably expect, should then be able to impart salient information relating to the property to the enquirer, how popular that property is and why they should view it.’

        You say this like it’s a given agents do this. And yet buyers and sellers in their droves will tell you this isn’t the case. I think the public under estimate what a tough job estate agency can be almost as much as estate agents under estimate how often they really, really p**s customers on both sides of the selling process off by NOT ‘.impart (ing) salient information relating to the property to the enquirer, how popular that property is and why they should view it.’

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    3. Robert May
      April 23, 2015 at 09:24

      I am happy to explore what you are describing as negativity. I have a property I want to sell in North Devon, please describe how  you are going to value it, what applicants you have looking in North Devon and what success you have previously had in the area.  It is a 2 bed 1993  Sharman semi, no garage, 750 sqft, in  top top order. As the vendor I am happy to do this publicly.  So what is it worth and who have you got looking?

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      1. Robert May
        April 23, 2015 at 10:38

        Over an hour to respond to a potential vendor Mr Day, is this typical of your service levels?

        I am 100% serious,about selling, this is a genuine instruction, no trap I am going to do this on your terms but out in the open. Let’s have full transparency so you can demonstrate how good your service is.

        You published this story to get publicity to win instructions I was making it easy for you, but as time goes by your failure to respond will work against you.

         

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        1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
          April 23, 2015 at 11:53

          I have been on appointments Robert. I do apologise.

          If you would like to fill out our market appraisal form, then I will get someone to call you to arrange for one of our reps to come out at a convenient time to value the property, free of charge and with no obligation.

          https://www.hatched.co.uk/sell/free-valuation

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          1. Robert May
            April 23, 2015 at 12:18

            Thank you for coming back to me Adam.

            Ahead of a free valuation  I want to  be in dialogue with someone. Where is the nearest rep based? what have they sold in North Devon in the past 3 months? Are they able to ball park a value ahead of coming  45 miles off the nearest motorway. I have given you enough information to identify where the property is and what it is and at this stage I am assessing who to get round. I have short listed 3 local agents, have dismissed Purplebricks because  they falsly advertise a 24 hour service using only Agency trained staff so here is your chance to demonstrate your service.

            I have to say I am a bit miffed you don’t want to deal with me yourself, none of the partners of the local firms have asked me to fill in a form and told me one of their staff will be in touch but I accept there is distance involved.

            I don’t live at the property and will not be doing any viewings.

             

             

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            1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
              April 23, 2015 at 12:34

              That’s the way it works with us I’m afraid Robert. If that is not acceptable to you, then unfortunately, we would not be able to help you and would not want to take your instructions.

              Moreover, I am unable to give all of our clients my personal time as we have an organisation that deals with thousands of property sales per year and as per a standard 15-20 office estate agency, it is impossible for the MD of an agency of this size to dedicate his personal expertise to every property – this would have been one of those cases, where I wouldn’t have been able to do that, so again, if this is the sort of thing you are looking for, then perhaps a local one man estate agency would be best suited for your sale.

              Thank you for your time in enquiring about our services though and I wish you all the best with selling the property.

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              1. Robert May
                April 23, 2015 at 13:31

                Slightly strange reply Adam,  you have got time to argue (quite a lot) with anonymous posters on the internet but when asked 2 reasonable questions  about your service you won’t/ can’t answer them and chose to get all…. whatever.
                I didn’t say I was insisting on your personal attention I said I was miffed that your reply after  2 1/2 hours was “fill the form in and a rep will be in touch” that isn’t the  way to deal with anyone  let alone on an instruction where you are being asked to demonstrate the  strength of your offering.
                The problem I thought you would highlight is that without an address to look up on Zoopla  neither you or the reps can even begin to assess value. The local agents know what  Sharmans were building and where in 1993 and from the description and size it’s address. I suspect you don’t have a register of applicants looking to buy in North Devon and can not for  £*** provide the level of service I need.  I can’t begin to imagine where the nearest rep is based but the cost of the appraisal in time and travel will make it unviable from the outset.
                When you compare your position to a firm with 15-20 offices what does that mean? Do you have 100 staff in 15-20 locations or 5 local staff and then 15 area reps?

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                1. Robert May
                  April 23, 2015 at 15:31

                  I have to say that simply ignoring   people with property to  sell is a real strange way of carrying on. You might not like or agree with what I have to say but I was prepared to instruct your agency. In not replying you simply harm both your personal reputation and that of your firm and in doing so the income of all involved with you. You have an obligation to deal professionally with objections it isn’t just yourself who you are representing.

                   

                   

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                  1. PeeBee
                    April 23, 2015 at 21:04

                    Robert – allow me to quote directly from Mr Day’s website as to how they will “value” your property:

                    “We are able to provide you with a guide as to what your home is worth based on land registry figures and other estate agents web sites”.  They also recommend “…that you carry out some of your own research as to the value of your home – Ask your neighbours what they bought their home for, look in the local property paper and check out the internet for any direct competition to your home.”

                    I’m sure their “local and knowledgeable regional consultant” would be happy to go through their recommendations for marketing price with you in depth, of course…

                    As they summarise – “We have experienced local estate agents covering your area, with invaluable local knowledge.”

                    They just don’t want you to know who they are or what “invaluable local knowledge” they have to offer in order to sell your greatest asset…

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                    1. Robert May
                      April 23, 2015 at 22:08

                      I wasn’t thinking of flogging off my integrity Peebee, but I know what you mean.
                      I was hoping for a bit more of a discussion with Mr Day and work him around to realising he would be far better off sticking with being his own self contained hybrid agency for now and developing a system that works and is respected for working before attempting a model that is logistically and financially flawed.
                      We have a good online agent here, she literally owns the market in 3 villages achieving prices many have scoffed at and thought/think un-achievable.  Working from home  she sold £17,000,000 of property last year at good normal  commission levels.  If Adam can get to  her level of operation and respect I could see him being able to franchise that, but I can’t see  the reverse trading ever catching on with  people capable of running their own local operation.   Europe’s biggest Agent is trying  that but their register shows very thin pickings for the local reps.
                      As you have prompted me into a reply I might as well mention that I have been here before with Hound, just before he went on holiday to a Folk festival in Dorset last year we were discussing valuation, he went quiet when I said at the time  central office area rep online agents couldn’t  value to the accuracy of local base agent.  Given the conversation and similarity with this discussion I have to wonder if Hound works for Adam  as one of the local reps. That would explain the support for  client briefing model that has been a standard part of SAAS systems since last century but which never really floated any agent’s boat that I can remember from countless  software demos.
                      Bench marking good ideas from other sectors is standard practice but as has already been pointed out some ideas are not transposable. Attempting to retain an instruction based on a number no-one can or will explain is unlikely to win over any grumpy vendor frustrated at a lack of tangible sales activity.

