Traffic figures for OnTheMarket increased again throughout August to achieve another record-breaking month.
The website achieved more than 5.4m visits – a rise of more than 220,000 compared to the previous month.
It also attracted more than 2.5m unique visitors, an increase of 100,000 compared with July.
The figures were measured using Google Analytics.
Chief executive Ian Springett said: “In just seven months we have dramatically changed the portal landscape, but this is still only the beginning.
“Our traffic, agent membership and property listings all continue to grow month-on-month.
“We remain confident that it’s only a matter of time before we overtake Zoopla as the No. 2 portal in terms of property listings and then focus directly on providing agents and consumers alike with a credible alternative to Rightmove.”
OTM said it will be running its TV advert campaign this month. It will be screened over 2,500 times in three weeks.
Using Google Analytics ….. Speaks for itself
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Google Analytics uses JavaScript tags to collect data. This industry-standard method yields reliable trends and a high degree of precision.
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You can also pull data in various ways, getting very different results. Especially on a private source. No 2 won’t happen, besides, on what stat? Number of properties, visitors, page hits (like they mean anything), or importantly leads? My guess, non of the above, but I’m sure Mr S will come up with some dodgy stat to use as #2, after all he talks a fair of it. Perhaps second highest CEO annual salary in the property industry, or 2nd highest number of agents leaving a property site in a 12 month period.
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1TB – your rather worrying obsession with Mr Springett’s alleged salary level is going to earn you the currently available title of The Official EYE #bunnyboiler
You’re welcome to it – the last holder simply wasn’t up to the job but you’ve definitely proved you’ve got staying power…
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It’s not fair….. he earns more than me….. blubber blubber. Very funny.
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Doomed to fail.
Why should I use OTM
this morning checked some areas
RM = 325
Z = 179
OTM = 76 You may take Harrt from this and end up with about 4
Area 2
RM = 15
Z = 9
OTM = 2
Area 3
RM = 183
Z = 145
OTM = 22
Even if the numbers for OTM improve given these figures users are soon going to loose interest in both OTM and Z, why go to a shop that does not provide all you want, AlDi and Lidl prosper due to PRICE.
What does OTM offer the buyer that the other two do not? Once you can offer something then and only then can you hope to achieve.
You may ask why I use all, I look for bargains if you only use OTM, I would expect to find some bargains as you have limited your market.
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“You may ask why I use all, I look for bargains…”
Well – to be frank if you’re looking on OTM you shouldn’t find any.
Estate Agents are required by Legislation to work in the best interests of their client – not simply palm it off for pocket change to and any old Tom, Dick or Harry.
There’s plenty on the other portals that don’t know how to negotiate – and don’t need to.
They will love you.
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Also Wheres the talk of Christmas gone , number 2 by Christmas was all over the place at the start of the year …. Now it’s a matter of time … Weird
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Never said which Christmas….. and stop worry about it mate….. if it is doomed move on and get buying shares in Z’s other project! that way you can support Z and Online Agency all at the same time.
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Hang on Ric. This website purports to serve information which is useful to us (agents). Can we at least get some sort of 3rd party corroboration? Are their numbers accurate and how do they compare to RM/Z? Otherwise how do we know whether this is just unsubstantiated piffle or genuine news?
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I’m hanging on, but only with the will to live over Z and OTM hitting each other with pillows.
So my view EHenderson – I don’t care who has the most hits, lets be fair RM has the most and I don’t promote that either! I am not entirely sure any agent who is just getting on with their job and listing houses, turning them into sales and completions and getting local recommendations cares either and doubt any of them (I certainly don’t) talk about which portals get the most hits.
It seems and I am pretty sure ONLY “some” EYE and EAT readers who care that much about who has the most visits.
I want OTM to work and it has by slowing Z down and has it seems had an impact on how RM deal with me (for the better) but this is bl99dy boring now.
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Your right Ric, my mistake , he said end of January on May15th 2015, he was confident of being the UK’s second biggest portal. If he does I’ll give him my turkey and all my cracker presents
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So I’m clear then, the argument here is not whether OTM will overtake Zoopla, but whether it would be by Christmas as predicted?!!
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The only Christmas prediction for me is that The Poseidon Adventure will be on TV and it will not snow!
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Before I opened this story I wrote two names down; EHenderson and Danny. Slam dunk!
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to be fair to them they do have valid points, not just ranting.
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I didn’t say they aren’t correct, I’m not knocking their opinions but OTM is their subject and as soon as OTM gets mentioned pro and anti line up for the same scrap. If Danny put some meat on the bones of his first post it could be discussed.
2Google analytics speaks for itself” yes but what does it say? Danny isn’t going to expand on that because Google analytics say something but no-one has quantified how hits, page views, time on site, traffic etc relate to sales. Until that is done any argument and that is what this always becomes is meaningless. either way.
Any portal can claim what it likes about its numbers but the KPIs for Rightmove will be different across the country and will be different from Zooplas, until performance is measured it is like arguing which way the wind blows
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equally valid comment! – It all is getting very boring, the pro and anti’s. I think everybody agrees in principle with OTM its a shame discussion does not involve how to move it on instead of shouting everybody down.
