Eight in ten sellers ‘would list directly on Rightmove and Zoopla’

| Rosalind Renshaw

A City analyst has said that the power of both Rightmove and Zoopla is increasing, with 70% of consumers wanting their properties on both sites.

An even higher percentage would list their homes privately on both sites if they could.

Jefferies says consumers have a similar awareness of both sites, and that half (47%) believe agents pay over £250 to list each property.

Jefferies also says that given the chance, 79% of consumers would use the portals to list their homes directly.

The research interviewed 1,500 home owners, of whom 36% are planning to move within two years, and released the results on Friday.

The research found that 75% thought estate agency fees too high, 22% thought they were about right and just 1% thought they were good value.

Were the portals to accept private listings, 54% would happily pay over £250 to list on Rightmove, 52% would pay over £250 to list on Zoopla and 45% would pay that for a Primelocation listing.

Jefferies observes: “Zoopla Property Group owns both Zoopla and Primelocation and would therefore be the major beneficiary should the direct listing strategy change.

“Is the traditional estate agent dead? We don’t think so.

“Despite what is said around the dinner party tables … the OFT found that 88% of those who actually used a traditional agent were satisfied with the service received.

“Talk is cheap, but apparently agents sell houses.

“We also suspect that portals would rather have ongoing relationships with a few thousand agents than one-off relationships with hundreds and thousands of individual home buyers and sellers.”

In a so-called ‘deep dive’ – an in-depth analysis – of property portals, Jefferies says that Zoopla and Rightmove have equal brand awareness: 61% knew Rightmove and 60% Zoopla (including Primelocation).

Unsurprisingly, none had heard of Agents’ Mutual – although the research draws the conclusion that the fact it had no mentions was interesting “given the supposed threat of Agents’ Mutual”.

The research shows that 74% of consumers rate the portals as the most useful source of property information. Only 14% said their local estate agents’ websites were their most useful source.

Physical branches were given an 8% rating, newspapers 3% and For Sale boards just 2%.

Rightmove was seen as more useful (41% of the time) than Zoopla (33% of the time).

Of the public’s apparent wish to list directly on both Rightmove and Zoopla, the study observes: “Though at first glance it seems obvious that Rightmove and Zoopla will open up their doors to direct listing, we view this as unlikely.

“Thinking estate agents are too expensive, and abandoning them altogether, are two very different animals.”

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82 Comments

  1. petersonline
    August 11, 2014 at 06:47

    Consumers should remember that it is the estate agents who provide Rightmove and Zoopla with all of the data which allows them to exist. Without estate agents there would be no Zoopla or Rightmove. If estate agents cease to provide data to these property portals and decide to support Agents Mutual "On the market" and provide their data and advertising to this new property portal, it will be Agents Mutual "On the market" which will be the main site for consumers to receive their property data!!!

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    1. PortalPerson
      August 11, 2014 at 07:00

      petersonline:

      It's a known fact that consumers will find the property whether it's listed on a portal or not. This could be by one of many different means

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      1. danny
        August 11, 2014 at 11:18

        Us agents should remember that its the public who provide us with all the houses we sell and rent.If vendors cease to provide houses to an agent and decide to support another agent who offer them the services they want…

        Although as usual this is pinch of salt thing its a pretty robust survey of 2000 people…immediately ignored by members of a service industry, i despair sometimes

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      2. PeeBee
        August 11, 2014 at 12:03

        "It's a known fact that consumers will find the property whether it's listed on a portal or not. This could be by one of many different means"

        So, PortalPerson – you state the completely obvious (to 'Traditional' Estate Agents, at least…) that portal advertising is ONE way to market a property for its owner. Please advise which of the OTHER "many different means" an online/budget model effectively utilise to market their clients' homes?

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        1. PortalPerson
          August 11, 2014 at 12:59

          PeeBee?????

          Talk sense will you?

          I am not spelling out the many ways people can and do find property in todays digital age.

          If you want a lesson on economics and marketing you can pay me my rate of £150 an hour

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          1. PeeBee
            August 11, 2014 at 13:18

            Tell you what – I'll be generous and pay you minimum wage. Shouldn't cost me more than 75p for the time and effort you'll be putting in…

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          2. PortalPerson
            August 11, 2014 at 13:58

            You do crack me up PeeBee.

            Where do you come up with this stuff? I t's like you read straight from a book of fairy tales. Does an employer actually pay you for your intellect? or is it one of those back to work special case schemes?