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          2. PeeBee
            April 23, 2015 at 13:34

            “…I will get someone to call you to arrange for one of our reps to come out at a convenient time to value the property…”

            Ahhh – THAT old cherry.  THAT thorny issue that on at least three occasions you have sidestepped or otherwise buried your head in whatever and pretended I hadn’t asked.

            Well… seeing as we now seem to have your attention once again, I will repeat my questions and hope that the long overdue answer be forthcoming:

            “you apparently state “We have fully trained employees that visit and meet with clients at their properties, face to face. They measure up and take photos at every single property we market.”

            Champion. That being the case, please allow me to put to you the following REAL SCENARIO. I live within 5 miles of Newcastle upon Tyne City centre. Without naming names:

            1. HOW CLOSE to my location does your employee live?
            2. HOW CLOSE to my location does your employee work?
            3. WHAT AREA does your employee cover?
            4. WHAT EXPERIENCE does your employee have in selling property in MY location?
            5. WHAT TRAINING has THAT employee received – who by, and when?”

            Am I to receive an answer, Mr Day, THIS TIME?

            Seeing as this relates back to a post dated 2 August 2014, and has been repeated at least twice since, I somehow doubt it…

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    4. smile please
      April 23, 2015 at 09:38

      Think this shows how removed from agency you really are Adam, Basically if an applicant is interested on a viewing all they are looking to do is look for a way to negotiate a reduction in price and if the property has had 3 or 40 viewings they will use this as a way to justify why they are offering X amount.

      In no way does this help the seller.

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  6. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
    April 23, 2015 at 09:20

    PeeBee, I noticed you registered on our website the other day. You didn’t give us your correct details, so we were unable to help you sell your property 😉

    Thank you for the comment. You are indeed correct that we need people into our site to get the traction on this feature.

    And this is exactly our strategy, as it should be everyone’s strategy: to drive traffic to your site, not to the portals.

    The social proof messaging will work best for clients if they choose our social and digital marketing package which targets people on Google & Facebook and drives traffic to our site. Once in our site, then I think there will be urgency created and a viewing can then be booked using our automated text messaging feature.

    As I said earlier, this is the equivalent of a neg saying “there are 4 other people interested in viewing the property, so you better book something in now”. It worked then, it now works as an online message for hotels and it will work for our clients in terms of increasing enquiries and viewings.

    As I said to someone earlier, if I can increase my clients’ chances of selling by just 1%, (even by just 0.1%), then I will try to develop it and introduce it – nothing wrong with that and again, it amazes me that anyone criticises that strategy.

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    1. PeeBee
      April 23, 2015 at 09:59

      “…it now works as an online message for hotels…”

      Hitting an ailing 1965 Landrover with a big hammer “works”… SOMETIMES.  The vast majority of times it is simply a waste of effort.

      “…we need people into our site to get the traction on this feature.  And this is exactly our strategy”

      There is NO strategy here, Mr Day.  You are simply building a feature into your website that if you are lucky one in a thousand will see.

      BUT… it’s given you something to shout about and we all know you’re not a shy boy in that respect…

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  7. Paul H
    April 23, 2015 at 11:10

    Well done for facing the gauntlet on this Adam.

    Personally I can’t see the benefit to your clients (sellers/landlords). But I do see it as a great way to get a price reduction (should you be that way inclined!), especially if a property is not selling and has been on the market for months.

    It could also highlight the fact that your doing a bad job, but then again the job of an online agent is simply to list properties, it’s not as though you have a database to call from. And this leads me to believe that this tool will make it more easier to lay blame on to vendors/landlords especially if they are under the impression that you only need to list properties on a few portals to sell their home.

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  8. Hound
    April 23, 2015 at 12:03

    How does it benefit the seller, well, that should be apparent to all you experts here. The agents job is to get the best POSSIBLE price, and if a prospective buyer can see that a property has had 20 viewings but no offers and makes a low offer on that basis, perhaps that is the best POSSIBLE price, as for some reason, the previous 20 viewers did not want to buy!

     

    If the property has been ‘viewed’ online frequently, but no actual viewings, then there is obviously an issue and a conversation with the seller is needed, so again another potential benefit to the seller.

     

    and Paul H, what makes you think that Adam does not have a database of buyers? Buyers register on the Hatched website! Where do those buyers come from, exactly the same source as yours, advertising!

     

    Well done Adam, a nice and useful feature.

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    1. Robert May
      April 23, 2015 at 12:42

      With respect if a property has 10 viewings and no offers the initial advice and marketing was incorrect. I am not an expert and I am not currently an  Agent but I do have enough qualification and experience to have been a FNAEA  in addition to which enough understanding of  property valuation methodology  to develop residential and commercial software systems. External applicant registers are  one of three sets of data that should be considered  for valuation and of the 3 it is the most transient and uncertain. because it is unknown at the point of valuation it should be ignored for the purposes of advice on value.

       

       

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    2. wardy
      April 23, 2015 at 13:41

      ”If the property has been ‘viewed’ online frequently, but no actual viewings, then there is obviously an issue and a conversation with the seller is needed”

      Not necessarily Hound, what if the property is the the correct price but its the shoddy marketing that isn’t converting the viewings? How can you advise a client to reduce when the advert looks pants?

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    3. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
      April 23, 2015 at 13:49

      Thanks Hound 🙂

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      1. PeeBee
        April 23, 2015 at 21:49

        Looks like you’ve got at least ONE fwend, Mr Day.

