It is a hotly debated subject: how many offices actually currently belong to OnTheMarket and what is the rate of recruitment?
Well, EYE reader ‘smile please’ has been crunching the numbers on the Arena part of our site, since OTM boss Ian Springett said in November that the site had the support of over 6,000 offices, but did not offer actual membership figures.
On December 3, ‘smile please’ calculated a total of 5,722 offices belong to OTM – consisting of 5,034 in England, 357 in Wales and 313 in Scotland.
Yesterday, he revisited the exercise and made the total 5,854 – an increase of 132 branches in a month.
‘smile please’ has also broken down the England membership county by county and calculated where numbers have gone up or down.
We hereby ask ‘smile please’ nicely to repeat this interesting exercise in a month’s time.
Take a look here
If they are offering free of charge and very low cost advertising (I have seen a multi office firm offered £50 per branch for 2 years!), why have they only added 132??
There must be thousands, if not hundreds of offices who only advertised on one of Zoopla or Rightmove. If agents were that keen surely they’d be signing up in droves?
I suppose that they might be and the 132 growth is masking a fall in numbers from agents who were paying a ‘proper’ fee.
It will be most interesting when we get to the end of this month and into February and then look at the office count.
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Wowsers. ..There are some people that cannot say a positive word about OTM. Anybody who knows how a portal works will understand the main focus in the first 3 years is to increase inventory. OTM are doing exactly what all portals have done. The fact is OTM is growing. The numbers smile please quotes are live branches. My guess is they are close to 7000 if you count the letter if intents. It baffles me why any agent wants OTM to fail.
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Maybe because they don’t want to be beholden to a bunch of Central London agents operating at the top end of the market HJ12?
Maybe because they view their competition as their competition and not a cosy group to be setting up shop with.
Maybe because they don’t want to have to shell out on three portals (which is the inevitable consequence of this).
Maybe because Rightmove’s already strong position has been bolstered by recent events and they don’t like that. Goodness only knows where that will lead.
Maybe because the online agents, who were a specific target of the Agents Mutual strategy are materially stronger – partly as a result of this dumb-ars* strategy.
Maybe because OTM has already shown itself to be duplicitous by offering recent signers (who weren’t loyal at the start) lower rates with an equal shareholding to those agents who invested and showed loyalty. What next?
Maybe because a 1/10,000 share in something gives you no actual control so what’s the point in investing if your objective is getting control?
Maybe because you realise that the thing is essentially a ponzi scheme and your only chance of getting a return on your investment is if the thing keeps growing (i.e. revenue growth, not adding free of charge branches).
Maybe because removing your customer’s property from a website with 50 million visits and replacing it with a website with 5 million visits isn’t acting in the best interest of said customer.
I know when you have emotionally and financially invested in something it is difficult to see the wood from the trees HJ12, but there are very rational reasons for being an agent and being apposed to this project.
I can also see the counter arguments for getting involved but I am afraid they are significantly outweighed by the reasons not to get involved – in its current form anyway.
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I don’t need to get into an argument Harryn. ..somebody clearly stole the jam out of your donut this morning! Cheer up its a New Year x
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No argument HJ12 – you made a statement and I responded. It isn’t an argument until you disagree with something I have said above 😉
This is the problem with this whole project. Very few people are stating the – very good – reasons for wanting OTM to go away, but plenty of people line up (on this website anyway) to argue why its a good thing.
Maybe when the dust settles people will look back and wish they either i) thought a bit more carefully about the consequences or ii) actually done something about it when they realised it was going curly.
Back to my (jamless) doughnut!
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Do a thought experiment – what if AM succeeds and kills every other portal –
—> Agents really will be well and truly shafted and every agent will have to fall inline to what this massive mutual run by elitist agents TELL you. You will be truly BEHOLDEN to Springett and his masters.
Despite the name, the really is NOT in the interests of agents. It is a Torjan Horse to control the industry and you.
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So I was dreaming Lamby45 when I saw Zoopla make a massive deal out of the hundred odd offices they regained last year then am I?!!!
Apparently now OTM are offering their portal free of charge (no evidence published I see) but of course, it isn’t like if I were to phone Zoopla today and say I will re-list my properties with you but I want 6 months free, they wouldn’t bite my arm off!
What I find particularly interesting is that Smile Please is NOT an OTM subscriber merely someone who wants to bring the facts of the debate to the discussion as opposed to the marauding gang that seem to jump on an OTM related story the moment it appears and rubbish it.
