Kristian Byfield is a well known industry figure.
A big man with a big personality and forthright views. Someone who is not afraid to express them.
His estate agency, Base Property, in Shoreditch, London, left Rightmove with effect from yesterday afternoon.
Alerted to the story by posts on social media, EYE approached Byfield and asked whether he could provide more information about the decision to quit Rightmove.
In reply Byfield sent us the recent correspondence between himself, his partner in the business, An Deckers, and Harry Donnachie (their Rightmove Account manager) following the firm giving notice to the portal.
It is a long read and it clearly shows the gulf that opened up between Byfield and the portal.
16th April 2020 10:00
Hi Kristjan,
I hope you and the whole team are all well?
I just called, but had no luck getting through. I just wanted to let you know that I am covering Josh with anything in relation to your account. Please feel free to contact me on either my mobile or email. Please do pass my details onto the team, in case they have Rightmove related questions.
Last week, we also announced that we are able to support virtual tours on all of your listings. Please follow the link below for a step by step guide of how to upload them onto site.
https://hub.rightmove.co.uk/how-to-share-a-virtual-tour-or-video-on-your-rightmove-listing/
Our design team is still working, so we could look at updating your banner designs, which appear on site. The below banners appear on the sales listing pages and we could look to amend these to be more in line with the current situation. For instance, we could look to promote the fact that your staff are still operating remotely or that you are conducting virtual tours.
Our design team are still able to do banner amends for free. You would just need to complete an amend request form found here:
https://hub.rightmove.co.uk/amendrequest/
Please also see below for some design examples, which have recently been created:
https://hub.rightmove.co.uk/covid-19/
As discussed, we also continuing to run webinars throughout April. These can also be found on the Rightmove hub and you can register for them, by following the link below:
https://hub.rightmove.co.uk/
I thought you might find the above useful to help promote your stock.
Your cancellation request is still in place for the 01/05/20. Would you still like to go ahead with this?
Many thanks,
Harry Donnachie
Account Manager
16th April 2020 12:11
Kristjan Byfield to Harry Donnachie
We’re still leaving! Shame RM ignored my requests for virtual tours to be embedded 2-3 years ago along with quality video content. Rightmove’s refusal to innovate and evolve has been a big part of why we are leaving. You guys really are your own worst enemy! Everything RM is dealing with atm could have so easily been avoided- but you chose to ignore us whilst simultaneously ripping us off.
Hey ho!
21st April 2020 12:34
Hi Kristjan,
I’m sorry to hear that felt that way. It would be great if we could schedule a call to go over this in more detail and look at the ways we have helped and can help your business going forward.
As detailed in my previous email, we have introduced video tours to listings, which are helping with online viewings.
Please do let me know if we can schedule a call, so we can look at the ways we can help your business going forward.
Many thanks,
Harry Donnachie
Account Manager
21st April 2020 12:36
Kristjan Byfield to Harry Donnachie
Far too little, far too late. No innovation and ripping us off come at a price!
21st April 2020 14:14
Hi Kristjan,
Would you have any time to discuss your account in more detail over the phone? It would be great to look at what we have provided and how we can help your business going forward.
Many thanks,
Harry Donnachie
Account Manager
21st April 15:22
Byfield sent Donnachie a link to his published open letter to Rightmove explaining the reasons for leaving. This is a heavily abridged version:
Dear Rightmove,
I am writing this open letter to you in the hope that, at long last, you might finally ‘sit up and take notice’. It is important that you understand this is not a knee-jerk reaction to the current climate – it is a decision that is in the best interests of our company and, possibly, our industry.
The issues and reasons for our departure are not new and are far from unique – these sentiments have been echoed in articles, comments and social media for months if not years by agents up and down the country. For whatever reason, you have refused to listen – if there are larger repercussions, you only have yourselves to blame.
The first thing you need to understand is, up until about four years ago, I was a strong advocate of Rightmove. However, in 4 years your actions, conduct and ‘customer interaction’ have polarised my opinion of your company and its value, not just in our business, but in the marketplace as a whole.
The last five years has seen our Rightmove package leap from £1092.50+VAT to a staggering £1986.50+VAT – an increase of 82 per cent! During this time we have seen no discernible increase in the business generated through the leads provided by you. We have also seen no real innovation with Rightmove in terms of expanding its offerings to deliver solutions that genuinely add value to an agents business. As such, there has been no justifiable reason for these increases other than to drive up revenue and profit as fast and as far as possible.
Despite independent agencies making up around 80 per cent of the UK real estate sector – we are treated, or at least feel like we are, as a segment that is to be priced aggressively.
The aspect of this that has angered and upset me the most is around the selling of additional and bolt-on products. In our annual review, the Account Manager focus is always on plugging these, asserting their value and driving to get an agent to take more- all on the assurances that these deliver real value. However, I have it on good authority from numerous people who have held senior positions in large scale operations that, in marketing meetings, they have been told point blank that most of these products have little to no real value and are usually then offered to be bundled in their packages for free. Do you honestly think that as agents we don’t talk?