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Robert, my point about google analytics, name another online business of size that uses google analytics with no clarity on what they are asking google to tell them ? It’s a sham
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It is no more a sham than forced triplication of; search, result, filter result and allowing a single enquiry to be counted at least 3 times.
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Ok so Christmas target does not get hit and lets say the numbers were 10,000 less than reported based on a another source to collect the data….
What then…. you, danny and EHenderson are going to pop out and list more houses than usual?
What is the obsession with having a number reported which will make no difference to how you perform on a local level?
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I have never said i will list more.
From a commercial point of view you should never make targets you are uncertain you may not hit. Does not inspire confidence in investors or this case agents.
I am not knocking OTM Ric, just agreeing that there are worth while talking points which should be discussed to move it forward (not to put the boot in).
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What points can possibly be discussed to “move it forward” so to speak. You have……….
1. Those who support OTM and have signed up.
2. Some who want to support/join it but cannot due to their business model.
3. Those who will never support/join it.
4. Some would support/join it IF they (OTM) get to number 2 spot.
1, 2 and 3 will not change now for some time if ever. Only own goals by RM/Z or OTM will have these change camp.
Countless times we have asked what are the number 4’s waiting for to get them to join and the problem is the number 1’s need the number 4’s to join to get to where OTM wants to be.
The number 3’s however are getting their way because the number 4’s just don’t get it.
OTM needs more branches, which will equal more property which will lead to more hits and visits etc, but ultimately the “need” is simple….. more property….. The number 1’s can only do so much now.
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I think thats the issue, its too simple to say more property more agents.
The question is how to attract those agents with concerns.
You hit the nail on the head, Number 1’s have got it this far (which is an achievement in itself). The discussion without all the mud slinging and shouting down is how is it possible to move it on?
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You tell me as a number 4 (from memory)
What is the stat which will make sp become a No. 1.
oh and talk of dropping RM will not happen without No.2 status for OTM nor can a “time be given” for such an event (phase 2 as it was dubbed) until No.2 status is achieved.
So what is the stat, message, sign or whatever which will make you help push it to the next level….?
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Kinda number 4 but still not convinced, its all about moving away from RM for me.
And thats the crux of the issue, for me i need to see more thought being put into this to drive it forward.
I will happily sign up today, if i thought it may even take a year to get there but i dont have that confidence at this time, missing deadlines they set themselves also makes me question they will hit it at all.
This is a true account of my latest “Chat” with OTM. By the way i am not using this to stick the knife in, i am just using it to highlight one of the issues i have with them.
I was called up by what i guess is their call center, a pleasant chap wanted to book the area rep to come and see me. No problem i will clear my diary, always happy to listen and see if the option is right for me, maybe things have moved on at a local level where i can invest/support.
Appointment was made a week in advance.
I receive a phone call an hour before the meeting from the same call center advising me the rep will not be able to make it.
Not that the rep was ill, but he had other appointments. (to me sounded like he had forgot).
This is a company looking for me to pay £400 PER OFFICE, PER MONTH. And they cannot even be bothered to keep an appointment.
Now if they cannot even keep an appointment that was booked a week in advance, how can i have confidence they can engineer a mass exodus from RM?
This was a number of weeks ago and they have still not called me to rebook.
Now that is not my only reason not to support but does not do them any favours.
For me if i saw on a local level agents working together to put a plan together to move away from RM i would join.
Now there maybe another plan which may work better i have not heard, but thats the problem, OTM, reps, other agents are not talking about it.
It all just boils down to trust us we will get there, for me thats not enough.
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No excuse for cancelling the meeting and AM should look at this closely as you and alike are the best potential of OTM getting to No.2.
Can’t excuse that can you! especially not calling back to reschedule and make it happen.
If this is enough in itself for you not to support OTM then fair play. I don’t have any Virgin products for a similar reason, even though I can get the same as I do now with Sky for less if I use Virgin.
Tough one as I get your feelings towards them as a company based on the above.
Take note AM if the above is indeed as it happened! Missed opportunity perhaps.
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It would be harsh of me to discount them just for a cancelled meeting and by no means do i think of them like i do BT (Now thats a company i cannot stand!).
What is does show is the thought out and planning is not there. i said sometime back the OTM need a local president / team leader that keeps people updated and put plans together to move it forward.
I still stand by this is the best method to move OTM /AM forward.
If i was invited once a month / quarter to a meeting telling me what the local agents want to put into place and how they will get there i will have much greater confidence that agent can work together for the greater good.
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yeah…. smile please?…. I know how it goes….. The Portal Ark?….. yip, built!…. folk boarding 2 x 2…. but you are just standing there on the portal harbour….. waiting?….thinking?….waiting?…..thinking?…..waiting?….thinking?……..Zzzzzzzzzzzz…. oops!…. it sailed without you!
Thinkers? Waiters? Do’ers!
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GPL with respect thats the attitude that is to some extent holding OTM back. Shouting at people to get on board a boat they do not feel is sea worthy will never inspire confidence.
Maybe the captain and sailors should prove the boat worthy, that way they may fill up not only a boat but a fleet.