I applaud him for that.
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I’m buying a place at the moment and have spoken to a few agents about OTM. Feedback is they support the idea of OTM, it isn’t working but Rightmove means business isn’t really affected too much. Exception was one agent who had lost 2 instructions because they were not using Zoopla and the vendors ‘liked Zoopla’.
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What I don’t get about the anti OTM brigade is why are they bothered?
If OTM is as rubbish as they suggest and all their agents are just flushing their money down the pan in a Ponzi scheme (HarryN) why aren’t they just letting their competitors get on with it?
Surely you’d love them making complete ars*’s of themselves, after all it’s money on a doomed project that they could be spending on much more effective platforms competing with you?
It seems to me Zoopla were openly rubbishing OTM at the start, that has given way to an almost evangelical campaign to teach others the error of their ways by a band of non OTM agents. Or are they? Maybe Zoopla decided that openly rubbishing a competitor was never going to get them many votes and a different approach was needed . . . . . .
Who else would give a monkeys?
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Bang on the money there El Burro. Maybe the anti-OTM brigade think they can bring about its demise quicker with their regular, now rather tedious rants on here.
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The only objection to a new web portal is the invested interest of those that moan, trying to make it not work. Most are RM & Z employees or web only portals who are not allowed. The only argument anyone has come up with is the one other portal rule, as the rest are applicable to any web site be it RM or Z or Primelocation or OTM etc etc. Most agents can’t afford more than 2 portal fees, so that shoots down the one portal rule objectors. Agents customers don’t want too spend hours searching around hundreds of portals and even RM stats show that a high percentage of visiting traffic doesn’t buy, maybe they are just agents who use it as a valuation tool (name me an agent who doesn’t) and carpet treaders otherwise why are the hits claimed to be in the million’s month after month but a fraction are sold and so many vendors find the need to switch agents which make no difference to the web portal advertising unless it is a different one.
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We’ve seen how badly some memebers have been treated (see stories about lack of data, biased fees, no response to complaints etc).
Now imagine if they did kill rightmove. Then agents would be treated with even more contempt by toffs who run the companies who are our competitors.
Come on – don’t be so shortsighted
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I don’t think any of the big three OTM, RM or Z have made any new in roads to on line marketing since RM launch the last century.
There doesn’t appear to be any ” new tech” disruptive or otherwise.
If these boys don’t pull their socks up and keep us all engaged then it will come down to who can sell their membership at the lowest.
For now RM have the market share, if either Z or OTM actually get close I suspect it will be either price or tech that will close the gap.
It’s gonna happen peoples !
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If OTM are serious about delivering a message to agents (members, or prospective ones) isn’t it about time they were treated with some respect, as any self-respecting business would) and publish some official figures?
Absolutely no disrespect to Smile, but relying on an anonymous poster on an open forum to do this is hilariously amateurish and frankly embarrassing. It’s been a year in operation and not one official statement?!
I’m amazed more people aren’t seriously questioning this.
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Hang on a second Digital Expert, how are OTM relying on an anonymous poster?? Someone posted their internet research and that happened to be picked up by EYE for a story. Please explain how in anyway that is OTM sanctioned or are you so blinded by your prejudice you can’t see that?!
Further, why on earth should OTM publish anything simply to appease a few equally anonymous disdaining posters on the same site?? Talk about egotistical!
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I’m not prejudiced in any way!
It’s quite clear PIE is a mouthpiece for OTM, they scrape every possible talking point, knowing it will create big debate, more visits, more posts.
My point is, why haven’t OTM released anything?! It’s surely in the interests of everybody concerned to see how they are performing – you agree, surely?
It’s their duty – as a mutual – to present performance. After all, those who have invested will want to know the status of their investment. Or is it a charity?
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DE you are the epitome of the word prejudiced! but honestly If it upsets you so much why read it?! But in any case I think you will find that EYE published plenty of propaganda released by Zoopla last year did they not??
I know what your point was but again why should OTM release anything simply because YOU think they should? But lets be honest as I can assume you are not paying them, the only real reason you want them to publish anything is because you want to rubbish it. Would that be fair to say?
I think that OTM do have some responsibility to keep those of us that pay them updated with any new initiatives or progress of the site, but i can see what I am getting from my stats, so no I do not need them to “present” their performance.
