One agent hoping for clarification today that furloughed staff will still be able to do at least some work received no fewer than ten requests for viewings yesterday.
One was from a 74-year-old woman – in the age group officially declared as most at risk in the coronavirus crisis. She asked for a viewing of a property in Exeter, explaining that she is on benefits.
The agent, Jonathan Newell, director of Southgate Estates, said he is advising people who request viewings that they are no longer possible. He said he was astonished still to be getting the requests, adding: “We will be in full lockdown unless people start taking some notice.”
Newell said he is working from home while all staff are on furlough.
He said: “I’m hoping for some clarification that furloughed workers can still do a minimal amount of work and still claim the 80%, but in the meantime I’m not risking jeopardising our claim. It’s a complete mess.”
So far, the Government has said that employees with furloughed status are those unable to work. Taxpayers will be funding 80% of employees’ pay, if first paid by the employer who then seeks repayment.
Comments (32)
It’s fraud.
In a hypothetical situation where an employee is happy to continue to do some work at home whilst furloughed, what would be the repercussions for the employee and the employer if this was somehow discovered?
Obviously this is constantly moving – So there is a train of thought:
Paying commission to staff on deals already agreed, now completing and settled over the coming months – prior to being furloughed – should be included in any salary.
But claiming for loss of commission on hypothetical future earnings is not included. Makes sense really.
Due to one experienced staff member leaving on 7th March I have just employed two new members of staff, one started on 9th March being unemployment previously, the second started on 16th March who left her previous employer 15th March therefore, being continuously employment, Both don’t have any experience in the industry but I had HAD a trading program arranged around them working In the office both can’t work from home.
both do not qualify for furlough due to not being on the payroll before 28th February.
My dilemma is I have a experienced manager who is leaving in 3 months time on maternity and need to cover her position for at least 6 months if not longer, do I make them both redundant or do I continue to pay them full pay to sit at home and read a few training books, HMRC rules don’t help me.
any ideas?
Hi. I would also love thoughts on similar situation. We employed 2 office staff 16th March and 23rd March. Both finished jobs on the Friday before and then came to work for us. As they were employed but not by us on the 26th Feb, they don’t get the 80%?? I don’t fancy paying them a salary to do nothing at home but I also do not want to loose them. They will be a great asset to the team. What can we do or what can they claim? If there’s nothing we can do as a company to help them. They left their jobs to come to us to help us.
Thanks
Has anyone ever been through a HMRC investigation? I have and if you think they will “allow” all the permutations of furlough-ing you’re in for a shock. In 3 to 6 months this will all unravel. They are already saying that it’s “up to” 80% and not a guaranteed 80%. Anyone with half a brain will use a mix of redundancy and furlough to keep going. Blind faith in furlough, as mentioned by someone else, is like trusting the promises made when we voted to remain or leave.
Directors – don’t even think about furloughing yourselves
It is not allowed except in one circumstance and that is if you are doing the company filing to HMRC – that is the only permissible activity – everything else is work and therefore if you are working – doing the payroll for example – you cannot furlough yourself
Perhaps Employers could review who they ask to be on furlough every 3 weeks.
Most of us would prefer to have something to do rather than be at home and idle.
The benefit of the scheme is that the government will pay 80% of the costs for those people who the business cannot fully employ until such time as work picks up again, so they don’t have to be made redundant.
However, I don’t think it is moral for employers to use this opportunity to force employees to agree to a cut in wages of 20%.
All commission, etc,will have been lost when under furlough, so already the employee is reduced to their basic wages.
Why aren’t Employers thankful that their cost for these people will only be 20% of basic wage for the period of this crisis.
Redundancy would cost the business far more.
Tell me what you think.
Am I being unfair on employers?
Welly – Really good outside the box thinking in respect of a rota system –
So thinking it through – the 3 week (rota ) could mean.
Those at home remain sane, active and feel valued
Those working don’t run the risk of burn out or become frustrated that others are benefitting from an 80% of salary for doing very little
Being practical – any employer worth his salt will have undertaken a quick business need and skill set assessment and retained staff as appropriate.
I sympathise with both the employers and employees here.
On your final point – The principal and thrust of your morality question is hopelessly romantic I fear.
Employers are in survival mode now. Those without property management to generate income are up against it in the medium term.
As we’ve already said – 80% of something is one hell of a gesture and with a good wind, some may return to the industry.
Either way – I’m expecting huge numbers of net based new indi. agencies from furloughed/redundant staff
I disagree that Furloughing can be dipped in and out of. It requires a brief consultation to explain why you are considering it and you must reach agreement with the staff member affected. As the rules stand, the staff can be furloughed until 31 May, although you can bring them back if the situation changes and you need to increase capacity or you n need their specialist skills. They are in effect on garden leave meanwhile.
Too right.
According to IBB solicitors they give the advice:
Q : How long must employees be furloughed?
A: Employees must be furloughed for a minimum continuous period of 3 weeks.
Q: Can employers rotate furloughing employees?
A: Yes, provided that the employees are furloughed for a minimum of 3 weeks at a time
Their interpretation, of course, but worth considering.
This scheme is unfair on some staff knowing their colleagues are at home being paid a full wage to do nothing, whilst I am sat working everyday. Our company will be topping up the 20%. Any ideas on whether there can be a fairer way around this?