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          3. PeeBee
            August 11, 2014 at 16:16

            Getting work must be slow in portalworld for you to spend so much time here… but trolling a site primarily for Estate Agents, having or nothing little good to say about them and THEN happily posting what you state to be your real name – I only hope this isn't your ONLY way of touting for prospective clients…

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          4. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 09:08

            PeeBee.

            Fortunately for me business is good so I can afford to "troll" you on here. I guess you sign on the dole so you have plenty of time also?…

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  2. PortalPerson
    August 11, 2014 at 06:55

    More proof that the majority sellers would much prefer to sell their house themselves than use an agent.

    This just backs up again and again the cheaper model. Most sellers don't care about your local knowledge and the possibility that you may get them a better deal, they just want to sell their property in the cheapest possible manner.

    Kudos to whomever did this survey, maybe agents will wake up and smell the beans now 🙂

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    1. Ric
      August 11, 2014 at 07:14

      Now you are funny…… so most buyers would answer…. they would rather save a grand in fees than get ten grand extra in sale price……….. maybe I should smell the beans, but I think in the meantime you should stop sniffing whatever it is you do!

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      1. PortalPerson
        August 11, 2014 at 09:49

        Ric:

        The Proof is in the fact that 8 out of 10 would so yes I guess you're not as in touch with the industry as you think you are 🙂

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        1. PeeBee
          August 11, 2014 at 15:44

          Okay – so you are no longer an ANONYMOUS troll.

          Still a troll, though…

          Report
          1. PeeBee
            August 11, 2014 at 15:47

            OOPS – wrong comment thread. Slip of the mouse. PortalPerson – this is for you… hope you find it.

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        2. Ric
          August 11, 2014 at 16:21

          You are correct. I am indeed too expensive and have no idea of the industry (23 years of selling in my 39 years of life, I have genuinely lost the plot and learnt little)……………… Although forget the industry as such for a moment and lets just look at the "business model of RM" I still no matter how hard I try find it difficult to understand how RM or Z will turn the 80% of their new found clients into the kind of profit they make now….AND this is the key!……………….What will shareholders expect?………………………. so lets take JUST the AM agents off RM, who are paying lets guess (as you do on my fees it seems) on average £400 per branch?…… so 3,000 branches at £400 per month = £1,200,000 lost revenue month one! when they open up private listings (not to mention the rest who drop them like a hot cake)…….so RM need 4,000 private listings (based on lets say £300 per listing) in month one to replace the revenue! HERE IS THE THING……look at month two!! RM currently get the £1,200,000 EVERY month from the AM collective, however now they need another 4,000 NEW punters to list their home! to again replace the lost revenue or charge the first set of 4,000 another £300 to stay on (hold on, some of these Private sellers sound like the AM collective already, when the RM rep calls to say can we have more money!!)….. what business plan will RM have which will replace the lost revenue after month one!….. FSBO, list direct call it what you want….. RM rely on agents paying month in month out and a lot of money…… I get owners may like the idea of direct listings, but RM cannot make it work this way with the kind of revenue they make now! My opinion, perhaps wrong or maybe right…………….However as you take this story with such belief, read the second to last paragraph….I guess they have looked at the reality and not the dream! The initial impact of RM or Z private listing will be good, but then the love affair with the dream will end when the homeowners realise only listing your home at less than a good price may help sell it within 30 days…… RM will certainly not offer 6 month listing plans at anything less than expensive for a private seller…. how do you think RM will price this to make it work?

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          1. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 09:11

            Did I touch a nerve there Ric?

            You seem to think you know your audience but you're amazed when 80% of them would prefer to not use an agent and rather sell their property themselves… You can't have it both ways…

            You can moan all you like about them not knowing the complexities of selling a home and how difficult you make it out to be but at some point you (in general) as agents are not getting your product or services across to your target market so whichever way you look at it you're not as in touch with your audience as you like to make out.

            You can dress up 23 of BLAH years however you like, it's wasted on me because I don't care what you've done in the past, as a seller I ONLY care about what you can do for me NOW and how much it will cost me and if that cost is justified.

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          2. PeeBee
            August 12, 2014 at 11:01

            "You seem to think you know your audience but you're amazed when 80% of them would prefer to not use an agent and rather sell their property themselves…" Thereby you hand us the proof that you understand JACK about our business. 8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas – according to…? NOT the bleedin' moggies – that's for sure. They will eat ANYTHING shoved in front of them, mice and birds included – but no PR company sends out THAT particular message to the audience of sweet old ladies do they? Do you honestly believe that the research house that produced this 'report' did it for the love of quoting statistics?