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and 6 was scared to say anything because he was next to 7 and 7 , 8, 9…….
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Whats all the fuss about – OTM are already number 2 in my area, Change is afoot – deal with it.
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smile please…. as I’ve said before…. if I had waited to commit when A was lined up with B and B was lined up with C….. and so it goes….. when you burst into flames thinking about it….. will you decide to put the fire out or just keep thinking? In every sense action speaks volumes if one considers the Estate Agency Industry…. and there is the difference!…. I didn’t decide if it was best for me, I decided I couldn’t stand gawping at the roadside…. I had to commit.
You didn’t … that’s your choice… for whatever reason.
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But here’s the twist.
I have not said you are wrong for doing it.
But you as a member want more members to make it grow (understandably).
But all you do is keep shouting join. and this is indicative of OTM.
Maybe the ‘Pitch’ needs to be changed to get more members. otherwise you belong to a club, a club you like but does not challenge on all fronts.
I say this tongue in cheek GPL but you see me and others who have not signed up as the enemy. As opposed to potential future members.
Surely if you have not hit the ultimate goal of being able to walk away from RM you need to be asking how to get there and actually trying to put a pitch together to obtain more members instead of mocking them?
The piched worked for circa 6000 members which is great, but it now needs changing to get the next 6000.
OTM do not have to significantly change its offering but they have to be more targeted be it in areas or agents. They need more buy in.
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smile please….I don’t see you or any non OTM Member as the enemy? ….I see you as being inactive with regard to the future of our industry. The hidden reps, software, digital detractors on this forum have a different agenda….to disrupt, stifle, detract and ultimately protect their chosen agenda.
I would love to assemble UK Estate Agency and hear their honest real estate agency views/opinions however only if they can suspend their rivalry for a period of time to focus on our industry…. or is our industry already dead?…. I don’t think it is at all…. a client’s property by & large remains their most valuable asset so choosing a real estate agent….rather than an Online Monkey masquerading as an estate agent… remains a priority for vast numbers of UK Homesellers.
If we accept that technology, portals, mobile phones etc do play a larger part in the future of our industry in terms of property advertising…. why would every single real UK Estate Agent not wish to support OTM and help it grow and secure our industry from being used as Window Dressing for other related/un-related products/services…. which we see The Duopoly promoting.
I see OnTheMarket.com as an opportunity to re-focus our industry for the future….. otherwise we will slide like the UK DAIRY Industry into a situation similar to the Dairy Farmer who is left hanging like a lifeless puppet until the Supermarkets choose to pull their strings at the prices which they command.
If Rightmove has taught our industry just one thing….it is the online pull of the property portal… yet we seem unable, unwilling, undermined to actually grasp the concept of supporting our own portal… not to protect our industry from failing but to secure it where it fully represents our industry…. and yes!…. it will have to develop and offer more consumer related features perhaps… however it must remain focused on UK Property and delivering for those that use it…. as it stands today we are supporting a No 1 Portal which rightly is in it to make a profit for itself and its shareholders however it is simply starving our industry, killing it from the inside and effectively becoming the ESTATE AGENCY UK Limited?…. and I never came into this business to work for Rightmove or any other portal.
In reality every non-OTM Member standing by the roadside must take a hard look at the future of our industry…. then choose either A) I’m all right Jack, sod everyone else! or B) I will support/invest with OnTheMarket.com and accept it current flaws/growing pains however give it the support it needs to re-focus our industry! No doubt there will be growing pains however I would much rather our industry failed having tried versus cowering in a corner hoping everything will be alright in the end.
I’ve said before about my past profession decades ago however it enhanced what I still have today…..stepping forward and trying…. I just can’t stand by wondering and gawping, waiting for the right time…. we admire the SAS with their Who Dares Wins motto…. however life these days seems more about Can We Think About It? In this instance…. the thinking, debating, worrying is what is limiting the growth of OnTheMarket.com
The reality remains that many, many of us…including me remain with Rightmove because we are protecting our overall position with regards to portal marketing and client expectations of where their property will be advertised online… however myself and thousands of others made the commitment to OnTheMarket.com…. to enable a future alternative No Choice…. I see it no more complicated than the majority supporting OTM and creating the Tipping Point however I never ever underestimated this task and the effort that Rightmove and others would put into protecting their business?
To Mr Springett and Co….. I would like to see you and your foot soldiers going into the UK ESTATE AGENCY Industry and engaging, galvanising and securing those New OTM Members….. I don’t care much about Rightmove or Zoopla as they are just portal advertising suppliers with little focus on our industry for the future…. I do care what OTM can do for me, our public and our industry for the future. If you can summarise it on the back of a matchbox….. even better!
To the non-OTM Members…. back the future of your industry and join OTM…. You Win, the Public Wins & Our Industry Wins.
….and with that folks, I step off my Soapbox!…. other than a quick reply to the detractors and their GPL Rambles comments…. at least I live & breathe our industry!
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Funny that I put 1 quid at million to 1 on Robert May think I MAY take a holiday now!