Like most “estate agents” that read this publication, in the end the only thing I care about is whether OTM is a benefit to my business or at least whether it is worth the investment, with the future of my business in mind. I believe it is. In fact, I believe if being part of it doesn’t damage business (and with the current levels of leads being generated through it and elsewhere I can’t see how it could be) then I actually can’t understand why EVERY estate agent isn’t supporting it.
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It’s not because DE thinks they should publish their data but because their members have no clue what the figures are. So it’s not for me, it’s actually for you – and you are clearly in the dark. I’m surprised you’re gulluble enough not to be angry at this.
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And you Harry would understand those figures would you?. I know what MY figures are, I go on to my control panel and I can see them. What else do YOU think I need to know?
As for the insult, perhaps you’d like to tell me your credentials before suggesting i’m gullible?
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Yes, Harry – those figures would be too complicated for you to understand. Best keep those confusing numbers to themselves. Don’t you worry your pretty little head about such things.
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Oh wow well lets hear it DE, do please share with us all how the hits on the Zoopla website translate into instructions for my office……anytime you like, fire away…….
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You keep mentioning Zoopla, RA.
Harry & I are talking about OTM member numbers.
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You know what they are DE, they are 132 more than they were in December.
What else would you like to make this article into?
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Ok no assumptions then. Just a question: Do you feel naieve with respect to what they are (and are not) telling you?
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I’m sure every estate agent would like to support it but without “official figures” (so we fence sitters can make a firm and confidant commitment) its only comments on here that we are able to gauge anything.
There are a lot of good and bad points for and against but surely real, if you run your own business you must accept that you cant just blindly pay and go with otm, you need real figures and not bs and certainly not the ceo leaving you to fight his case and you dont want to hear that other agents are getting 12 months free 12 to 24 months at £50 pcm.
So DE is correct, its nearly a year, otm hasnt and never was going to be No.2 inside a year but they could if they opened up to potential and existing clients/members about real time offices and not letters of intent bs and by the way because of the discounted to free offers out there I have withdrawn mine and will sadly wait longer now as I feel these silly offers will create a divide between all classes of member and I do mean all classes.
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Thank you.
My comment was neither pro or anti OTM, just a statement of surprise that no one is questioning the performance of their investment – or the willingness of Springett & co to publish any kind of official figures and allowing third parties to do it. Could you imagine if Zoopla did that?! Laughing stock.
Maybe some of the agents on here have so much money, they don’t feel the need to monitor where their money has gone. Doubtful.
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That fear factor again! This is where OTM need to get their act together with their own ground troops. It seems from other post during the year agents are not seeing them or not doing a very good job with the fence sitters.
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I’m somewhat hesitant at engaging with this Stevie as its all been said before but as you seem to actually be an EA I will answer your points.
I don’t really consider I am blindly paying for anything. For me the choice was this: In the long run, an investment in an agency controlled portal was better than allowing the market to be controlled by two commercial ones. In my area I had more leads than I could effectively deal with from the portals, the quality of which was certainly spurious, so I felt by backing OTM I wasn’t causing my business any loss and It hasn’t, genuinely hasn’t. I can say hand on heart we have had not one client even mention not being on Zoopla (the one we gave up).
My point to DE’s post was this: He would love to see OTM publish figures so that he can make a direct comparison with Zoopla and say there you go its a failure. But for a start he wouldn’t be considering like for like. Zoopla have had a few years to perfect their stats but in real terms what actually do agents care whether Z has 200 or 20M visits to their site. The only thing that really matters is how many people get to know about the houses in X town and on that basis national stats mean nothing.
I don’t believe DE is correct about anything, he is hanging his entire argument on some rhetoric that the CEO of OTM made and you know what it really doesn’t matter does it whether OTM is 1, 2 or 3 after a year, this market is all about attracting sellers and if you are worried about missing them, well I don’t think you can honestly tell me they wouldn’t be looking at RM. Then it becomes about what appeals to them, two sites the same or two that are different. For me OTM fills that role.
As for your letter of intent, thats up to you but unless you actually see emails to agents offering them a free period then I would say don’t fall for unsubstantiated rumour spread by a few on here. If you have seen them well my advice would be take them up on it. You won’t find me complaining, Ive made my decision and thats one on the future not the now.
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Where, at any point, did I say ‘I’ want OTM to publish, so ‘I can measure against Zoopla?’
I didn’t say anything of the kind.
I haven’t invested, but those that have seem quite happy to go along with Smile doing Ian’s work for him.
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The only thing you didn’t directly say DE was Zoopla but be honest that would be the comparison you’d be making.