Somewhere on your journey you have forgotten that it is OUR properties you market- without us and our stock, Rightmove is literally an empty shell- but for some reason you think you are a castle – a castle with all the properties and all the applicants in that you give us permission to enter if we pay the extraordinary entrance fee. This belief appears to be echoed in every echelon of the company.
The manner in which price increases have been handled to date, especially in recent years, has been often rude and overwhelmingly arrogant. This was crystallised in the diabolical handling of our fees last year.
I went through a three-tier review process contesting our new rate- first with our AM, then with an Area Manager and finally with an exec. The outcome of those talks? Nothing – Rightmove’s position remained unchanged throughout- pay the quoted increase, downgrade your package or leave.
When I see discussions about agents wanting to leave Rightmove, the most common reason for not doing it is the belief that they will lose clients as a result. This has very much been perpetuated by Rightmove in its marketing and messages to agents. I personally cannot remember the last time a client asked about Rightmove- or any other marketing solution for that matter.
24th April 2020 11:44
Hi Kristjan,
I hope you’re well?
I completely appreciate your feelings outlined in the article. However, I thought it would be useful to pull the data below, to highlight what we have provided for your business. I am concerned what impact leaving Rightmove might have on your business.
Lead levels:
Total emails received during the last 12 months: 1262
Total calls received during the last 12 months: 1167
Total leads: 2429
All of the above data can be found in your lead reports in Rightmove Plus. As you can see Rightmove has been a great source of leads and valuation opportunities during the last 12 months.
Quality of Leads
While we do believe the quantity of leads that we sent to you is really important, our real focus is giving you leads that you are able to convert. Please see the below data provided by Dezrez that demonstrates Rightmove leads converting to tenants/buyer is much higher than the other portals:
I know for some time you have expressed your feelings towards Rightmove but I want to ensure the decision you make going forward is the best to help you succeed with developing your business, rather than this being based on emotion.
According to Google trends, Rightmove is searched for 4x higher than any other portal. We also have more time spent on Rightmove than any of our competitors. This gives you not only the largest home moving audience, but the most active and engaged.
As you may be aware your notice period is due to terminate on 01/05/2020. We have also reduced your monthly subscription by 75% for April, May, June and July.
I do believe leaving Rightmove and reducing the level of exposure and size of audience that see your properties could be a mistake, but of course this is your decision.
It would be great to arrange a call to discuss your plans moving forward and if you would be willing to consider retracting your notice so we could work together and help in the future.
Many thanks,
Harry Donnachie
Account Manager
24th April 2020 12:20
If only Rightmove had shown this kind of interest for the last decade when we were paying members of your platform.
Kind regards,
An Deckers
24th April 2020 13:40
Hi An,
I’m sorry to hear that you haven’t had this kind of attention before in relation to your account.
I’d be more than happy to step in and help put a plan together with you, so you can get the most out of your Rightmove membership?
Many thanks,
Harry Donnachie
Account Manager
24th April 2020 13:48
Kristjan Byfield to Harry Donnachie
Too little too late
29th April 2020 10:54
Hi Kristjan,
Thanks for returning my emails.. I know you said that are still looking to come off Rightmove at the end of the month, but I really do feel that this would be detrimental to your business.
I thought it would be useful to share some more market stats for March/April.
During this lockdown period consumers are still choosing to use RM over the other portals. We have also seen the number of leads since lockdown start to increase back up after the initial slowdown, which is promising.
We also perform much better in lettings – Data sourced from Van Mildert, asking a tenant where they found their rental property and 69% said RM.
Based on the above and the stats I share with you yesterday, along with the fact that none of your competitors are coming off Rightmove in your area, I think this would be the wrong thing to do.
Of course this is not my decision and I only want to see your business continue to grow. However, I do feel that by removing your listings from the largest and most active home moving audience in the U.K, will not help with this.
I’d be more than happy to give you a call tomorrow to see where you are with your notice and would be happy to work with you on a monthly basis (in terms of payment and the performance of your account), to help you get the most out of your membership with us, whilst keeping control of your payments.
Many thanks,
Harry Donnachie
Account Manager
29th April 2020 11:25
Kristjan Byfield to Harry Donnachie
Hi Harry,
Few things:
National statistics are meaningless in any area of property.
I see Rightmove’s arrogance remains intact- it is nowhere near as important as it thinks.
Zoopla has generated twice the business for half the cost of Rightmove for us for the last 3 years without the need for 20% price hikes.
Rightmove doesn’t listen to what our business needs – it does what it wants.
Rightmove hasn’t done anything innovative for years – in fact it has refused to innovate.
Rightmove doesn’t support our industry it leeches off of it.
Rightmove is nowhere near as important to consumers as it thinks – our clients 100% support us leaving it.