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You wouldn’t even get evens, I wouldn’t go higher than 7:10
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The fact is they made a huge deal about being no. 2 by Xmas so don’t try and spin it round. I’ve been keeping an eye on Z’s numbers and they’re still going up?
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I’m interested in OnTheMarket.com membership growth…. for me, that’s the most important number of all…. drive that up and the tremors will be felt in the portal world.
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I was lunching the other day with a close friend who is part of our Portal World and ? announced how ? and others from ? were appalled to read my posts…. and I replied this is 2 friends lunching, not a business meeting! Good to know so many reps from ? and others subscribe to PIE…. however we know that by looking at some of the pro/anti posters on here who wear such a transparent disguise!
At least I wear my Estate Agency Industry Heart where one can see it clearly.
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There is more honesty in saying what you feel and think than ever there is in polite silence, keep it up!
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“We remain confident that it’s only a matter of time before we overtake Zoopla as the No. 2 portal in terms of property listings and then focus directly on providing agents and consumers alike with a credible alternative to Rightmove.”
Odd concept I know but perhaps focusing on what the consumer wants now instead of bickering with Zoopla might get you what you want quicker?
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Ray, could you explain to me what the consumer does want then because I haven’t had anyone telling me they want to use a website with less info and property.
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uh, that was kind of the point Crispy. OTM are wasting more time trying to score points off of Zoopla and throwing out meaningless press releases when they should be concentrating on upping their game, fixing their website and at least trying to advertise their presence to the general public – I haven’t seen their TV campaign on my screen for months.
They are a long way off their target for this year and personally I doubt whether they will make it next year either.
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‘ray comer’ – you say “OTM are wasting more time trying to score points off of Zoopla and throwing out meaningless press releases when they should be concentrating on upping their game…”
They are wasting nothing – because no effort is being expended, Sir.
“They are a long way off their target for this year…”
REALLY? Which ‘target’ are you referring to? How far off-‘target’ are they?
You say you haven’t seen the TV ad for months – maybe your choice of station is the issue rather than lack of airtime.
You say they need to “fix their website” – why would that be? Which bit do you think is broken?
Look forward to your responses…
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Has anyone noticed that the OTM logo is merely a Lambretta badge version of a Google pin?
Also until the site has broken through the barrier of the public consciousness, which having talked to vendors it clearly hasn’t, why would you drop one of the other two which everyone recognises?
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You can ask a fair few agents why dropping Z will make no difference to your business levels BUT will mean you have more cash in the bank at month end – support OTM or not!
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I’ll come back tonight to see if it tops 100. Nothing new so far.
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I smell something very strong, and it’s not dinner cooking.
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Suggest you check your shoes – nobody else mentioned a smell until you came in…
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Shoes good? check breath, check pants!
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GPL
SEPTEMBER 7, 2015 AT 8:57 PM
smile please….I don’t see you or any non OTM Member as the enemy? ….I see you as being inactive with regard to the future of our industry. The hidden reps, software, digital detractors on this forum have a different agenda….to disrupt, stifle, detract and ultimately protect their chosen agenda.
I would love to assemble UK Estate Agency and hear their honest real estate agency views/opinions however only if they can suspend their rivalry for a period of time to focus on our industry…. or is our industry already dead?…. I don’t think it is at all…. a client’s property by & large remains their most valuable asset so choosing a real estate agent….rather than an Online Monkey masquerading as an estate agent… remains a priority for vast numbers of UK Homesellers.
If we accept that technology, portals, mobile phones etc do play a larger part in the future of our industry in terms of property advertising…. why would every single real UK Estate Agent not wish to support OTM and help it grow and secure our industry from being used as Window Dressing for other related/un-related products/services…. which we see The Duopoly promoting.
I see OnTheMarket.com as an opportunity to re-focus our industry for the future….. otherwise we will slide like the UK DAIRY Industry into a situation similar to the Dairy Farmer who is left hanging like a lifeless puppet until the Supermarkets choose to pull their strings at the prices which they command.
If Rightmove has taught our industry just one thing….it is the online pull of the property portal… yet we seem unable, unwilling, undermined to actually grasp the concept of supporting our own portal… not to protect our industry from failing but to secure it where it fully represents our industry…. and yes!…. it will have to develop and offer more consumer related features perhaps… however it must remain focused on UK Property and delivering for those that use it…. as it stands today we are supporting a No 1 Portal which rightly is in it to make a profit for itself and its shareholders however it is simply starving our industry, killing it from the inside and effectively becoming the ESTATE AGENCY UK Limited?…. and I never came into this business to work for Rightmove or any other portal.
In reality every non-OTM Member standing by the roadside must take a hard look at the future of our industry…. then choose either A) I’m all right Jack, sod everyone else! or B) I will support/invest with OnTheMarket.com and accept it current flaws/growing pains however give it the support it needs to re-focus our industry! No doubt there will be growing pains however I would much rather our industry failed having tried versus cowering in a corner hoping everything will be alright in the end.