            IF "80%of them… would rather sell their property themselves" – WHY AREN'T THEY DOING IT ALREADY? Of course you're going to blame the fact that they can't list on the portals – so then why aren't they simply using budget online models, which will allow them to do exactly that for coppers in the pound of what you refer to as an "outrageous" fee? (not bad for a guy who claims he's stuffing his clients for a ton-and-a-half an hour!) That way, THEY would be happy, YOU would be as chuffed as can be and I WOULD be claiming dole as you seem to think I already am. Job's a good 'un, as they say. But it ain't the case – SEVEN or so of the 8 out of 10 cats already on the market MUST prefer Whiskas… otherwise they'd be scratting around trying to snaffle a morsel of meat from the budget providers, wouldn't they?

            It would be hugely interesting if Jeffries were to do a follow-up in 2 years of these 1500 interviewees – see what ACTUALLY happens.

            There – so speaks the idiot. I look forward to your response – but I doubt there'll be much agreement. Ironic really – a lot of what you say in other posts (portal-wise) I agree with. I just don't like your manner – I guess that makes us equal.

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          3. PortalPerson
            August 13, 2014 at 07:48

            PeeBee.

            That total toilet bowl of a reply makes absolutely NO sense. Are we talking about Cats and Whiskas? NO… You're arguing semantics to try and prove your point which you keep failing to do.

            You know nothing about business, VERY little about the property industry and even less about people in general. Go back to trolling on Facebook or whatever it is you do when you're not looking for local cashier jobs in the paper and leave the conversation to the adults you childish little boy.

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          4. PeeBee
            August 13, 2014 at 21:00

            So, PortalPerson – I have clearly yanked your chain in past – or someone else's who thinks you are a better match than they are. Your tack is to label me stupid, childish, to question my understanding of both general business (trust me – I manage my business quite well, thank you…) and the industry (I'll never be an "expert" as some claim but again I have so far stayed in the rose beds and away from the minefields…) – and to thus discredit me for some reason. In the meantime, your own posts are glaringly inaccurate, full of holes that you could drive an oil-tanker through sideways – and take gross stupidity to an entirely new level.

            I should be flattered that you try so hard. Unfortunately, as you are so woefully cr@p at what you are attempting to do, I'm simply embarrassed for you.

            I don't think we should do lunch. individuals like you are best kept away from the general public – that's why there are techie jobs out there. You sit there in front of your screen banging away at the keys like a demented stenographer and give me all you've got, sunshine – I'm a big boy and as I've said before your amateurish attempts at raising my heartbeat over 'comatose' level give me and the rest of the EYE audience a good giggle.

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          5. PeeBee
            August 13, 2014 at 21:54

            Oh – here… allow me to reply to my post above on your behalf, PortalPerson – I know the general layout by now:

            I'm in your expert opinion an idiot; my childish posts are wasted here on an audience of your ilk and should be taken back to the classroom where I learned little more than how to sign my name on the line to collect my Jobseekers' Allowance… yada, yada, de dah, de dum.

            There – saved you the bother. Tell you what – I'll even 'Like' the post on your behalf – save you even that little exertion. I'm just a helpful sort at heart.

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      2. PortalPerson
        August 11, 2014 at 09:53

        And also you cannot guarantee with 100% efficiency that your outrageous fees will net me 10,000 more than a budget agent or selling my home privately now can you? – rhetorical question… the answer is NO

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        1. PeeBee
          August 11, 2014 at 11:56

          PortalPerson – Memo to self I would suggest: 'Liking' own comments is really prattish. But – no more prattish than making sweeping statements (regardless of whether rhetorical or not…) such as the above. How the chuff do you know whether Ric's Fees are "outrageous" or not? We're not ALL selling squillion quid mansionettes in W1, you know…

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          1. PortalPerson
            August 11, 2014 at 13:00

            PeeBee. I get why most people think you're an idiot now and I must say I have to agree. It did not occur to me to like my own posts but I guess I will now, thanks 😉

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          2. PeeBee
            August 11, 2014 at 13:06

            I don't give a chuff what you think of me. Care to answer the question?

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          3. PortalPerson
            August 11, 2014 at 13:16

            I already did answer the question.