        Good old Hound – always seems to be the one to jump into his F-15 to be your wingman.

        From one who was stating just a few months ago that you were ‘leaning’ towards a move towards online sometime in the future, you now give the impression you’ve waded in right up to the ‘nads, Hound.  Care to enlighten?

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    4. Ric
      April 24, 2015 at 08:47

      Hey Hound…. I’ve got a property, been on for 4 weeks, NO VIEWINGS!! Owners have been poorly “unexpectedly” and now better……. will it say “0 viewings” but then explain this is with good reason? We could defend both corners to some extent, however behind every stat there is possibly a story which is MUCH MORE vital than what the stat suggests.

      I have one property which is close to 30 viewings in 1 week and NO OFFERS! What does this tell you?

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  9. wilko
    April 23, 2015 at 13:05

    @ Adam Day….I have read your comments today and, like most here, find it really refreshing that you have taken your time to comment. Although I think that your model is one of the better onlinies out there I can’t see how this latest innovation is actually of real benefit to your sellers and is perhaps innovation for innovations’ sake?.

    If you are saying that making viewings ( are they physically carried out or just made?) numbers available to buyers is important then, as per your hotel scenario, why don’t you make the feedback from previous viewers available as well, bearing in mind that info would surely be more beneficial to buyers….wouldn’t it ?

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    1. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
      April 23, 2015 at 13:47

      Thank you Wilko. And thank you for the kind-ish comments 😉

      I’m simply saying that revealing viewing numbers to buyers is going to create more urgency in that buyer, so that is a benefit to the seller, not the buyer. People want others already want or have – that’s why it’s called social proof.

      It has crossed my mind to publish feedback from other viewers online, but I don’t think this is to the benefit of our clients. So we wouldn’t do that.

      We’re employed to sell houses at the highest price possible. And that means getting people through the door to view the property. This tool is doing exactly that and is trying to increase the number of viewings. It may need some tweaking here and there over time, but we’ll see.

      This property here *could be* an example of it working perfectly – https://www.hatched.co.uk/for-sale/15993/the-avenues-norwich

      We listed it a week ago and it has been one of the properties that we have added the social proof messaging to. It was suggested by local agents to ask no more than £550k. We have already had 41 viewings on it, PLUS the 8 that are to come (you can see the rules working with the messaging, as it only delivers the viewings in the future, not those that have taken place in the past, therefore increasing competition and viewing requests).

       

      Coincidence? Maybe? Underpriced? Perhaps – but then that was the top valuation by local agents…

      Either way, time will tell. If we start to drive a higher number of viewings on our properties in the near future, then it will be proven to be working effectively for our customers, which is the point of it.

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      1. wilko
        April 23, 2015 at 14:13

        Thanks for the reply. I can see that it could work providing it had restraints put on it. The seller could get increased interest if, say in it’s 1st week, it had 6 viewings booked and had a flash saying “be quick 6 viewings booked for the weekend” but that may make others that have had either loads of viewings or none at all look like “non sellers”?.

        If I were to sell through Hatched then I would get 4 or 5 friends to register to “view” to make the most of the feature.

        Lastly, I do think that hatched is a far better presented online agent than the others because it doesn’t use its website to say how bad high street agents are, but does detail what you offer. This is something that most other onlinies haven’t worked out. The successful online agents of the future will market themselves alongside the services of high street agents rather than simply saying high street agents are a waste of money.

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        1. Paul H
          April 23, 2015 at 14:27

          “If I were to sell through Hatched then I would get 4 or 5 friends to register to “view” to make the most of the feature.”…Wilko’s made a very good point here and opened up a potential can of worms, as this could also mean that a property could be made to look more desirable then what it actually is just in the same way someone could give themself a fake review on review site.

          How will this be policed?

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      2. PeeBee
        April 24, 2015 at 09:46

        “Underpriced? Perhaps – but then that was the top valuation by local agents…”

        Sorry?  What about YOUR “Local Agent”?  Didn’t he/she put a “value” on the property?

        “We listed it a week ago… We have already had 41 viewings on it, PLUS the 8 that are to come…”

        Erm… and no sale?

        Don’t tell me – you’re currently going through 49 sealed bids…

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    2. PeeBee
      April 23, 2015 at 14:05

      wilko – “Although I think that your model is one of the better onlinies out there…” You forget something – the model ISN’T an online one – take this from an EYE article in August last year: “Day said: “People call Hatched an online estate agent, but the description does not do us justice. It leads people to believe that we offer a less personal service or work solely behind our screens… He said he would prefer the term “21st century estate agents”.” The irony of the above – this new gizmo is EXACTLY the opposite of what he states above. LESS personal.  MORE hiding behind technology. D.D.D.S. (search s.s.d.d. and figure out the slight difference, if you’re not a Stephen King fan…) Anyway – here’s Mr Day’s new ‘in’ word:  INconsistency.

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      1. wilko
        April 23, 2015 at 14:19

        Like I’ve just said, they have one of the better models (on paper/web) and they don’t simply base their model on the wrong assumption that everyone thinks high st agents are unprofessional con men. I don’t know if the customer experience is always good with Hatched (there are always those that will have a “good” experience I guess) but if they really can deliver the service they describe on the website – for the price, then they are bound to do well.

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        1. PeeBee
          April 23, 2015 at 21:41

          “…and they don’t simply base their model on the wrong assumption that everyone thinks high st agents are unprofessional con men.”

          REALLY, wilko?  THIS is the sort of ******** that litters the website:

          “If you get a high street agent to value the property, they will typically take an hour waffling on about how brilliant they are and how deserving they are of their exorbitant fee (please don’t believe a word of it). They will then disappear and pester you with marketing bumpf and regular, irritating phone calls.”;

          “And if you don’t want to accept an offer that is lower than you really want, then we will never pressure or advise based on us earning a ridiculous fee, whereas, sad as it is to say, some high street agents, that offer a ‘no sale, no fee’ service, will.”;

          “…if you decide to go on the market with a high street agent, you will have to get them back out to measure up and take photos and then listen to another load of waffle about what car they drive and what five star holiday they will be going on this year. This will take up another hour of your life.”