Will HMRC make these payments to us by end of April??? 40,000 lay offs at the tax office announced today
I handed my notice to my current employer (pre lockdown)my last day of official employment is 1st April. I was due to start a new job, they have withdrawn their job offer in light of the current situation.
Would my current employer be able to claim furlough for me?
Just created an account to be able to answer this. There’s a You Tube video of Martin Lewis that talks about this. In a nut shell his answer is yes. If your employee agrees to tremolos you and furlough you it’s allowed. They don’t have to. But it would be nice to think everyone would do the right thing as long as you left on good terms.
Good Luck
Re-employ* sorry
Thank you!!!
From gov.uk website :
“The scheme also covers employees who were made redundant since 28 February 2020, if they are rehired by their employer.”
40 – 80% is being mooted by the darlings at HMRC. How will this play out I wonder
Michael Day hit the nail on the head. If staff are furloughed then they carry out no duties. At the end of May then either the furlough scheme may be extended, or if there is still no work for the staff member you are looking at redundancy of the role. Furloughing is a brilliant idea, if you think that you have very valuable staff with unique skills or knowledge which you don’t need right now but might again soon. It’s not clear (yet) whether start a redundancy consultation process which results in furloughing as one of the possible outcomes, or you move straight too furloughing to avoid redundancy. A technical point, which by the time its settled at an Industrial Tribunal, we should all be through it and out the other side.
Hey, I’m on it today. The answer is that you move straight to a discussion about potentially furloughing a role, and if that conversation does not play out too well you advise the staff member that reluctantly you may need to consider redundancy of the role.
Interesting thoughts there. So my understanding of the situation so far is ; Basic Salary at 80% is to be paid. No Bonus, Commission included. This will be a big hit for many.
Moving it on :
For those on commission and assuming redundancy comes into play – post 3 month furlough – it may gets messier still.
Redundancy: The amount of commission due is worked out as an average over the 12 weeks before you got notice of redundancy. Unless your contract of employment includes overtime, it does not form part of the calculation for statutory redundancy payments.
Err no commission
It seems to me that the employer is getting a handout from the govt of 80% to encourage them not to make staff redundant, but they are not obliged to fund the shortfall in wages.
This is apparently to encourage them not to make staff redundant, which is good, but Employers appear (from the discussions I have had) to be using the threat of redundancy to ask employees to take a cut in wages, and I have not heard of many that are making up the pay to 100%.
Isn’t the govt 80% contribution to ASSIST the employer in retaining labour by cutting their labour cost by 80% and leaving them just to fund the 20%. Surely the alternative – i.e. if an employee refuses to accept the cut – would cost the employer a lot more in redundancy pay-outs and the current crisis may ease in a few months so that staff would be needed back to work (I’m hoping with a significant bounce back from people who have put their moves on hold).
Why are employers so quick to cut wages to 80% and thereby paying their staff NOTHING THEMSELVES and leaving ALL payments to the govt. They will still expect to have these people back at work in a little while having not contributed to their pay at all ?
What’s the mood out there? Accepting that commission and bonuses will have been lost, is there a moral argument that at least the basic wages be made up to 100% or even 90% ? It seems particularly hard on those on low incomes ie under £20k
So to be clear – Paying commission to staff on deals already agreed, now completing and settled over the coming months – prior to being furloughed – should be included in any salary.
But claiming for loss of commission on hypothetical future earnings is not included.
It doesn’t need clarifying at all. Furloughing is intended as an alternative to making people permanently redundant.
If people are working then it is up to the employer to pay them.
If employers could have their work force still working whilst being furloughed and paid by HM Government then every employee in the country would be furloughed.
The payments being made by the Government are an incredible attempt to keep businesses and individuals afloat during unprecedented and very difficult times – they come with rules attached which should be honoured.
Correct Sir. A remarkable move by the Gov. to effectively underwrite the salaries of millions.
I’m not sure it would have happened in years gone by.
If you’d borrowed too much or didn’t have a rainy day fund , then quite frankly you would have been on your 4rse. i.e. it’s not the states fault.
I for one applaud this move.
There wasn’t really any other solution if they wanted to avoid riots and looting.
Couldn’t agree more IF we believe what all politicians say. I’m not so sure and my toes are crossed with complete belief in Boris.
If Furloughed they cannot work… is the official rule of Furlough.
and I think that must be the reason you ask the them to accept Furlough, as you have no work for them. The volume is too low.
Then if you only pay at the 80% DON’T MAKE THEM WORK…. and if you are going to pay them at 100% (i.e top up the 20%) then perhaps a hush hush agreement to “DO A BIT if required” to help.
But, with no activity and only a small percentage of sales to handle (close to exchange) surely the Biz Owners or designated Branch Managers can now manage 100% of the stock and activity.
I don’t have major stock levels, and probably 6 to 10 calls each lock down day so far?
What happens when employees are furloughed but the employer still asks the employee to work two days per week?
Thank you
I’ve been put on this scheme..And received a letter saying if I don’t do a reasonable amount of work when asked then the payment will be taken away..So essentially I’ve already done a few days work and will be very busy next week.probably a full weeks work on furlough..So working from home and furloughed..Is this ok??My heads fried..And actually receiving questions from auditors who must know I’m furloughed..!!
Gov will say ‘of course they can’t work’