Rightmove has put revenue and profit above all else and has not shown in any way that this can and will change.
Rightmove has blown the opportunity over the last decade to become the amazon of property.
I can’t think of a single reason to stay with Rightmove.
After a public open letter and multiple emails re-affirming this – chasing me now just seems desperate.
I’d find a new employer Harry, working in sales at RM is going to be like a war zone for the foreseeable future.
30th April 08:30
Good morning Kristjan,
I’m writing to remind you that your Rightmove membership is set to expire today.
I understand there are many more important things happening for you at the moment, but I wanted to get in touch to see if there’s anything we can do to support you.
As you may know, the 75% discount applied to your Rightmove bill that you received starting from 1 April is set to continue for a further three months to ease some of the pressure you’re currently facing and so that you can continue to advertise your clients’ properties on Rightmove.
If you wish to talk about this please let me know.
If we don’t hear from you before 4:30pm today, your membership will expire on 30th April 2020.
If you feel unable to continue with your Rightmove membership at this time, we’d be happy to speak to you at any point in the future to see if we can be of help.
Above everything else, we wish you the best and we hope you, your family and your team are safe and well.
Thank you,
Harry Donnachie
PS If you would like to continue with your Rightmove membership, we’d like to make it as easy as possible for you. Click this link before 4:30pm today and login to the Rightmove Hub to let us know you’d like to stay. If you don’t already have a Rightmove Hub login, you can create one. Of course, you can always give me a call or let me know a good time to call you. Alternatively, you can simply reply to this email.
30th April 2020 13:32
Good afternoon Kristjan,
I wanted to let you know that the deadline to let us know if you’d like to continue with your Rightmove membership is coming shortly and we want to make sure we have enough time to help before 4:30pm. If we don’t hear from you before 4:30pm, your membership will expire today, 30th April 2020.
I am sure that there are many factors that may be influencing your decision about your Rightmove membership, but I do want to make sure you have the chance to speak to us if there’s anything we can do to support you.
As the deadline is so close, there are several different ways you can either speak to me or let us know if you’d like to continue with your membership:
Simply reply to this email
Give me a call to have a chat
Or if you’ve already decided you’d like to continue with your Rightmove membership, click this link before 4:30pm today and login to the Rightmove Hub to let us know you’d like to stay. If you don’t already have a Rightmove Hub login, you can create one.
I want to reassure you that the 75% discount applied to your Rightmove bill that you received starting from 1 April is set to continue for a further three months if you do wish to continue to advertise on Rightmove.
If you feel unable to continue with your Rightmove membership at this time, we’d be happy to speak to you to see how we can be of help at any point in the future.
Most importantly, stay safe and well and we wish you the very best.
Thank you,
Harry Donnachie
30th April 13:53
Kristjan Byfield to Harry Donnachie
Are you kidding me?! My last 5 or so emails weren’t enough – you thought this was the right email to send?
These generic emails and responses just continue to highlight that you guys have learned nothing and continue in the same vein.
Every email has solidified our position further. Utter madness!
Kind Regards
Kristjan
EYE asked Byfield for his thoughts as his company leaves Rightmove.
He told us:
“Contrary to what some may think I am not, per se, ‘anti Rightmove’.
“All I have wanted is a partner that delivers value, values our relationship (and in doing so understands there is some give and take to be had), continues to evolve and improve their service offering through ongoing innovation, and listens.
“Sadly, Rightmove has continually fallen foul of all of these.
“Staggeringly, it appears that, to date, they have learned nothing from the last 6 weeks at all and I don’t expect to see any changes in this regard any time soon – if ever.
“Their fate now rests with their remaining agents and how they choose to proceed from here but I personally feel Rightmove are their own worst enemy.”
Rightmove was not shown this story prior to publication and was not given the opportunity to directly comment because it is a recitation of the correspondence between the parties – who both made their positions clear.
EYE has offered Rightmove the opportunity to separately give a response if it wishes to do so.
Same thing played out for me in December, they were so worried I’d go bust without them. I’m still here and enjoying saving £30k per annum, helping to avoid having to furlough my staff.
Bye Rightmove!
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Well said Kristjan
Their numbers are only that good because we give them the properties and use the site ourselves – How they have the audacity to use them against in this way is amazing!
As soon as the rest of the industry wakes up to the fact there is no RM without OUR properties the better.
Perhaps then we can have a proper relationship with a portal partner who cares.
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Look forward to seeing RM’s official response! They are getting a shoeing at the moment. I have been ignoring the ‘out of touch’ communication received over the last week. ‘It’s still time to change your mind’ etc etc Sheer arrogance. This indicates the stop RM campaigns are not yet reaching out or have notbeen effective enough. Yet! At RM HQ they must be assured by the number of agents who remain, otherwise their communication would show more compassion surely? This company remain totally out of quilter with it’s customer base. Quite staggering. Although I’m expecting RM to counter with a new marketing campaign. Good luck to those who remain because unless the ‘ SAY NO’ campaigns manage to negotiate fair long term deals, RM will almost definitely be ramping up fees in the future to make up for the 25% of the industry who have left. I hope majority of stock moves elsewhere, which will topple RM from number one in the consumer’s mind and only then will we see some momentum against this absolute dinosaur of an organisation. Still a loooong way to go.
