I wonder how many detractors of OnTheMarket have been eyeing their most recent portal bills with Rightmove and Zoopla and are starting to question just how long they can continue to give away their profits to someone else’s shareholders.
I suppose it is different if you happen to be one of those shareholders, like the top three corporates Countrywide, Connells and LSL, who all have shares in Zoopla. They’ll inevitably benefit for as long as Zoopla maintains its no. 2 position in the portal war.
But mark my words, OnTheMarket will catch up and overtake Zoopla in the not too distant future. Look how far it’s come in just a year.
It’s always difficult to put a timeframe on these things but the hard work from this fledgling portal is paying off and agents like us are reaping the benefits, particularly in terms of better quality leads.
And as Zoopla loses market share, so its value will slip. When it is no longer the second largest website, agents will need to decide whether they pander to the greed of shareholders or whether to choose the mutually beneficial OnTheMarket.
I’ve listened to the detractors, those that said OnTheMarket would have to drop its ‘one other portal rule’ and that it would ‘fizzle out’ before its first birthday. Well, guess what, they were wrong. The best anniversary present you can give to OnTheMarket is to take the leap of faith. It’s time estate agents took far greater control of their own destiny.
Keep an eye on the dodgy deals
In this day and age, everyone wants a bargain. Cheap stores, pound shops, voucher sites, online agents and yes, even private sales after an agent has introduced a buyer.
Yet there was a time when the public recognised that buying and selling property was a complex process and rarely straightforward. They might not have trusted us – as the latest Ipsos MORI ‘Veracity Index’ suggests – but they understood there was more to the transaction than just introducing two parties.
Now, however, we have to keep a closer eye than ever on people seeking to do private deals. At Spicerhaart, we have a specialist team who have clawed back £250,000 in fees which should have been paid to us for introductions.
But not every organisation is of the size or has the manpower to keep an eye on sellers who pull their property off the market. It’s a full time job in itself trying to keep tabs on those who have supposedly ‘changed their mind’.
We often catch people out when they find themselves in a chain that we’re involved in. That’s where local knowledge proves its weight in gold. We also keep a close eye on Land Registry information, to see if a property has been sold.
There will always be people who try to cut their own deals, however hard you try to explain the value of what you do. Those cries of ‘My agent didn’t do anything for me’ just don’t cut the mustard.
Should we all do more to capture the data of lost sales to our industry?
Are you yourself doing enough to keep tabs on the problem to ensure income isn’t slipping away? I’m curious to know just how much of a problem it is and whether companies are willing to go to court to get what’s rightfully owed. Or whether you choose to walk away and let people who cheat the system get away with it.
Now that’s different
Hugh Hefner reckons his Playboy mansion is worth $200 million dollars now. Not bad for a $1 million dollar investment in 1971. Who wouldn’t like to hear the realtor’s patter as they take prospective purchasers around for viewings, not least because Hefner wants to stay put and be part of the package.
So what’s the weirdest situation you’ve found yourself in when valuing a property for sale? Do you find yourself turning a blind eye when you see things that make you shudder?
I’ve had plenty to talk about over the years. The strangest I’ve had was the couple who said that no-one was allowed to see or photograph their third bedroom. When I insisted that I needed to see it in order to sell, I was eventually shown in.
Inside was a shrine to Hitler, containing a vast selection of memorabilia. The couple asked me not to comment and asked whether they could put a cover over everything when people came to view. I did, of course, recommend they removed the items and we duly listed the property, only for them to withdraw it from sale eight weeks later! I’ve often wondered whether it is still there to this day.
Have you any unusual stories to share?
Mr Smith, I am going to respect this website’s call to improve the quality of posts and avoid personal attack, but I am compelled to respond and ask you a few questions.
When my Rightmove and Zoopla bill turns up, and I look at what I am getting for my money, I may not be entirely happy but at least I can see I am getting value for money.
When I get my OnTheMarket invoice, if I am paying £50 per month, like so many new agents to OnTheMarket are benefiting from, I am probably fairly happy. Yes, I’m not getting much/anything from it, but its not really costing me anything.
But If I am paying £300 per month and have invested thousands into the project, I am pretty darned miffed.
When I get my invoice from OnTheMarket and I realise that the board is acting in its own interests and wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds of my money developing an international channel which will not be subject to the same rules as the UK channel and does absolutely nothing for me but plenty for the board members, I am pretty miffed.
I also get pretty miffed that when all marketing in December is stopped across the UK, but I am seeing OnTheMarket advertising on central London taxis everywhere I turn, who is the beneficiary there?