I’ve said before about my past profession decades ago however it enhanced what I still have today…..stepping forward and trying…. I just can’t stand by wondering and gawping, waiting for the right time…. we admire the SAS with their Who Dares Wins motto…. however life these days seems more about Can We Think About It? In this instance…. the thinking, debating, worrying is what is limiting the growth of OnTheMarket.com
The reality remains that many, many of us…including me remain with Rightmove because we are protecting our overall position with regards to portal marketing and client expectations of where their property will be advertised online… however myself and thousands of others made the commitment to OnTheMarket.com…. to enable a future alternative No Choice…. I see it no more complicated than the majority supporting OTM and creating the Tipping Point however I never ever underestimated this task and the effort that Rightmove and others would put into protecting their business?
To Mr Springett and Co….. I would like to see you and your foot soldiers going into the UK ESTATE AGENCY Industry and engaging, galvanising and securing those New OTM Members….. I don’t care much about Rightmove or Zoopla as they are just portal advertising suppliers with little focus on our industry for the future…. I do care what OTM can do for me, our public and our industry for the future. If you can summarise it on the back of a matchbox….. even better!
To the non-OTM Members…. back the future of your industry and join OTM…. You Win, the Public Wins & Our Industry Wins.
….and with that folks, I step off my Soapbox!…. other than a quick reply to the detractors and their GPL Rambles comments…. at least I live & breathe our industry!
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GPL…Brilliant post sir !
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I second that and from what followed some just can’t or wont get it.
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I guess the question for you GPL is have OTH made their philosophy / game plan clear to you guys in the industry? Other than rhetoric around “keeping the bastards honest”, how do they aim to satisfy you and your clients needs without just becoming a “me too” to RM and Zoopla. You’re right agents should get on OTH as an industry owned site and shouldn’t expect immediate results, as the process is a journey, but on the other hand unless OTH make clear what the destination and end game is, and what the benefit is to the subscriber, and furthermore their client, you can’t fault some agents for being more cynical about coming on this journey…
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GPL, I cant disagree with any of the above.
I agree with your thoughts, what is lacking though is a clear path or strategy to topple RM. How to recruit new members, specifically potential members with reservations. Just explain why to join is not in itself enough to get there. Many different agents have reasons why they will not join for me its i do not believe (at least in this time) that OTM can arrange a mass migration on my local level away from RM. All i will do leaving Z is actually strengthen RM.
For others its other concerns.
In my humble opinion what OTM need to do is identify the main one or two reasons why agents are get to sign up and then address it. It probably is not my reason btw!
On a thread yesterday the outsider was posting pretty negative stuff on OTM and not really showing support. I challenged him to come up with one thing OTM can do to get him to list with them. As of yet still not replied.
The reason i asked was if we can identify why agents are not committing, OTM can look at an offering to battle that.
You need more sophisticated selling other than the main cause to join or sending a rep out once every 6 months to see if a business owner has changed their mind.
Its like us going to list a property we need to overcome objections, we cant just keep saying to the vendor “We are the best, sign” some will others wont. And if you get too many no’s you look at your pitch / offering and change it to improve your instruction ratio. Thats where i feel OTM is now.
I dont actually think you ranted, was a nice thought out response. Maybe you can see it from our point of view?
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Ok so I work for a property portal in Australia so here’s my two cents worth (and if there’s any repetition on original comments apologies, there were too many to read). So google analytics measures amongst other things, people landing on your site. But sometimes they get there via SEM etc and realise they didn’t actually want to be there, so leave again before engaging with the site. So the key perimeters are really bounce rate and time on site mixed in with total visits. It’s very easy to buy bad traffic, but it’s worthless to the client, the paying agent subscriber. That’s why you have to take total visits and UV’s with a pinch of salt.
Next point. Point of difference. As a 3rd player on the market, what are you offering agents they don’t already have from RM and Zoopla. You need to differentiate. Focus more on “Quality of Enquiry” and not “Quantity of enquiry”. Agents get plenty of enquiry already from he market leaders, so they don’t need any more. But I’m sure they’ll tell you they need more “good enquiry”.
Was intending on going a bit deeper but got to run. Bye.
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I give up. I give up, I give up (3 x’s as once was not enough for a comment)
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smile please
Just a small point – the poster you refer to above was ‘the message’ and not ‘the outsider’.
That small point aside – I REALLY hope that you are now being taken seriously – both by other posters on here, and by anyone from AM Towers reading this – which I think we ALL need to know…
…Hello… is there anybody there…?
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My mistake!
I hope so, i am not trying to be difficult, just the opposite. I know i am not a lone voice, i am sure other agents have their reason for not signing on the dotted line, OTM does not have to radically change its offering, just look at appealing to more agents.
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smile please…. I can’t say I see toppling Rightmove as the objective in the sense of the emotion that goes with that. I honestly don’t see the gloating victory moment, simply replacing Rightmove as the goto property focused portal.
There is much talk about the capitive audience that Rightmove and others have built…. and OnTheMarket.com talk/ release their growth figures…however the odd thing is…. if Rightmove rebranded as OnTheMarket today the public would most likely not care and they would follow the stock…… for all the hocus pocus that is discussed here and elsewhere the reason the traffic goes to Rightmove is because the stock is there…. if Joe Buyer visits Rightmove and they have 1 house for sale, they may revisit a few times then give up and follow the stock.