          I’d ask you to review your statement, wilko!

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          1. wilko
            April 24, 2015 at 10:12

            “I’d ask you to review your statement, wilko!”…….Or read all the “waffle” next time!………Having said that, we all know high street agents that do fit this description.

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  10. Adam Day - Hatched.co.uk
    April 23, 2015 at 13:48

    People want, *what* others already want or have – that’s why it’s called social proof

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  11. Woodentop
    April 23, 2015 at 18:45

    Please, please come to my area. For every property that you get poor results we will gladly call on the vendor to advise them that they are obviously using the wrong agent!

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  12. PeeBee
    April 23, 2015 at 22:53

    Rather than this be lost in the posts above – in his response to Robert May, Mr Day stated

    “…we have an organisation that deals with thousands of property sales per year…”

    Erm… according to your website, Mr Day, the ‘sales‘ timeline goes something like this:

    First 100 sales – just over a year from ‘opening’

    Approximately 3.5 years later – first 500 sales milestone (you had listed your 1000th house just under a year earlier – so the success rate at this point appears to be under one-in-two…

    Some two-and-a-bit years later, the 1000th sale is notched up.  (you had by this time listed over 3000 – down to one in three successes…)

    A year-and-a-bit later you completed the 2000th.

    Just under a year later (and eight years from the date of the company ‘hatching’…), another 1000 completions notched up – 3000 now.  Things are speeding up for you – but then of course they were speeding up for us all as the market was waaaay better in 2013/4 than the previous several before them… and by this time you’d listed over 6000 properties – so STILL under a 50% success rate. (so… when above you state “…80% of them sell themselves at the moment…”, you mean 80% of 50%, I take it?)

    You expect to hit 4000 completed sales sometime early in 2015, apparently.   You’re already well over 7000 instructed properties.

    The point of this examination?

    It simply ain’t what you claim above, Mr Day.

    Please feel free to tell me I’m wrong – and how.  Far as I can see – I’m simply quoting YOUR OWN statistics.

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    1. Robert May
      April 24, 2015 at 07:01

      ouch! The difference being he is paid on every single property he lists so selling property isn’t actually the game he is in,  completions are the jam and not the bread and butter.  So where in agency those that do sell are paying for those that don’t sell, the argument online agents use to knock traditional fee levels.  With this model everyone who lists is subsidising those who luck favours and actually have a sale go through.

      Looking at the numbers you have produced Peebee they are not far off expected averages only an awful lot of money has been spent  not selling.

       

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  13. JAM01
    April 24, 2015 at 05:01

    This in principle is a good idea – similar to the Rightmove Plus function for Branch average and individual property hits and conversions. It is good for the vendor to be able to see, but I would keep it as a back-office function, visible ONLY to the vendor, who can monitor levels of interest in their property and, if a poor conversion rate with a lack of buyers viewing the full details/media tours etc and lack of viewings, then this gives good data for recommending a price reduction to boost viewings and ultimately a sale. Advertising the stats to all and sundry will not benefit the vendor, just giving ammunition to those who see lots of interest, no sale and gear up for a low offer. So, good idea, but keep it off-radar and accessible only for the vendors.

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    1. Robert May
      April 24, 2015 at 06:43

      Slow movers or  GVL functionality is a good idea but it isn’t something that needs sharing with vendors, every vendor knows what is and isn’t happening, they are the ones sat there excitedly expecting a phone call text or email to tidy up, someone is coming. It is the agent with multiple properties and the day to day hubbub of an office that loses sight of the activity on individual properties.  Slow movers reporting was introduced into Estate Agency software in 1995 which  goes to show how innovative and cutting edge this is.  Mind you I never thought to include VFD stats which are the old school equivalent of  hits or visits (meaningless numbers)
      I am not knocking idea of slow movers reporting but  think a good agent will be using such reports proactively so a vendor never gets to the point of being a slow mover or grumpy.
      This idea is not wrong and although I wouldn’t share it with vendors that is a decision for each agent but the way it has been presented here is that it is simply tool to adjust an asking price that was incorrect in the first place by sort of getting the vendor to work out the Zoopla val was as an agent knows just a random number.

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  14. PeeBee
    April 24, 2015 at 09:24

    OKAYYY… I’ve got fed up of waiting.  EIGHT MONTHS is a long time by any standards, and although I’ve been patiently waiting for a lot longer for that elusive Lottery jackpot, I thought that was simply because the odds were stacked too highly against me.  I never thought the same would be true about being told where my nearest “Local Representative” is in relation to my property.

    But, do you know what it is – I’d have kept waiting if it wasn’t for Mr Day’s lack of customer care to Robert May.  He was engaging with a genuine prospective customer – and told him to fill out an online form and “someone” – office junior perhaps? – would call Robert to make an appointment.  What level of care; what interest in the needs of the customer – and how low can a bar possibly be set for other agents to have to have to hurdle in order to win that instruction!

    So… when I was ‘statting’ last night, I found the following information for you, Robert:

    They opened their office in Exeter in 2010 (it was their first ‘Regional Office’, apparently.  The people of the South West have been ‘saved’ in excess of £1.5 million since that date, apparently.  Now – it does state that they have “increased their presence in the region since” – but doesn’t expand on that, so you will just need to assume their “Local Representative” is there or thereabouts.

    NOW… I don’t know exactly where J W Sharman built – but I see their office is in Barnstaple – so as it is the major conurbation for the purposes of this exercise let’s assume it is in the town somewhere.  Exeter to Barnstaple is, I see, a journey of around 46 miles – and takes about 70 minutes (credit: iDevon website) – but of course this could be out by several miles (and minutes) either way dependent on exact locations.

    Sorry but the individuals’ experience is not so easily distinguishable on the website – IF it is the chap who is down as “South Regional Consultant”, then he’s got seventeen years under his belt but you’d need to confirm that and the other detail I mentioned.

    Hope the above is in some way helpful, Robert – but I am approximately 340 miles away so I am relying on information gleaned from the internet.  It could all be complete MDT, of course (I would hope, however, that Mr Day would be gracious enough to correct me, if that be the case…).