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Very best wishes to Kristjan & An. Everything in these emails is true and is my experience too, over the years.
I do hope their competitors see this as an opportunity, not to use this negatively but be bigger and kinder. They may very soon follow their lead and gain an extra sale in savings each month.
Im on the brink myself.
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Congratulations to Kristjan and PIE for providing this very detailed attempt at palliative care from Wrongmove. The rep certainly worked very hard in complete certainty that Kristjan would never have the balls to leave. I wish we were all in the same position but unfortunately Zoopla are so poor in this area and OTM just seem to be playing at it. If the departure can build in the core Zoopla areas such as London and then spread the Wrongmove exit may have legs.
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Out of interest what part of the country are you it’s only I feel the same in that hardly anyone in our area around South Manchester uses Zoopla, so although people have heard of it they probably don’t use it as frequently. The 9 month deal is quite tempting though…. no forget any of this … I hate property portals
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We gave notice to quit a month ago with the intention to come off from yesterday and then I bottled it ….and now I hate myself even more after reading all this
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I’m in Essex. RM are dominant
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I’m in Manchester, one office in the city and another in South Manchester, Zoopla works just fine for me. They’re no saints but their pricing is much better and you’d be surprised with the number of leads.
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Left in December. Made no difference aside the money we saved. RM has over played its hand.
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RM have been like this for 10+ years. it is cultural arrogance. That sounds emotional but agents have emotions and they don’t like being suppressed.
I honestly don’t think the RM bosses understand this. Their refusal to innovate the UX of the desktop and mobile site is astounding. There is so much you could do to make RM better and more efficient and effective for agents.
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We left yesterday as well for all the same reasons. It feels great to be free of them. Huge savings have been made after our analysis showed they were the third rate portal at 4 times the cost of their nearest and more productive rival. They will very soon reap what they have sown.
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How can you ‘thumbs down’ this comment?
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Total emails received during the last 12 months: 1262
Total calls received during the last 12 months: 1167
Total leads: 2429
Love this, I’m guessing no-one at Rightmove knows about Venn diagrams!
I think I’d have asked for one just to explain how they know people who use telephones don’t use email
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The thing is they will or should now, they have the phone numbers of people who ring and the vast majority of people who email will put their number on.
They should also be able to tell us how many valuation leads come on the market.
Wonder why they never have this info.
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Left yesterday too, rightmove account manager kept chasing us via email, we just ignored them. We were getting more leads via OnTheMarket than Rightmove before coronavirus started. On valuations no one ever asked about Rightmove. The next 12 months plus with the effects of Coronavirus on our future sales, we need to keep costs down, so there is no point paying out large monthly fees to Rightmove where the sales are going to be much lower than usual.
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Me too. Better quality leads from OTM too.
We’ve got to be careful of all those haters/Rightmove reps who are trying to slander OTM.
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The only thing left for that RM manager was to send a ‘It’s still not too late to save your business’ email 24 hours after the membership expired. Just click the link, rejoin and we will edit your banner for free as well.
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Well done Kristjan, brave choice.
What I did pick up from the email thread.
1. RM saying they support video tours / virtual tours. No they are not still cannot inbed a matterport tour all they have done is add a little orange flash on the main pic saying video tour available.
2. They have offered Kristjan 4 months reduced fees, sure the rest of us have only been offered 3. RM again showing no continuity
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Pretty sure everyone has been given 75% off for 4 months.
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Thats welcome, will have to double check.
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The thread of comments is an absolute hoot! It’s like a conversation where one guy was sitting with eyes tightly shut and fingers firmly stuck in his ‘la-la ears’ (credit: Robert May), and then screaming “Yeah but… no but… yeah but…” whenever the other took a breath!
Not a single syllable of gratitude to Krystjan and his company for their ten-plus years of business. Not a word of recognition that their business was part of a steady foundation that Rightmove had been built – and grown – upon.
Just a steady gush of “Look at US and what WE have done for YOU!“
In effect – a series of sales adverts showing No. Customer. Appreciation. anywhere. You couldn’t make it up.
If Kristjan and his partner were in any way thinking of staying on the platform, that string of correspondence must have sealed the deal for them to cut loose.
Credit to KB and the team for their actions – and for having the ‘nads to let this be released into industry (and public) domain.
Rightmove are a supplier – NOTHING ELSE. Think of them as you would a window cleaner. If your window cleaner doesn’t deliver ‘value for money’ – sparkling windows… no ‘portholes’… and washed-down frames then you either get them to perform to your required standards –
or you sack your window cleaner.