Add all of this up, and I am not really in the giving mood at the anniversary of OnTheMarket; especially when Agents Mutual has given so much to Rightmove – the target of most agent’s ire – by doubling their share price. Any pretence that Rightmove can somehow be ‘taken on’ is beyond madness and will surely accelerate disruption to our industry.
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HarryN – Sorry not reading back to find out or to try and second guess….. so forgive me but if you have posted this before…..but
What do you do? Are you an indep EA? or Corp EA? If indep, how many offices do you have and are you a Senior Manager, Director or Negotiator?
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Ric, why the obsession about who I am and what I do? The point of these forums is that it provides a level playing field, surely?
The reason that many agents have found themselves in this predicament is because they have obsessed over who is saying stuff, rather than thinking about what is being said.
That goes right to the top of this project. This is not a criticism of Ian Springett, but it is an observation: just because he managed to make a relative success of Primelocation, that does not mean he can make a success of Agents Mutual. The competitive climate was different when Primelocation launched (remember that agents gave Primelocation complete exclusivity), the technology was different then (there was no mobile or social media to navigate – both of which the major portals have trumped) and the audience size was different then (Zoopla’s 50 million monthly visits and Rightmove’s 100 million are 1000X Primelocation traffic in the early days). The level of digital understanding that is needed to build and support a modern portal is infinitely more complex than back in 2006 (and remember that Primelocation sold in 2006).
Many agents were led into this because someone influential in their local area told them it would deliver what they wanted. They were wrong.
So my advice is to not allow yourself to get blinded by the ‘who’, but instead to properly consider the ‘what’ and ‘how’.
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Harry, I am sooooooo not obsessed with who you are TRUST ME (and I am an Estate Agent!) I am sure your anti-AM posts by far out number my requests to know who HarryN is!
It would level the playing field to know who everyone is to be fair, otherwise I could get 100 people to boast how they have had an increase in leads since being on OTM (yet non of the 100 are even industry related) – Point being it is nice to understand what the business interests of some posters are… (my opinion) So knowing some on here personally and others like smileplease through a balanced debate, I get their feelings….. yours I can’t really understand.
I am merely trying to understand the business background to your view point? You are Miffed at a lot of things which in theory (even you must agree) you should not be miffed about as a non supporter….. unless RM or Z have written to you and said your fees are increasing because of OTM…. then I would be miffed also! Has this happened? Have you lost business because of OTM (as an Agent)? or perhaps you have lost commission as a portal rep?
Some on here are very balanced in their non support – some just sound so bitter and it makes you think they must have a hidden agenda?
Some supporters (I like to think I am this type) admit that it would be great if it (OTM) could work but either way I and they are not going to lose any sleep as I and they respect our company brands more than the portals.
So…… come on Harry, what do you do? I hate to say I take your first reply as you are either not eligible to be on OTM as a company or you are/were property portal related be it ex or current employee of one.
Anyway, have a good day, don’t let this get you down too much, its only a website……
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As Paddy McGuinness says every Saturday night ‘mystery man..reveal yourself’. Come on HarryN, don’t keep us all in the dark. BTW, I have stated repeatedly on here that I am not an agent.
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Let the Harry meet the Houdini……
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You also puzzle me HarryN with being “very miffed” a lot in that post…….
If you are not on OTM – Why would you be getting so miffed at everything? Does the Taxi bit annoy you, as Z and RM are not on it and you have to ride around in something that “gets you miffed”?
I just cannot get why someone who thinks something will not work and supports the other two, can be so vocal in condemning OTM for (in your opinion strengthening the other two) surely this works well for you and your company is excelling whilst the OTM supporters struggle? Or are you trying to help us all save money and acutally doing a good deed.
As a Man City Fan, I may take to a Man U forum and tell em how miffed I am at LVG and how miffed I am that they are not doing as well as my beloved whilst letting em know I support Citeh! Genuinely Odd you would be so bothered about something you hate so much and so convinced will never work.
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Here’s a question for you HarryN
Did you really expect that OTM would go from a standing start to offering the same value for money as RM overnight ?
Here’s an idea, why not wait until all the hard work has been done by everybody else in getting OTM to the number one spot and then sign up when you will be guaranteed enough bang for your buck.
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‘Here’s an idea, why not wait until all the hard work has been done by everybody else in getting OTM to the number one spot and then sign up when you will be guaranteed enough bang for your buck.’
Best idea ever!!
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its not the best idea ever, its exactly the sort of narrow minded and non committal view which will see it fail.