    Hey – wouldn’t it be a great idea to create a business model that works on exactly THAT principle – blag some info off the web and use it to sound like you’re really wanting to help people – but offer it so cheap they’re hardly likely to moan when it doesn’t produce expected results…

    I’m gonna look into that.

    Oh – by the way – MY nearest “Consultant” apparently is in LEEDS – “…and covers the Northern part of the North”, according to the website.  That’s ONE BIG patch…

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    1. Robert May
      April 24, 2015 at 10:38

      Thank you for all that effort Peebee, don’t be so quick to mock the idea, you are closer to winning the instruction than the chap who is relying on Adam to help win him business!
      Exeter to Barnstaple is 57 miles using the safe route, the A377 is falling into the river again and if you went the short way you would need to get the tracking re-set at each end of the journey ( there are apparently undiscovered tribes   living in that valley too) 114 miles is £50 in motoring costs so with travel time and an hours appointment that is half a day spent on competing for an instruction. By anyone’s book that is a big ask and given the  odds of winning and selling I simply can not see anyone being fool enough to do that even if they were getting every penny of the  fee let alone paying *** away to  Adam.
      This is big rub for self employed (?) agents working for a central office firm that relies on Rightmove and Zoopla to access it’s audience; both portals are more about the portal than the Agent, listings are  thinly enough spread for local agents but the spread becomes gossamer thin for an agent who has properties dotted across a region.  In effect there is no  meaningful branding, presence or awareness, the listings are there but in micro volumes. I simply can not see how the fees charged  cover the cost and chances of winning an instruction let alone support a full service agency and therefore why anyone would effectively work as a  sub agent.  Surely the people good enough to be good are good enough to do it for themselves.

      I am struggling with the  claim of saving vendors £1.5 million; given the average price of property and the average agents commission locally the biggest saving possible by Hatched is  £1000 per property . To be able to claim to have saved the vendors in the South West £1.5 million they must have sold   1500 average properties at £600 a pop.As you are aware I can access the Rightmove back catalogue of stuff sold or withdrawn, there are not 1500 properties showing up with Hatched as the selling agent.
      Unlike you Adam Day is not my competition I have no reason to challenge his claims  other than on the basis they don’t hold water,  I don’t like the feeling I am being lied to, and that is I exactly how I feel with such inconceivable claims.

      As a post script I have to say I can’t work out how come you are picking on  Adam when you let your other mate  completely off the hook on Wednesday, I kept looking into see roasted quirk and jury but it never happened.

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      1. PeeBee
        April 24, 2015 at 14:47

        “I have to say I can’t work out how come you are picking on  Adam when you let your other mate  completely off the hook on Wednesday…”

        Simples, really, Robert – I was busy elsewhere and you lot did such a good job in my absence there was little to add to the discussion.

        Anyway – The Quirkster is still working on the figures I asked for so I don’t want to pile the grief on him TOO thick – do I? ;o)

        (note to Mr Day, perhaps – spew out all your MDT on a Wednesday in future… )

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  15. Max_Rockatansky
    April 24, 2015 at 10:18

    First time I’ve commented on the site having been an avid reader since it began.

    Have to say some of the comments on here seem a little skewed. The whole article originated as what appears to me as a decent marketing tool which, if utilised in the right way, could benefit both buyers and sellers. Whether it will be utilised in the right way is a different conversation! It seems to have gone off track a little though and now I’m wading through all this cr*p about valuations of properties in deepest Devon.

    Peebee – to be fair to Hatched, Emoov, Purple etc having read previous comments directed towards them from yourself and Mr May there is more chance of me riding Shergar to the National next year with DB Cooper as my trainer than Mr May ever instructing one of them to sell his house so I can understand their logic on not wanting to engage in a conversation on a valuation in a public space.

    Not wanting to be disrespectful Peebee but some of the comments on here in last 24 hours have been a little churlish. And before you ask – no I don’t work for an online agent. I’m just someone with industry experience who sees a place for both High St and online in the marketplace.

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    1. Robert May
      April 24, 2015 at 11:35

      You are absolutely right, I won’t instruct anyone who tries to hoodwink me.  Purplebricks were given an opportunity to sell a property with their claimed 24 hour service  with fully trained agency staff that according to the advert on the telly cover deepest Devon. I called at outside usual agency hours and got an out of hours reception service from someone who has never had any agency training.
      Hatched offers a national service for £600 which again should include deepest Devon.  It is very obvious that Hatched can not service North Devon with a full service  agency offering at the prices quoted  so  why claim they can and why make unsubstantiated claims about the savings available to vendors?
      There is room for Traditional and local  Agents without offices in the marketplace and I had a summer of grief for saying so. Here in deepest Devon  that system  operates and works well but what does not work is people who do not  and can not offer full service agency but claim they do.
      As for the reworking of 1990’s technology to include page views it will not make up for poor initial  advice on value and marketing, no agent should put themselves in the position of taking on un-saleable instruction that would necessitate use of such a tool.

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    2. PeeBee
      April 24, 2015 at 14:15

      “Not wanting to be disrespectful Peebee but some of the comments on here in last 24 hours have been a little churlish.”

      Such as…?

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      1. Robert May
        April 24, 2015 at 15:32

        There are a lot of people put a lot of money into disrputing the industry Peebee and one has to suspect they will be wondering why the promised returns are not forthcoming.

        Those people  won’t be liking that you and I are intent on keeping the balance of our industry 98:2 and between the pair of us we are probably giving other investors something to consider.

        People don’t like  their mis-truths  and short coming to be identified and so people like you and I will be branded as  churlish  or naysayers. I hope you can live with that, I can!

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        1. PeeBee
          April 24, 2015 at 16:08

          Robert – I lived with it just fine during 2009 – 2013 while, like you, I was a non-practicing Estate Agent posting on Ros’ industry news site – so this is just SSDD for me… ;o)

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  16. Hound
    April 24, 2015 at 11:41

    So many questions!……..
     
     
    Robert & PeeBee: No, I don’t work for Adam, still on the High Street, but unlike most here recognising the flaws in the way the ‘standard’ model works and an understanding of the need for the industry to embrace the future.
     