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Great email exchange!
Poor Harry! What a fighter but doesn’t really have any ammunition…
My thoughts…
Some will leave!
Some will say they are leaving then won’t!
Some will leave and crawl back after a few months!
Most agents hate RM but still pay!
My hopes….
Everyone leaves and it goes to the wall! I’d love that!
Independent agents pay proper fees for OTM so it can compete on a level playing field!
My fears….
Agents won’t leave or will crawl back if they do! (Historical pattern!)
OTM will continue to operate on a shoestring!
My humour….
We could always go back to newspaper advertising and Polaroid’s!!
Stay safe everyone
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“We could always go back to newspaper advertising and Polaroid’s!!”
Humour or not, RichardHill61 – history shows that a chuffload of property sold and rented when Agents used said newspaper adverts and polaroids!
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It was a joke!! However history also shows it was a far more expensive advertising medium than any portal including RM!! At one point I was spending about £5,000 a month with Johnson Press and they didn’t give an F either! Although I did get an invite to the Christmas party!
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“It was a joke!!”
I fully appreciate that – but one based on the irony I highlighted.
“However history also shows it was a far more expensive advertising medium than any portal including RM!!”
More expensive? Maybe. But in terms of RoI I would suggest it was far more effective. Putting a property in front of squillions of #PropertyPervers sitting on their sofas vs. a few thousand that had gone into a shop and physically paid for the publication?
I know which would have a better penetration rate – and so do you… or you wouldn’t have been spending all that money!
Stay safe, mon ami!
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Hi Kristjan -Harry here
Just to let you know that your membership expired yesterday .
During these difficult times,I suspect it has just been an oversight on your part .No worries ,It would be great to have a chat to explain
how we can help your business and put this right and get you back on track .
You are probably already today feeling the effects of a considerable drop off in enquiries from your absence overnight
If you can call me before 12 I can arrange to send some FREE Rightmove stickers for your window
As ever ,at your service
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Firstly, I’m still a RM member.
I called in November to quit…”your rep will be in touch..”
“but I haven’t seen or heard from a rep in five years…?”
Lots of patronising BS from lady on the phone about helping my cash flow and supporting me through a hard time for my business…(erm…I’d just had the best trading year in 30 years…!)
Rep turned up, good lad to be fair. Gave me £1000 of product for “free” banners and all that *****.
Said he’d review it in three months. No increased leads; the rep even admitted I’d only had three extra leads – imagine if I’d paid £1000 for that ****.
Now what to do?
Leave?
Or take advantage of the low rates and then leave?
I’m on OTM, but not Zoopla.
HELP…??!
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The £1k of product it wasnt for free … your still paying your subs…
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Hi Jonny, what to do? – LEAVE!
My firm is in a highly competitive south west town of town circa 18 agents and at this point in time I believe no others have left RM.
We quit yesterday with no qualms. In the last few weeks we’ve had far more enquires from Z and OTM. The market is all set to change forever and the limited supply of instructions which will come on the market in due course, if properly priced, will sell no matter what.
We’ve also had numerous pathetic pleading letters from RM over the last few days. Laughable, especially in the light of no contact from a rep in the last couple of years.
From what I gather from the larger groups I am talking to, they’ll see out their contracts and then quit.
Our decision to leave was bolstered by the amount of those who have left already, reporting it has made no difference to their sales and enhanced their bank balances.
Dither no longer. Leave.
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Your issue is one we all face.
We do not need RM but know other agents will stick the knife in if we leave. Its this fear that keeps us with them.
I think sadly for sales agents are in effect forced to stay with RM on lettings however, it is easier to leave.
Any agent with RM should cancel all the extras and that includes lettings. Lets bleed them and wean ourselves off them.
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Hi Smile Please – I have no fear of the other agents sticking the knife in.
Although some vendors may have an RM fixation, most will buy into our reputation, selling skills and personalities to instruct us.
Plus the fact, being pragmatic rather than pessimistic, we will, in due course, be operating in a very, very different market place, where every penny counts and where the best agents will shine – without RM.
Don’t worry about the other guys, if you’re good enough, you’ll win through.
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PS – We’re sales only (thank goodness!)
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I feel cheated – they only sent us two emails when we served notice and left a year ago.
I can tell you the for a fact, the world isnt flat and you will not fall off the edge of the RM seas when you leave.
We sold everything we should, let everything on our books, and there was .. “drum roll” ………..ZERO, yes zero drop in revenue, but the added bonus of an extra £2,600 a month not heading out the door to RM…. we use Facebook and Instagram for Brand awareness and have let multiple properties and sold a few from those platforms – (for pennies in comparison to RM)
i have always found these postings of resentment about RM strange – they were our captures but we always held the gun — I think all agency owners and directors sign up for a shot of Stockholm Syndrome once in charge – myself included..