No is happy to go along with anything. What is the matter with you? Smile was interested to know what changed with the agents on OTM or not and published his findings in a forum post. Eye turned that in to an article. Why on earth would that be defined as anyone doing Ian Springetts work for him? Smile just made an observation and the publication printed it!!
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You appear to have gone off on a series of bewildering rants without looking at what has actually been said, RA.
I’m not having a dig at Smile, kudos to him/her.
I’ll spell it out in simple words – Why have OTM not released any figures, whether positive or not, when trying to up recruitment and stifle the flow of agents leaving them after a full year of operation.
Not one statement from IS & Co, after having 1000’s of agents put significant investment into a startup company.
It has been left to educated guess work on forums from the like of Smile.
If I had put £3k per branch forward, and signed a 5yr contract on an investment, I’d be wondering how it was doing.
It’s pretty easy to grasp.
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And I will spell it out in even simpler terms…why should OTM publish anything to appease you?
I pay them and I am not asking them to publish anything. Simple enough for you?
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To appease its members. It doesn’t effect me in any conceivable way. But I didn’t invest £1000’s of my hard earned..
Why you’re not asking to see the figures is both myopic and terrifying, Why on earth wouldn’t you want to see them?
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To appease it’s members IN YOUR OPINION you mean! Unless of course DE you are arrogantly saying you speak for us all?
And I think its you on the bewildering rant you accused me of earlier. Shall I spell this out so even a Digital Expert like yourself understands it?
A contributor on this website named Smile Please posted some figures for the number of agents that had joined OTM since he last did it in December. The site EYE made that into an article and published it. Thats it.
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Digital Expert, you say ‘If I had put £3K per branch forward, and signed a 5yr contract on an investment, I’d be wondering how it was doing’. And you would be absolutely entitled to request such information.
But apparently you haven’t put a single penny into OTM so you have absolutely no right to demand or request anything from them. Have you?
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You can’t influence the weather, Agency, but I bet you talk about it.
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Thanks for that Carol Kirkwood.
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do you tell prospective clients that they their properties will not be on Zoopla, will be on OTM and the relevant traffic figures?
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Why would we tell clients their property is not on Zoopla. We tell them what sites their property WILL be on obviously??!!!
Relevant traffic figures? What exactly would they be then observer? The ones for their property and compared to what?, the ones for the area, the ones for the town, the ones for the county, the ones for the country or the ones globally? Or perhaps you mean the traffic for those trying to get home during rush hour??
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The ones that matter when trying to sell something.
How many people will see my property, and are you marketing it where it will get the most views?
Whatever your thoughts are on OTM, it has no place in a discussion where an OTM agent claims to be doing the best possible marketing for the vendor.
Maybe one day (big maybe), but it has less than 2% brand awareness and less than 5% of RM & less than 10% of Zoopla’s traffic.
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You see thats the problem with being a Digital Expert and not a selling homes expert. Its relevant views that are of interest not just views!!
And again who are you to tell any of us whether OTM has a relevance or not. It doesn’t have any relevance IN YOUR OPINION. You keep forgetting to add that DE!
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You’re making a lot of assumptions about me with no knowledge whatsoever. Like vendors & sellers in 2016 I’d suggest some research may be of use.
It has no relevance in the public opinion and therefore it holds no value.
If, for example Zoopla delivers no relevant views with around 50m visits a month, then, pray, tell me what on earth can OTM offer with around 9% of the traffic?
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DE – Do tell. Why would I necessarily want or need to place my client’s property on any particular website?
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Well yes its fair to say I have made a few assumptions about you but the only relevant ones are the ones where you voice an opinion that is dressed as a fact.
What is the point in quoting me 50m views from Zoopla. That 3 bed semi I am selling in Leafy Lane doesn’t get 50m relevant views does it?!
Interesting you should now mention Zoopla, were you not just two hours ago saying this wasn’t an OTM v Zoopla discussion yet somehow now it is!?!
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SO, ‘Digital Expert’ – it all comes down in your opinion to the simple matter of “How many people will see my property, and are you marketing it where it will get the most views?”
Just when it appeared impossible that the vacuous expanse in the understanding of our industry – of many things, apparently – you possess could widen no further…
…you create your very own Big Bang and enlarge that void by exponential proportions right in front of our eyes.
Thanks. Saves a lot of time and effort on the behalf of others.
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DE isn’t a high street agent, probably says it all. And we all know what that means as far as OTM are concerned.
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