     
    Ric: I think Adam has already dealt with your first scenario earlier in the thread, if, for whatever reason there are no stats to display, then they won’t appear, very little different in reality to you responding to an enquiry by explaining that your vendor has been ill and you’ve therefore been unable to arrange any viewings.  And your second scenario, if you’ve had 30 viewings, that level of interest would suggest that it is not price or marketing that is putting people off. You must however, have a vendor wondering what is wrong with their home and why no-one is offering. I assume that like all good agents you are obtaining feedback from viewers and looking for common threads to address this issue with your client.
     
     
    And finally, let’s see if we can debunk Robert’s valuation myths. Valuation is not rocket science, but is about comparison, and an understanding of what is happening in the marketplace.  Finding suitable comps is somewhat easier than when I first started in this industry way back when, and it is not too difficult to research and find out what is happening to the market in the South West, or in the Frozen North, so the much vaunted ‘local knowledge’ is by no means as important as it was 20 years ago, as I can easily find out with a click of the mouse what similar properties in any given area sold for. Far more important is an understanding of people’s needs and expectations and a deal of common sense. The outwardly similar property sold for £x but had not been touched since it was built 40 years ago, so this one with a re-fitted kitchen and bathroom would probably sell for £x, or the extension on this one adds £x to the value, or conversely, ‘what you’ve done here Mr Vendor probably makes this property less saleable, so I’d expect it to sell for around £x’. Fact is that most people move in a fairly tight geographical area, so your prospective buyers have just as much, if not more local knowledge than you!
     
     
    Let’s give you a little for instance, I’ve recently sold our second car, having bought a replacement privately, so a trade in was not an option. So what did I do, I did some homework, found out what similar vehicles were selling at, made a little adjustment in the asking price for the fact that I did not want it hanging around, came up with a price, put it on autotrader and sold it within a week. First time since I sold my very first car to a mate that I’ve sold a car myself. Now before anyone says, I’m well aware that what we are dealing with has a few more £00 in the asking price, and that comparing cars of the exact same model is probably easier than comparing property, but if I’d not been able to find the exact same model, I would have looked at other small diesel hatchbacks and based my comparison on that. Same basic principals!
     
    As I said, not rocket science Robert!

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    1. PeeBee
      April 24, 2015 at 14:51

      “Let’s give you a little for instance, I’ve recently sold our second car…”

      So at that point, the “for instance” becomes completely irrelevant.

      Come on, Hound!

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      1. Hound
        April 24, 2015 at 16:08

        Really PeeBee? I’m well aware that the ‘mechanics’ of a car sale are very different, but I’m surprised that you don’t recognise similarities in the process of arriving at an asking price, which of course was all I was describing, what method do you use then if not comparison? Finger in the air perhaps?

        Actually, come to think of it, there is another similarity, I advertised the car on a website, where I knew buyers would see it.

         

         

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        1. PeeBee
          April 24, 2015 at 17:44

          “Finger in the air perhaps?”

          Yup – works for me every time – plus a winning smile, of course…

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  17. Robert May
    April 24, 2015 at 12:13

    3 near enough  identical properties sat in a row, the outer two have sold  for £250,000 what is the one in the middle worth? This was the  case we were discussing when you  went to Dorset last year.

    Valuation isn’t rocket science Hound but is makes or breaks an Agency.

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    1. Robert May
      April 24, 2015 at 15:39

      Looks like Hound dashed off to Great Alne for a long weekend…  Then sigh not so, but let them go, and be you blyth and bonnie!

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      1. Hound
        April 24, 2015 at 16:16

        I’m still here Robert, and somewhat puzzled by your interest in my social life! But just for the record, I’m saving my energy for the May bank holiday weekend!

        I didn’t bother to answer, as whilst I enjoy the debate, I’m not really interested in playing little games with you. Maybe that’s why Adam gave you what you considered to be a disapointing response, I think I would question the seriousness of a valuation enquiry in the middle of a discussion on an estate agency internet forum!

        Why Great Alne, am I missing something?

         

         

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        1. Robert May
          April 24, 2015 at 16:59

          I am not stalking you Hound but remember you broke off the same conversation to go to Dorset and then  it was ages before you posted again. It seems there is a day folk festival in Warwickshire  this weekend, sounds like a good shout!
          I don’t consider it a game and I am certainly not playing one. Comparative method plus a bit is not the basis of professional valuation and certainly  not one that can be defended as such.
          Zoopla’s AVM now widely recognised as flawed works that way and creates a self fulfilling prophesy. I raised the subject because I want to show it is not possible to value on a national basis being reliant on the numbers pumped out by Zoopla.

          The example I gave you was a property that sold for £500k when comparative logic was suggesting £250k,  the same as its neighbours. The property no longer exists but Zoopla now has it valuing at £500K plus the  market move index.
          Comparaive method  is a solid check on valuation but is only valid in a steady market, the last time the market was anything like steady was the run up to 2005.
          Valuation has to be based on the spread of known applicants with the aim to get as close to the exponential decay point as possible.  In other words at £100 everyone wants to buy at £100,000 fewer and at *** just 1 buyer.  Reliance on internet applicants means the applicant demand  push/ pull curve is unknown.
          In a rising market here where we get lots of London buyers some prices can be 25 or 30% ahead of  comparative indications  simply because £1.5- 2 million is nothing to London buyers and an agent is duty bound to achieve a sale to the best buyer not to a local buyer.
          The detail I gave on the valuation on my property would have highlighted that although it is a 2 bed semi almost identical to the Midas ones  100 yards away it commands £20,000 more.
          My posting here is not a game I have valid points to make and evidence to back it up. I think  AVMs  are the sole driver of fee erosion and without them central office area rep agencies  would not  be viable.

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  18. interestedobserver
    April 24, 2015 at 14:44

    How do people on here see Estate Agency evolving? Any new thinking, innovation or creativity seems to be shouted down by the nay sayers banging on about 30 years of experience, the irreplaceable experience  of the local agent etc etc whilst not offering anything new. Aside from windsor knots reaching epically huge proportions on young agents (presumably to counter balance the weight of their hair gel) what are the big developments in the Estate Agency model? Minis with logos aside. Uber, AirBnB and others have butchered complacent industries. Will pomposity do for Traditional Agents?