The wonderful thing for Rightmove is peddling the insecurities, uncertainties, doom, disaster etc of the UK Estate Agency Industry changing portal to OnTheMarket.com ….and to do so with much skill and subtlety whilst maintaining the facade of not being concerned that it will ever happen…. and so it perpetuates…. the world is flat and if we dare go to the edge we will fall off?!
Despite what some may think on here, I am no portal dummy. I joined OnTheMarket and kept Rightmove because that is the sensible thing to do whilst OnTheMarket grows….. however the only debate in town is whether Rightmove can continue to disrupt/defeat the Tipping Point.
Oddly the UK ESTATE AGENCY Industry has the power to flick the switch in terms of portal property marketing yet in many respects it is frightened to use it….. because the portal world is flat and not round so we will all fall off?
I, Rightmove, OnTheMarket, the UK Estate Agency Industry knows that if we choose to switch provider then our portal marketing continues and we have a real opportunity to refocus our online marketing future.
I got fed up with Scottish Power’s poor service and attitude, I finally switched provider!…. I still flick a switch and my lights still go on? I get my bills and they are less? I get better service? I get an easier to understand/operate interface? …..it was my decision NOT Scottish Power’s?…. mine….. I changed provider.
Zoopla has seen the future and is changing, diversifying, however still trying to hold onto property….. Rightmove soldier on as the No 1 Profit Portal…. at what point does the UK ESTATE AGENCY Industry look at its future and decide that it is time to change provider… only to do so means riding 2 Horses for now?
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I think we are closer in thought than you may think.
I again agree with what you write.
I have absolutely no doubt that purchasers / vendors will go to where the property is advertised.
Maybe we are at cross purposes i dont think we need RM far from it. But as you have found yourself you can join OTM and not at this point walk away from RM (probably due to other agents close by who would remain on RM)
What OTM has shown me is there probably is little point listing on 2 portals, agents that have left Z and joined OTM have not seen their business effected. And agents that have stayed on Z have not seen an increase in business.
So probably if you we were to just advertise on RM business would be the same also.
So for me, i would rather hold back until locally agents are looking to move away from RM at that point i will ditch Z and RM and advertise solely on OTM.
This has to be the end goal for OTM?
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Ok…… here’s a revelation…. if you live in England, then tonight you are probably watching the footie and not on here!
On the Portal discussion…. smile please and other fine forum folk…. in the end, as we probably all accept in our hearts, it will be the UK Estate Agency Industry that will decide our property portal marketing future…. it is they alone who will decide whether to switch provider or not.
I genuinely wish I could have the opportunity to speak to every single real UK Estate Agent and talk to them about our collective industry…. which thrives on agents competing on service, cost, experience etc…. and which is and will continue to embrace technology/online marketing etc…. however it must drive home to the consumer all that is good about real estate agency and why it matters to the end user…. and Rightmove, Zoopla etc simply dilutes our industry and presents us almost as a product, rather than a service.
The UK Estate Agency Industry has lost its identity and Rightmove owns our portal marketing world….. Hoover ignored Dyson and now clients refer to their Dyson as a Dyson rather than Hoover….. that demonstrates a siesmic shift in how a product/brand can take over.
Maybe I am the Portal Dinosaur however it seems that there are thousands of UK Estate Agents Branches who joined OnTheMarket.com and they simply cannot all be portal dummies… whether the numbers are 5000, 6000, 7000 or 10,000 … it is surely sending out a signal? …will the UK Estate Agency Industry listen to itself or to The Duopoly?
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OKAYYY… I’m here at the request of ‘smile please’, who has asked me to climb off the fence I have straddled for a couple of years now and give my ‘plan’ to increase the numbers of advertising Agents and resulting stock increases that will result in the weakening of the grasp that RM and Z have on the ‘nads of we Agents. So blame him. Or her. Not me.
To some 5000, this is column inches you need not read. You have made the jump – for whatever reason – and the die is pretty much cast for you. Unless, that is, you are one of the reported few who are already considering chucking in the towel less than one seventh of the way into the journey you signed up for – in which case a not-so gentle reminder of why you did what you did when you did it mightn’t be a bad thing… and mores to the point what the future could hold if you abandon those principles at this stage.
A brief reminder. Up to a few months ago I was in the same place that ‘smile please’ is right now. An objector; an on-the-fencer – and a few other choice phrases that I know for a fact would have been uttered every time my stage-name popped up on a new post.
I was being a complete pain in the @$$ – and I know it. And I was doing it for what I considered to be the right reasons – all that matters is what is best for the industry and its’ paying customers, which, the last time I checked were the Sellers and Landlords of property.
I say that because I often wonder who the portals actually cater for. No – I will rephrase that – I know EXACTLY who the portals cater for – and they are in my opinion completely wrong in that fundamental respect of the entire issue.
Of course we want buyers and tenants to visit places where we choose to advertise our paying customers’ properties – it is the only valid reason to advertise – and the simple stark fact is that despite what certain individuals and corporations would have you believe THE ONLY REASON the public visit the portals is to see the stock that WE populate there. If there is no stock – there is no traffic going to be heading down that particular lane on the Information Superhighway.