Take aim, shoot and leave – if we slay this beast, other suppliers will take note – we are the drunken drivers of our own destiny, so sober up and get where you want to be.
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How is it legally allowed or even right to share all these emails without contacting the company and individual involved?
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Are you ok hun?
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We’ve been lucky to lose very few clients over the years. However when this has happened, after a polite & respectful discussion to understand why and trying to resolve those issues, we have politely let them go. We have respected their decision, advised we are here if/when they need us and wish them the best of luck.What we haven’t done is: question their competence in making this decision, compiled eroneous & misleading stats to suit our purpose, ignored their feedback completely, sent ongoing generic emails in the same vein.Had we done so I would have understood our clients decision to share our conduct and publicly review us accordingly.If you would like to debate this matter further under your own name rather than a handle I would readily welcome that.
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WELL SAID, Sir!
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so nearly £10 to receive each lead, ex VAT
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Rightmove abuse their power, they play agents off against each other for more profit. Many more will be going. Every agent needs to join OneDome or other free portals that earn off adverts.
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‘free portals that earn off adverts‘
And the small matter of selling financial services and conveyancing. You know, the sort of things agents themselves earn money off.
When something is free, you are the product.
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To be fair they are open about that and share any revenue generated with the agent. Many agents don’t leverage these services for income do why not have them pay for listings and maybe generate a bit on top for zero effort.
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Anyone on here received an income from OneDome yet or even been able to get them to put your preferred supplier on their ‘panel’?
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Poor Harry! An amateur will stitch up a professional.
Kristian, if you want the rainbow you’ve got to put up with the rain. Do you which ‘philosopher’ said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of ****.
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Hi KL- not sure I get the analogy!?
If the rain is property and the rainbow is revenue/business- well this means I make it rain where I get the most rainbows.
If the rain is the cost of marketing & rainbows the rewards- would you stand in torrential rain to see a bad rainbow or light rain to see an amazing rainbow.
Using data, I’m going where the rain/rainbow ratio is the best!
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Well from what I can see here, there’s good news and bad news. The bad news is Base Property are going lose 2,429 leads a year. The good news is you’re going to save yourself £1,800 a year.
Can I ask you something? Who does your lets?
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simply not true, and it’s the thick end of 20k a year.
The stock is still out there in easily accessed alternate channels, any serious buyer not prepared to bookmark half a dozen sources for the period that they are looking before they disappear for x no of years until they need property services again fine, I’ll sell it to somebody else, the right house at the right money handled by people who know what they’re doing.
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Each to their own! The more agencies leaving Rightmove, the better it will be for us. I just don’t think a CEO of Base Properties & The Depositary, should be making private emails public, without the consent of each party.Attention seeking. Oh, love me… pathetic!
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I’m intrigued to understand why the more agents that leave the better it is for you? Agents means stock means content means traffic. Indeed, each to their own, I don’t see sharing generic and frankly rude emails questioning my business acumen unjust- let’s be clear they didn’t send me one of these but multiple. I’ve never worried myself too much about what others, especially those that hold strong opinions whilst masked in anonymity, have on me. As an agent & a supplier I won’t appeal to everyone but I like to think that, by being open, direct & passionate, those I do attract form a strong bond with me and my businesses. If you’d like to take off the mask and debate this with me further under your real name I’d happily discuss further.
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You’re still thinking about the bad news aren’t you?
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You’re new here, aren’t you?
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There is no bad news. They never supplied 2400 leads but 2400 enquiries. Take off at least 20% who never respond when chased. Take of 20% overlap if email & calls and at least 10% multi enquiries from 1 applicant- so that’s 1200 leads. But leads are irrelevant- business generated is all that matters. At least 90% of the applicants RM generated will find us through other means- so I was effectively paying RM £24k a year for 120 leads. As I’ve said multiple times- this isn’t an emotional decision but a data based one- I am passionate about my business and the service/support I get from the partners I choose to spend my hard earned money with. I have spent somewhere in the region of £200k in the last 14 years with RM- not that you’d know it from the ‘service’ we had.
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This is so unprofessional to share email threads. Regardless of the situation, this shouldn’t be shared without the consent of the sender.
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Point us all to the law that is being broken here. I’ll wait.
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I didn’t saw a law was broken, I was simply saying that I feel it is unprofessional. That is my opinion on this.
It is not illegal, but it is a tort which exposes you to legal liability (i.e. you can be sued): Copyright Infringement, since the copyright on E-mail (as with paper) remains with the author, unless otherwise explicitly reassigned.
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So we’ll await the suit from Rightmove then, agreed?
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I can’t comment on what they would do, it is just how I feel as a business owner myself. You mentioned legal, not me….. I only stated I felt it was unprofessional and you changed that to ‘what law was broken’.
I am over this thread now, it was a fun bit of reading this morning.
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We’ve been lucky to lose very few clients over the years. However when this has happened, after a polite & respectful discussion to understand why and trying to resolve those issues, we have politely let them go. We have respected their decision, advised we are here if/when they need us and wish them the best of luck.