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    1. Hound
      April 24, 2015 at 16:38

      That’s a pretty fair summary of most that post on here Interested observer.

      How do I see estate agency evolving? Away from the High Street, as eventually realisation will dawn that the majority of business is conducted remotely these days. The British Retail Consortium will show you figures revealing a consistent decline in High Street footfall over the past few years, with a corresponding growth in internet shopping. There are High Street regeneration projects where the main focus is to create a social hub, rather than the centre of commerce they used to be. Fees are a big issue too, and as the online agents develope their model, more people will become aware of the fact that a sizeable proportion of the fee they pay goes to fund all the abortive work agents do and they are picking up all the costs for the properties that go on the market but for one reason or another don’t sell. Try asking an estate agent for an itemised bill showing exactly what he has spent on YOUR property!

      Your final sentence might just prove prophetic!

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      1. Robert May
        April 24, 2015 at 17:15

        Harry Hill  (RM version not the chap with the big collar) did a detailed breakdown of the viability of an agency and minimum fee levels, the main cost was staff wages.  If  you remember Mr Hill got all enthusiastic about  central office online agency but seemingly once reminded of his own cost analysis from just 18 months before he wasn’t involved  there very shortly thereafter.

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  19. Robert May
    April 25, 2015 at 10:06

    The Saturday thread?
    I am not sure who else is working but occasionally Peebee and I have debated stuff once threads have dropped into the archive.   Interestedobserver has tried a couple of troll posts hoping for a reaction; the one about  hits being old hat in 1981 about 15 years before most people  had any concept of the internet let alone had their first  56k dial up modem was a bit weak and then this last  rather unpleasant snipe at pompous  agents nay saying creativity and innovation  is so very typical of people who have no real concept or respect for agents and what is actually required to  value and sell property for clients as a fiduciary agent.
    A rising market is harder to call than a stable or falling market, the requirement to understand applicant demand push is necessary to maximise a client’s achieved price. Comparable valuation methodology can not effectively cope with demand dictated markets and simply whacking a trend line  addition onto comparative figures is simply amateur , but  the gold rush mentality of grabbing a slice of agency action means it is all some agents have.
    I am a  committed doubter on Adam Days innovation, it was a feature of software in its own right going back to 1995/96 but before that manipulating the reports in GMW, Solex and AEA meant this “creativity and innovation” was available  even before Agents were using the internet  (1989), Sure hits visitors, page views etc weren’t around then but no-one had any rational thought of including VFD  stats in reports to vendors.  Isolating this one feature to say nay tay it is specifically only of use to agents who have deliberately taken an unsaleable instructions or an agent caught by an changing or uncertain market. Adam  will see this as innovative and cutting edge, it is a necessity for an agent that has no meaningful applicant demand curve on which to base their valuations. For them valuation is reduced to guess work but not the gut feel good guess a local agent can rely on
    So what is the future of agency, what are us naysayers doing to be innovative and creative? we are attempting to move things forward by removing  the lies, mis representation and false claims that seem to be flourishing at the moment. Good Estate Agency does not need to change buy their communication does. Good agents need to protect their data from being shared with those who don’t have it,  Good agents need to understand exactly what  shared with 3rd parties actually means and who those 3rd parties are. Good agency needs to promote itself ahead of its service providers and reclaim the natural  internet search result top spot from its service suppliers.

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  20. Robin
    April 25, 2015 at 13:55

    Hi Robert – well I’m still working!    I believe agency HAS changed enormously since the distant days when I was first recruited as a trainee negotiator and all for the better as far as I can see.   The only thing which really remains constant is the no-sale, no-fee mentality which home owners seem unable to resist.    Over the years, I and many others have tried to offer a pay-as-you-go, or upfront fee structure offering tremendous savings over the traditional model but the fact is the vast majority of sellers prefer to pay a much larger fee once the deal is completed rather than risk payment in advance before they know you can deliver a result.  If only we were able to charge per hour, or per advert, or per viewing, or per day on the market – anything to allow us to justify the fee by saying : ‘that’s’ what we did, and that’s the cost of it’.   Unsuccessful sellers would have to pay their share.  But as long as the ‘no-sale’, no-fee’ model remains dominant, every vendor that sells will be subsidising the cost of advertising for every one that doesn’t.   And in the end, it’s the cost of selling which is really what most people hold against estate agents and the reason why anyone chooses to go to an on-line-only, central-office based model even if they cannot possibly deliver a personalised service no matter what they promise.  We all know what we think of the ‘no-win, no-fee’ lawyers who ambulance chase for potential clients, but unfortunately most of our businesses are run on the same basis and we cannot expect to be loved by the nation as long as we can’t find a fairer way of charging.
     

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  21. Robert May
    April 25, 2015 at 17:23

    I only had one complaint about fees and that was a chap who moved North of the border to Scotland and was  apparently un-chase able, so I didn’t really consider that a proper complaint. No other client ever complained about 2% sole agency or 3% multi fees and that was because I made sure like most agents I delivered service, honesty and exactly what I said I would when I said I would.
    My apprenticeship into agency was hard work especially as I was  initially working for 1/4 of what I was as an Oilwell cement  engineer but I learned to do the job properly and competitively from a  chap who simply dominated the town. I learned that even a 5% fee is not expensive if  the vendor ends up with more money after completion or secures a better deal on the property they are buying. Fees are a way to control the competition and that is why fee erosion caused by the industry’s service suppliers sharing  and disseminating Agent’ reputation won data is simply wrong.  The very vast majority of agents are quite unaware just what is happening to their data and just how much data sharing is costing them. Where rising subscriptions to the portals has been a motivation for Agents Mutual I believe many more agent would  join Agents Mutual if they realised fee erosion averaging  about 0.25 % (net) could be controlled by affinity group pressure to stop suppliers hawking off the contents of the dead filing drawers. I estimate a typical 75 sale per annum agent is missing out on about £34,000 each year.  That surely puts the need to control passive intermediaries passing themselves off as agents into perspective.