Shut down the foodsource and the animal will starve – very quickly indeed.
We could all do that tomorrow – but we all know that it isn’t going to happen – because what this whole exercise has proved beyond a shadow of doubt is what I have said from my earliest days in the industry – and Mr Mealham and his merry band of collusion theorists have yet to learn – AGENTS WORK AGAINST EACH OTHER. They will never band together in sufficient numbers to effect such a change, because they will be vying for a perceived competitive advantage. I will bet now that pretty much every ‘activity area’ was home to at least one influential Agent who led the AM Rep a merry dance saying they were on the verge of signing – and never did. Were never going to, either, in my opinion – wouldn’t have even if you paid their subs for them, I reckon.
Because they saw an advantage not to. Remember – I called these people ‘Savvy Agent’ – and to be fair I firmly expected to be one of them – and look what happened!!
WHY did it happen? I guess I could say I was worn down. Outvoted, if the truth need be known – but once the die was cast in respect of the decision I became fully behind it with a mission to make it work – because I had previously made it my mission to unearth all the reasons it might not and try to steer AM towards plugging the holes… and there are several hundred posts and counter-posts both here and on the bog door down the other pub that attest to that I reckon.
I’d like to copy’n’paste something I found recently when I went on a rummage4 some stuff on this very subject. For the record, it was posted on 24 February 2012. At that particular point in time I was working within the industry – but I was NOT a practicing Estate Agent, had not been one for some four years – and would not become one again for almost another. It was in response to ‘the usual’ annual RM profit hike story and it went like this:
“IF RM cost more than its’ worth – if you got less out of it than you pay in – you and every other Agent would walk and it would shrivel and die overnight. It doesn’t.
Time to face fact, I am afraid.
Look – you want to make it better – make your own!
How about someone who knows what the Hell they are doing create a RM clone. All (…or most of…) the bells and whistles – but NON PROFIT MAKING. The site must be OWNED by the Agents who advertise on it. Each a shareholder. One price paid per branch/discipline. Any profit made after operating costs is then repaid to the shareholders proportionate to their payment.
OR – donated to charity. Get some positive publicity out of it!
Only thing – DON’T allow anyone to be a site spokesman!”
The following day, in response to ‘The ‘@’ Chap’ as I later named him I posted:
“My point – the solution is in all of your hands. If you don’t like the monster you have fed, then it is time for you all to stop feeding the monster and create another – but THIS TIME, do it properly!”
Do the content of those two posts make OTM my brainchild? I very much doubt it. I probably read something similar elsewhere and shamelessly claimed it as my idea – just like I’d apparently borrowed a line from Mark Twain about them not making any more land these days and pretty much every ‘original’ idea I’ve ever had to make me better at my job.
**STOP PRESS** The wheel is invented. I, no different to anyone else reading this, simply polish the old, trusty spokes that have got me and many more before me to where we are now pretty efficiently.
No ‘new’ ideas are required here – just need to look at the old ones again.
Agents Mutual needs to look VERY hard at what it is – and who it is there for. For my two penn’orth, I reckon the clue is in the name.
It needs more Members – by my reckoning there are well over 12000 out there that have yet to join – for a number of reasons of which at least one is applicable and relevant to each one of them.
If an Agent CHOOSES not to join – then that is their prerogative. They cannot and should not be made to join. I cannot imagine ANY situation by which EVERY UK Agent would be Members of AM and advertise on OTM – it simply does not compute – but those that CANNOT join are a different matter entirely – and even those Agents fall into two separate categories: those that do not fit the ‘Membership requirements’; and those that will not agree to the ‘Membership requirements’.
Prime example – that NAEA ‘endorses’ AM – yet many of its’ Members are excluded from being AM Members. Some NAEA Members have very publicly resigned citing this as the reason – maybe it is: maybe it isn’t – but one thing that IS obvious is the hypocrisy of this situation.
If we, as Agents, give our customers what they expect – their properties sold or let for the best prices in the optimum timeframe – the mechanics becomes secondplace.
Problem is they have been forcibly addicted to the likes of RM for almost a generation now so purging it from their systems isn’t an overnight process and cold turkey doesn’t seem like the acceptable alternative – so we need to use OTM like methadone and wean them onto something far less harmful than pure portal ********.
And remember – WE have been the pushers so expect a rough ride if we try to cut off the supply without having something just as good to offer in place.
OTM is part way there – but it needs a competitive advantage to keep people logging on… and all the advertising in the world ain’t gonna produce that. It needs to offer something that the others can’t offer. It has advantages already over the established leaders but those are advantages to US – NOT to the buyers and tenants who potentially enjoy tweaking the widgets on the others and gleaning too much information from what is listed.
Personally I don’t ever envisage more than 12,500 ‘branches’ to advertise – substantially less if nothing changes (but I look forward to being proven wrong…). BUT by my reckoning it only needs 35% of that additional figure to be taken from Zoopla and HEY PRESTO! – OTM becomes #2 UK portal at which point even the EHendersons of this world will wonder whether their words will taste better with salt or sugar on them.