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No quite, my narrow minded non committal view has not seen my money invested in an International arm while their UK side was at a standstill and which to a vast majority of their members counts for nothing and has also not seen my money put into Country Life Magazine or London black cabs.
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if you are so convinced you can get OTM for £50 Harry and you would be ‘fairly happy’ at that, whilst not ‘entirely happy’ with your RM and Z bills, sounds to me like you should be OTM plus 1.
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HarryN very short sighted. lets have a chat when RM start becoming an online portal to combat the other entrants and dump the agents as they will have critical mass then and wont need us!!!
don’t disagree with overseas property bit though – AM need to concentrate on increase our leads in the UK before they start fannying about abroad……….badly advised on that one!!!
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Funny you talk about catching those people avoiding paying fees.Zoopla have just that tool for those of us who can’t afford “a department” to do this for us . It’s free of charge for me . Perhaps it would have been better for OTM to do something similar rather than an overseas portal? Just saying
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I’m sorry but who is getting more ‘quality’ leads from OTM? I have seen our leads drop from around 30 a week with Zoopla to less than ten a week with OTM and the last lead we got from them came in as a valuation but was a guy looking to rent a property in an area we do not even cover!
For the purposes of any vitriolic reply; I am referring to a three office business and the figures and case quoted above is for one of those offices with a rental stock of around 15-20 and sales stock of around 50-60.
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I’m in the Midlands, two branch, stock of 120 … getting more quality leads from OTM then I ever did with Z … I can’t actually ever recall receiving a quality Z lead that resulted in business. Whether that’s our geographical location or not I don’t know …. round here all vendors expect is RM and this is where 85% of our leads come from. OTM give us 15% at almost 15% of the cost.
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It must be regional then. We are Cheshire and at this point are thinking of switching back. Zoopla leads were always as good quality as RM, if not better!
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Another factor may be the number of your local agents who are signed up. All the independents in our village have moved to OTM but the corporates and larger indis from our nearest town have stayed with Z. They seem to be winning more of our business than they ever used to!
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Mr Smith.
Re: OTM: the site doesn’t have market traction sufficient for me spend a single penny. £50 to sign up? The real cost is the lost leads worth thousands if you don’t have RM and Z .
Re: Dodgy Deals: If you think your chaps are so good at finding private deals that should have gone to the agent why not offer it out to all at say 15% of the income regained. I appreciate you don’t want to help the competition but your outfit is a fraction of the whole market, you’d be crazy not to.
I re-sold a house once lived in by a mass murderer. And yes I told the buyers who’d lived there before they viewed.
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HarryN, you just say the same things every day in a different word order. We get youre not an OTM fan so stop being so annoyed by it. I think you should also answer the question put to you by Ric as Im not sure what angle you are seeing this from. Just so you know, and as Ive said on here before I have a three branch network in the north (ind high street agent). your turn……….?
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I am sorry if this has already been said isn’t paul smith on the board of AM / OM ?doesn’t his organisation benefit greatly from his presence there.
We are negotiators by our very nature, I have managed to negotiate a very good deal with both RM and Zoopla we are not a large company 3 offices so why cant everyone negotiate a good deal for themselves??
I have monitored our leads and results from both portals and both are very cost effective.
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‘I have managed to negotiate a very good deal with both RM and Zoopla we are not a large company 3 offices so why cant everyone negotiate a good deal for themselves??’
Can you not even see the irony in what your have posted here? Do you honestly believe you would have been able to negotiate a deal at all if OTM wasn’t on the scene?
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It’s this kind of rant that worries me about what this group are doing for the reputation of UK agency. Here’s a few points:
“And as Zoopla loses market share, so its value will slip.” — This makes it sound like agents are a pack of wolves hunting down Z. Appalling.
“The best anniversary present you can give to OnTheMarket is to take the leap of faith.” — Why on earth should I risk jobs and give presents to OTM???
“It’s time estate agents took far greater control of their own destiny.” — I am in control (are you not?) but by centralising all power to this closed committee is the greatest trojan horse the industry faces
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I think we can discount HarryN as someone who has an invested interest in Z and Rmv.
The points he makes are so irrelevant to what OTM seeks to do in the future.
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What you say is dangerous.
If you place your trust on who is telling you something rather than what they are saying, and then applying your own reasoning, then you will surely be led astray.
It is this sycophantic intellectual laziness (chosing who says over what is said) that is the foundation of so many cults.
Please think for yourself.
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I think for myself that by supporting OTM I can save many thousands of pounds by not getting ripped off for my portal advertising.