    I think successful vendors do love agent who deliver service, but I also think there is a lot of sniping and jealousy from people who simply don’t understand fully the  level of professionalism and integrity proper Agency requires.
    Enjoy the weekend!

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  22. interestedobserver
    April 27, 2015 at 10:18

    Robert,

    I have repeatedly stated on here that in my opinion agents do a difficult job very well.

    I have also said numerous times that agents are their own worse enemy when it comes to poor communication with buyers and sellers, based on my own experiences as a buyer, seller  and landlord and those of family and friends.

    Definately not trolling, but if you view asking questions as looking for a reaction, then you are right. Answers or views are reactions, which is exactly what I’m looking for. The more I ask, the more I learn.  Even from you, though it’s not always easy to hear you when your high horse is propped up on soap boxes.

     

    Interestedobserver has tried a couple of troll posts hoping for a reaction; the one about  hits being old hat in 1981 about 15 years before most people  had any concept of the internet let alone had their first  56k dial up modem was a bit weak and then this last  rather unpleasant snipe at pompous  agents nay saying creativity and innovation  is so very typical of people who have no real concept or respect for agents and what is actually required to  value and sell property for clients as a fiduciary agent.

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    1. Robert May
      April 27, 2015 at 11:40

      If I have to train my high horse to wear silts while balancing on soap boxes on top of the Shard that is exactly what I will do  in the face of comments like yours.

       

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      1. Robert May
        April 27, 2015 at 15:38

        “I have repeatedly stated on here that in my opinion agents do a difficult job very well”
        Err no you haven’t Andy. I just used  a bit of the future of Estate Agency to see if I could find a single time when you have said that, you haven’t. Well not in your 30 (ish) posts on here you haven’t.
        The future did however throw up enough search  terms to reverse engineer into a single profile. Just so you know, the HighHorse  neigh saying  jockey  has built tech that can identify single properties across the globe  in well under a minute so tracking down a single executive even  one  protected by a moniker wasn’t too difficult. Trust me it is far more powerful than anything you have used or marketed in your past.

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        1. PeeBee
          April 27, 2015 at 16:53

          I’ll give the guy this much Robert – he’s got b@11s.

          He simply mustn’t care what colour they are, or how easy it is for you to kick the chuff out them… ;o)

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          1. Robert May
            April 27, 2015 at 17:23

            All I ask is that as a service provider to the industry he treats agents with the level of respect they deserve and understands that despite what  several service supliers think it is the customer who pays our wages not the consumers and in this industry that is agents. He knows that I know and that is enough for now.

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  23. PeeBee
    April 27, 2015 at 12:38

    ““I’d ask you to review your statement, wilko!”…….Or read all the “waffle” next time!”

    Don’t worry, wilko – I will always put the waffle in front of you so that you can make an informed judgement! ;o)

    “Having said that, we all know high street agents that do fit this description.”

    HOW MANY High Street Agents do you know, wilko?  And HOW MANY of them fit those descriptions?

    Reading Mr Day – all of them – and THAT is my point exactly.  He is pigeon-holing YOU with those descriptions, wilko – and me, Paul H, Ric, Jonnie… the list goes on.

    And for one I’m not letting him get away with it.

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  24. PeeBee
    April 27, 2015 at 17:23

    ‘interestedobserver’ states above “Uber, AirBnB and others have butchered complacent industries.”  I can only surmise from this that he or she (on the basis that ‘Andy’ can be either – you need to be more specific in future, Robert…) is of the opinion that ordering a bed for the night or a cab for a night out (the latter of which, for many with a deficiency in the morals department could well lead to the former, I guess…)  has something to do with the buying, selling or renting of property.

    This is the guy/gal who seemingly also firmly believes that local experience is totally irrelevant to the past, present – and definitely NOT the future – of our industry.

    Funny, innit – how those who are furthest adrift from reality think they are on top of the situation…

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    1. Robert May
      April 27, 2015 at 19:46

      In fairness the advantage I have is hearing  first hand how these  digital retail sales  executives have been influenced by Autotrader digital replacing Autotrader print and certainly one of those  is still hell bent on owning your desktop  as Autotrader did to  car retailers   ( actually if  his cloud software worked as it should he would be a lot closer to that goal than you and your firm ought to be comfortable with) But here is the thing, the bit that they can’t get their heads round even though I have repeated it a dozen times or more, ESTATE AGENCY IS A SERVICE INDUSTRY NOT A SALES INDUSTRY (sorry! on High horse, on soap box, need to shout, those that didn’t understand apparently couldn’t hear properly)

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  25. Robert May
    April 28, 2015 at 06:27

    Come on Peebee there was a time when my morning routine was laid out; Shipping forecast, Tweet of the day,  think about and reply to Peebee’s late night post ready for Ros to deliver the new news.
    Not to worry, here is a new word for you ‘autotradification’. The reason I have struggled to condense  and   give a ‘lift description’ of G5 is because  that word didn’t exist. It does now!
    G5 is about halting the  attempted autotradification of the residential sales and lettings industry.

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    1. PeeBee
      April 28, 2015 at 08:41

      Apologies for bu99ering up your early morning routine, Robert!

      Most people I would imagine still stick to ‘The Three Esses’ when the alarm clock doth ring/buzz/trill out “I Will Survive” (delete where appropriate) – but you and I are of one mind – you can’t beat a bit of EYE as the last and first thing we do either side of the witching hour!

      Not sure if I buy into the new word, mind you.  Although it is a reasonable description of the situation, it almost gives what’s going on some credibility by association.

      I would be more inclined to ‘borrow’ and adapt a Jonnie classic and call it f*ckwitification.

      To me that’s the perfect word – but we may have to differ on this occasion.

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      1. Robert May
        April 28, 2015 at 09:16

        That is a perfect onomatopoeic description but one I couldn’t possibly use in a lift or over the telephone to explain G5 to Ros Renshaw.  That has been the problem- explaining how newspaper and corporate sorts are trying to dumb down and control an industry that is fully reliant  on trust, honesty and integrity to operate but which they don’t fully understand; a case of bad benchmarking.
        I can’t use your word but I have at least I have synonym for mine!

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