What we haven’t done is: question their competence in making this decision, compiled eroneous & misleading stats to suit our purpose, ignored their feedback completely, sent ongoing generic emails in the same vein.
Had we done so I would have understood our clients decision to share our conduct and publicly review us accordingly.
If you would like to debate this matter further under your own name rather than a handle I would readily welcome that.
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Well done Kristjan
I left them last May and have not suffered.
Rightmove are an arrogant and most hateful company in the way they treat their customers. I am not anti Rightmove as a platform but the people behind the business are horrid…
Hope they get their just desserts.
Maybe we will end up post lockdown with some economically priced choices, but I hope we dont all give it to Zoopla on a plate otherwise we may regret creating another monster!!
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Rightmove exposed, on so many levels.
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Hi All,
I just wanted to add statistic for our branch in North London as of all leads received overnight till now;
1. Rightmove -3
2. Zoopla – 5
3. On The Market – 5
4. One Dome – 8 (This a FREE portal linked with Facebook)
And the above statics are not only for today they have ben the same since the lockdown.. We joined One Dome about 3 weeks ago.
Before the lockdown Rightmove leads were as the lowest, OnTheMarket was the main lead provider.
thanks
stay safe
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When’s your RM notice going in?
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********* strike again!
Their corporate holier-than-thou attitude to doing business with any of us never changes and, for anyone that wants to disagree, good luck when you are paying double in two years to cover the costs of all of us that actually had the cahooners to do something about it.
Left in April 2019 and have never regretted it, business is flourishing without it! Just so pleased to see so many others finally coming to their senses and following through, this will only be a turning point where the portals learn something if we make it stick.
Every single one of those emails is a standard stock Rightmove response held in a shared folder for all their staff to access that says ‘What to send to a leaving customer’. We are of such little significance in Rightmoves opinion that they can’t even generate a custom heartfelt email when losing business…. that should tell you all you need to know. So, to all those above commenting about it not being right these are shared, they are shared every day at the moment by Rightmove staff to their customers. The only custom wording is the emails from Kristjan who only seeks to tell them exactly how we all feel about them and rather eloquently given the responses he gets.
Time they realised they need to take stock, reassess their position and stop biting the hand that feeds them! What is it Sally Lawson says at the moment? You are either using this time to enhance your business or eroding it… sit up and listen Rightmove!
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Thanks for the (almost all) lovely comments.
I would first like to say that I do not hold our AM Harry accountable he is merely doing as mandated.
Our decision to leave was a data driven decision- even if I bring emotion to my arguments.
Our whole approach to marketing is changing. We hope it will work, we believe our decision is right but we hope RM will start listening & create a product & service that delivers on all levels.
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Your “exchange” clearly demonstrates the facts/passion involved, which are replicated across the industry.
As “Harry’s” responses demonstrate – Rightmove do not listen and proactively respond. They simply pull a one-sided reply
Just picture Rightmove as a 1000 foot high solid wall – and all we do is stand at the foot of it shouting. They just hear a squeaking noise and continue to do, what they have always done.
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We left yesterday too.
Two branches in SE London. We received the same generic email regarding leaving.
This is also the same account manager that told me to my face that Rightmove were not increasing their charges, then when I wanted to change my package I was immediately told the basic package had gone up in price (by about 30%!).
I was wrongly qouted three different prices for said basic package!
Absolutely shambles and their behaviour over the last few weeks just reinforces how little they care and distant they are from their paying clients.
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Not a lot different to the emails I received on leaving 18 months ago. I ended up feeling that I was communicating with a computer apart from a call on our last day demanding I removed their stickers from my window. Stickers that had been binned the day they arrived.
Hopefully they are finally getting a taste of their own medicine. As I have previously posted you don’t need them and the savings You will make will no doubt come in useful in the next couple of months. I have also given Zoopla notice and as of today am only using OTM. No point in wasting money using these websites for the next few months.
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Harry is a nice young man – about 20 I think.
Tried to tell me how to run an estate agency when he is still running to catch a bus to work in the mornings. Bless him, don’t hate him, just pity his career choice.
Then again someone has to work in a slaughter house.
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Well done KB you are leading an industry to better safer more sustainable ground .
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You’re still thinking about the bad news aren’t you?