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You sound like a boastful Online Agent – I can save many thousands of pounds by not getting ripped off for my portal advertising
How can you save thousands unless you drop RM? Taking into account that most believe that would be suicide not to be on RM at this time.
If you were previously on Z and have switched to OTM there is little saving (unless you’ve bagged a new £50 per month deal of course?)
If you weren’t on Z and now you’ve added a 2nd portal you are now out of pocket not saving thousands.
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I am a businessman and of course my comments were based on OTM becoming big enough for me to drop RM
Zoopla did not work for me, even when they gave me a fantastic discount for over 6 months.
I strongly believe that OTM can be a challenger to RM and dearly hope that Estate agents up and down the land can have a cost effective vehicle to advertise their properties on.
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Oh dear
“It’s always difficult to put a timeframe on these things”……. BUT OTM did?
Wasn’t 1 year the timeframe?. IF I went into dragons den with a product that I didn’t meet its first year targets and say ‘it’s difficult to put a timescale on these things’ I’d be laughed out. shocking…
if it was difficult to say how long it would take then why did you set an unachievable target of 1 year?
OTM has come a long way but it’s got a long way to go and one slip up could lose the lot. ‘Good luck but I wont be investing yet!!!’
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For all the pro and con comments that you post for otm and z (and none of you post negative against the one you were supposed to depose, RM! ) you seem to omit that you are still paying for one of the top two whilst arguing against the one you are not on! (Z or otm)
Why dont you stop giving all the BS of the positives of otm, there aren’t many and I’m sorry but Z is not going to collapse overnight anymore than otm will disappear or get to number 2 and start getting to the core of what we still need.
It seems there will now be 3 main portals so lets stop slating each others business decisions and accept that area for area there is a stronghold for one portal against another.
Mr Smith will advocate otm until the cows come home or until his company rekindle the flame with tesco’s so ignore his biased comments and that includes the “look how far its come in just a year” it has spent circa 12 mill in a year so of course it had legs, ignore harryn doing his worst, ignore otm’s claim for No.2 spot within a year (what were they supposed to say, yeah we think No. 3 spot is likely in the not too distant!!) and lets get some REAL numbers from otm and enable us to make an informed good business decision. The stock market calls for rm and z to reveal results for their shareholders, this encourages investors to invest or run a mile, WHAT is different for otm other than they don’t have to reveal anything which doesn’t help their current investors (members) or any could be investors, so springett or whoever please stand up and provide figures excluding the pitiful grasping at straws growth of letters of intent and maybe, could be investors will come running to join.
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Actually Springett is providing figures, to his members at this time and over the next month but you have to be in to hear and then I would be very surprised if a public announcement is not made.
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For the record I shall be asking some searching questions and happily post them on Eye.
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I, like many fence sitters(non members/potential members), loved the idea of OTM but despair at its current direction/non direction.
We are now a year on and we are still being told ‘to take a leap of faith.’ There are no figures to back this up (other than the first 12 million marketing budget that has now disappeared) and wisely, given its past record, no future prediction of any timescales.
What have OTM learned from this initial 12 months? Well I believe there has been 1 vote in that time which was wisely rejected by the masses. However that was the last time the masses were trusted with a vote. I believe since then there was no ‘mutual’ vote for Overseas properties, nor for the Country Life deal, nor for London only advertising, nor for whether to keep or bin the one other portal rule (though apparently this rule is being flouted anyway by some?) nor for whether £50 deals should be done or not to boost numbers. Other than the deal on fees the organisation seems reluctant to change direction, listen to advice or suggestions from either members or non-members who are, of course, potential new members.
I appreciate that no organisation can expect to vote on every little detail but these are major issues. For a so called mutual sadly it shows many Dictator like qualities.
OTM isn’t going to disappear as it has so many people tied up in 5 year contracts. It will not get many signing to a 5 year contract today (unless its at £50).
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I will take you your concerns when I am and other AM members are at the forthcoming seminars with Springett.
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Now how can that get a dislike, says a lot as to the intentions of some?
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Interesting to see “Harry hood” continues to dodge the question but if you read his grammar and tone in all his posts it doesn’t take Sherlock Homes to deduce he isn’t an estate agent. His jargon and understanding of estate agency is so lacking at times, even a newbie negotiator could answer better. Is he nothing more than a Troll?
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Thanks Wt, I look forward to seeing them, for the right reasons of course.
Have a good weekend all
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Yes, been saying it for months. Portal rep written all over it for me, do we really need to guess which one?
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