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Well we can see you were not watching the football last night PeeBee! 😉
I hope readers take the time to read your comments in full as obviously a lot of time and thought went into it and has very balanced view.
I do wish there were more discussions like this, less emotive than the norm, One of GPL’s post wish he could speak to our industry. I would say there is no better place than here, Although we have the regular posters i bet there are hundreds if not thousands of owners that read and do not post that may not visit everyday but from time to time pop in.
It is a shame another day or two and this thread will be lost in the archive. It would be nice to have a forum on the site where threads can be pinned and revisited. I am sure they could sell advertising within the page such as the news stories to help pay for it.
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Watching football? During working hours?
Unimaginable! ;o)
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“It would be nice to have a forum on the site where threads can be pinned and revisited. I am sure they could sell advertising within the page such as the news stories to help pay for it.”
Agree, perhaps one where the threads are listed and re-order themselves based on a “latest comment” made saying “comment made 09.09.15 for instance. (We have a local forum which does this and its good to see old topics resurface and does not stop interest in new stories)
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I’d like to ask why a lot of you talk about building OTH to a position where you can jump off Rightmove and or Zoopla? Outside of the Agency utopia where your own website caters for all your enquiry needs (dream on), surely the best case scenario is being in a position to advertise on all 3 websites at an affordable cost. If OTH simply become a viable player (even as a no3) it makes the no1 more accountable from a price point, as they can no longer charge you whatever they want. The diligent property seeker will go on as many websites as they can when doing their research and seeking property, that’s just human nature, so really there’s a place for 3 players in the market.
I was also shocked to read that OTH insist that you drop one of the other 2 web portals. I assume that’s only a mandate to their shareholders isn’t it? And not the general subscriber. Either way this smacks of insecurity and lack of faith in building a web portal on it’s own merits alone.
I would also guard against this ideal scenario of OTH being your only web portal provider. Sure they may be leading with a tag line of “lets take on these price gouging market leaders'” but to try and envisage them as a replacement monopoly would seem dangerous to me. I’ve seen who some of the agency shareholders of this business are, and some of them are as you’d expect very profit driven by nature (what business isn’t). And we all know shareholder pressure is and always has been the driver for Price increase and revenue growth. Beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing……
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OTM, OTM, OTM, OTM, OTM, OTM, OTM………..OnTheMarket
PS this isn’t a sad attempt to promote the initials of OnTheMarket, it is merely to point out, I have no idea who OTH are! OnTheHope some might say! OnTheHeelsofZoopla others would argue.
Either way welcome to the debate.
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Whatever you do Ric, don’t lose this guy!
That’s what I love about this site, just when you think the whole OTM (or OTH ) thing has been flogged to death with every conceivable opinion already posted, low and behold, from the heavens, we get a tanked up wannabe Aussie full of Fosters with his!
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Whoops. Good pick up, On the House is a web portal in Australia. The abbreviation should have been OTM. Brain fuzz.
Thanks for the uh, teenage attempt at a put down “Disillusioned”, but I daresay a tanked (tank top would have painted an even better picture) up wannabe Aussie would more likely be rising from the depths of hell, than descending from heaven. It’s also quite difficult to pick up Fosters in Australia I might add. That’s actually a marketing tool used to promote the beer in it’s major market, wait for it, the UK, drunk more often than not, by, wait for it, Brits.
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Interesting to read what you say above, ‘Pomdownunder’ – as it draws a parallel line I feel I must walk with you.
What is the pull exerted by a BRIT property portal that has grabbed you by the Court and Shirleys, some 12,000 miles away, and is imploring you to engage with a rag-tag band of Estate Agents and portal-reps-in-disguise relating to the ins and outs of its’ very being?
It’s not like YOUR market and OURS is in any way entwined… and what happens here or there will have any bearing or relevance to the other so it just seems all a bit strange if you don’t mind me saying.
Of course you may well think completely differently or have a jolly good reason for the involvement (like you’re Lawrence Hall on an extended tour of the Outback, for instance…) in which case I among others would welcome the input so we can get a grip on your angle of trajectory and advise the appropriate course correction.
So far you’re on target for guaranteed burn-up…
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Funny you should ask PeeBee. So my interest comes from the fact that I work for an “industry owned” property portal out here in Aus. Add in to the mix the fact I spent 10 years as a Real Estate agent in London before moving out here, and there you have my intrigue and interest in OTM. (plus why I’m probably more qualified than most to engage on the topic)
Delving a bit deeper what’s engaged me beyond that? Well firstly it was the peculiar thing I heard that OTM insist their (is it shareholders?) drop one of Zoopla or RM? Not quite sure how that got past whatever organisation looks after anti-competition laws in the UK, but that was interesting.
Beyond that, a trip to the UK in June, where even in a shanty see side town in Devon, I saw the OTM bulls eye adorned over nearly every estate agents’s window. That fascinated me.
And finally, being English and now in that space, who knows one day I may end up working for one of 3 said companies. So be nice to me, as otherwise I’ll come and price gouge you 🙂
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I forgot to mention the market situation here is very similar. The market leader by a country mile is called realestate.com.au and they come in for the same criticism as RM. No 2 and no 3 are a long way behind.
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