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All the portals are engaged in an internal war to oust each other at the expense of estate agents. I have issued a similar letter to another portal following pressure to sign yet another contract in the middle of a global pandemic and myself recovering from COVID-19 while still running my business now online paying staff rent and portal fees. Why are we paying these companies when we can not act on any of the enquires? The amount of viewing requests from the public has created confusion in house hunters as all of the properties are still advertised making them think there’s a chance to buy. We are paying colossal amounts to bottom feeders that rely on estate agents for their business and each and every one of them have increased their fees during Brexit and now these counter offers to oust each other during Coronavirus is sickening and disgusting. They do NOT have our interests at heart and it’s cringeworthy hearing them fighting between themselves I am actually going to quit them all. The greed and unscrupulous nature and the ridiculous war with each other is pathetic. I’ve been in the industry for over 30 years and saddened to see companies going into administration etc they are not helping us or the public they are lining their own greedy pockets. Yet our fees have to remain competitive. We are being killed off by them so they can take over the whole market. What sort of people do that? It’s no wonder we have a bad reputation as estate agents yet the public are unaware of the spiralling costs of agents paying portals. They are no better than double glazing sales people all about their egos and brand. Meanwhile we are open with no income we are here to help support our customers who have been caught up in the lockdown and are working hard to help them as you all know we get paid on completion
i have new business to last 2 years after he lockdown and that business did not come from portals. It’s back to basics we should drop them all and save ourselves and our customers from their greed.
Worse than a children’s playground.
How about ditching them and giving the money to a worthy cause instead, like the thousands of families facing debt, unemployment and unimaginable grief that this virus has conflicted on the world.
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Good morning Lenny the Letting Agent, how are you said Eddie the Estate Agent?
Well as you know, I’ve been seeing Rita Rightmove and well things haven’t been going that well lately. When we first met she was a lager girl, always producing the goods but now apparently only Champagne is good enough for her and she isn’t producing that much these days if you know what I mean?
Last week I told her its over between us but guess what, she talked nicely, promised that if I bought her that new dress things would improve no end. So I bought her the new dress and guess what – nothing
You’re a decent chap Lenny,why not give Zoe Zoopla or Olive On the Market a call, sure you will have plenty of fun, I’ve tried them both, great results without the champagne said Eddie the Estate Agent
And I think Rita Rightmove has been offering more to Dave the Developer behind my back and he doesn’t even buy her champagne!!! sobs Lenny
Well I’d ring them both if I was you. Catch you later
Lenny Lenny pondered the rest of the day and decided that time was up for Rita Rightmove and that night he was going to tell her straight – no more, he had plenty of offers from Zoe Zoopla or Olive On the Market and who knows he might enjoy saving some of his hard earned cash
Later that night …. telephone rings
Hi Lenny, its Rita Rightmove, how are you? I’ve heard from Eddie the Estate Agent, that you are not happy with me?
Well to be honest Rita, you’ve become a very expensive girlfriend, always asking for extras and promising plenty but things are never any different. Look at last week, you told me if I bought you that dress things between us would improve?
Oh Lenny, you know I do my best for you, but what i really needed were the shoes and the handbag to match. If you have bought them as well everything would be great between us. You’d see such an improvement, I guarantee you will be very happy Lenny. Come on Lenny we been together so long now,have I ever let you down?
Lenny knows he needs to be strong and tell Rita Rightmove, no more Champagne and broken promises but before he knows it out comes the words “Ok Rita lets go shopping!!”
The moral of the story – Don’t be a Lenny
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Well done
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Thank you for a little lightness and a chuckle…..
to follow on…
Elan the estate agent thought that by being faithful he would be rewarded for the loyalty so Elan never entertained Rita ever, Rita warned him that without her his business would not take off……Elan thought he would take the risk anyway, he wasn’t the sort of chap to make showy gestures and he knew his place, he thought Rita was a bit of a narcissist when he saw the 80’s style powerpoint presentation when pitching for business. Also Rita had been around the block a bit and Elan fancied something a little less tainted.
He had many years of wisdom under his modest belt….. but he did entertain Zac Zoopla and Odis On the Market….
Funny he never felt the need to contact them but they showed a very keen interest to the point that Elan felt extremely flattered. Relentless pursuit…Like all parasitic relationships though sadly it was pure manipulation. Poor Elan, he had worked so hard all of his life and thought he was valued. Elan was a father himself so when Zac and Odis started fighting he thought about how he could deal with the situation.
Both of them had been fighting non stop and they did not stick to the rules…their ‘friends’ ‘useless enquiries’ had been taking up a lot of his time and they never thanked him or asked him if ‘useless enquiries’ produced any money for the household.
Elan was sad when Brexit came into the picture, another mouth to feed he thought, Brexit was scapegoated so badly Elan even considered sending Brexit to therapy.
Coronavirus came next, Zac and Odis stepped up their game, Elan had reasoned with them and entertained their expenses which were becoming to look a lot like Rita’s.
Elan decided that a global pandemic was good enough reason to permanently ground Zac and Odis, since they were incapable of sorting out their fight themselves and kept hitting his wallet. Like he told his children…YOU ARE ALL AS BAD AS EACH OTHER. EVERYONE GROUNDED.
In some strange Stockholm Syndrome, some of Elan’s real friends started to expose Rita for the rip off she is, but they forgot about Zac and Odis simmering away in the background.
Be an Elan, ground the lot of them.
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What will the end be? too many Lennys and Children running around everywhere?
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