            Care to answer why you hide behind a silly little boys name like "PeeBee". Could it stand for your initials, I know of a couple of brash, childish, arrogant and immature little boys on linked in with "P.B" as their initials – perhaps you're one of them?

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          4. PeeBee
            August 11, 2014 at 13:23

            Same reason as you 'hide' behind a ridiculous monicker like 'PortalPerson' I guess…

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          5. PortalPerson
            August 11, 2014 at 13:49

            I will quite happily share my real name.

            John Milner.

            I am not a scared little boy whom has to troll people on the internet to feel good about themselves. 🙂

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          6. PortalPerson
            August 13, 2014 at 07:14

            So PeeBee now you've got that off your chest do you care to share who you actually are? Or are you worried that your childish comments will lose you some business?

            Are you not a man who stands behind his principles and morals and comments no matter the cost or are you the childish little boy that most people think you are?

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          7. PortalPerson
            August 13, 2014 at 07:15

            And yes PeeBee I would love to do lunch

            Send me an email at john.milner.1962@gmail.com to arrange it 😉

            I will even buy lunch seeing as you're most likely in receipt of Income Support or whatever it's called these days.

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        2. Ric
          August 11, 2014 at 18:47

          PortalPerson, I cannot guarantee a net of £10,000 more nor as I say to every client I meet "I cannot guarantee anything, be it a sale, a price or a timescale" unless they allow me to sell it cheaply …………………and usually more often than not, that is met with "I'm not in a rush and I won't sell it for less or well mine is bigger and better" ………..My point which was merely in response to your slightly crazy suggestion that "Most" sellers do not care about the possibility of getting more money….is I think if you had said "Some" sellers or maybe even the "minority" would rather get a cheap fee over getting the best price I may have agreed, but really, most vendors would rather take less and pay less…… nah, sorry! load of tosh mate…..really is a load of tosh, you know it but you will never admit it………………. you would only ever know if you had valued as many houses as I had to understand what sellers want……………………….Interesting the above story doesn't ask these 1,500 would getting the best price for your home be important to you….! I reckon you would be hard pressed to find more than 10% of any number of people questioned to truthfully answer they do not care about getting the best price for their home and just a cheap fee is important……………………I'm not big on getting into a personal tit for tat with people as everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you started the other day wanting to assist an agent in getting his/her website better, you scrolled through 5 pages of google to then I have to assume "pitch for business" with that agent and you have also said from memory "just putting a property on the web is not enough meaning RM and Z" yet now doing just this is enough, you puzzle me a little and I have to wonder what your business agenda/motive is on here………. which I am sure you would never be truthful or open enough to share……….anyway have a good night.

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          1. PeeBee
            August 12, 2014 at 08:42

            Got it in one, Ric – this guy has an agenda all right – which I doubt he could hide behind an aircraft hangar! Needs serious people skills training in order to justify his ton-and-a-half an hour rate though – but I guess it would be unfair to expect better from someone whose 'interaction' is via a broadband connection…

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          2. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 09:13

            If you can't guarantee me a better fee for selling my property then why on earth should I not try and get a cheaper deal elsewhere, do you think I should pay your fees because you somehow deserve them for another reason?

            Selling homes is a business transaction and if you bring nothing to the table then you don't deserve my business. I can take less risk and have less exposure by using someone cheaper or doing it myself. Agents have this arrogance that they feel they should be the ONLY people allowed to sell property which is comical at best.

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          3. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 09:14

            PeeBee:

            You are an idiot, come up with some original content and get your own arguments. Jumping on other people's legitimate comments to have a dig at me is very childish.

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          4. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 09:22

            Ric:

            I have no other agenda than frustration at the property industry. You (as agents) (the majority of anyway) seem to want everything both ways all the time then spit your dummy out when it doesn't go your way.

            I am a neutral bystander that doesn't even operate in the industry anymore. I have many agent friends who look at the industry and share my views on marketing, general agent practices, general agent attitudes and they all want change. There will be no change in the industry until you all stop bickering between each other about costings and who does a better job for lesser money or whatever the topic of conversation might be that week.

            I have NO love for the large portals but I have less love for the idiot agents who continue to feed the beasts with their stock / content and the MOAN about the price increases. Agents mutual will be no different, it might be great for a year but as soon as they have more than 50% market share they will end up on a money hungry pathway to the same place that RM & Z are currently. Yet quite a lot of people on this website (and that **** called EAT) sing the praises of AM for being the coming messiah and the savior of the property industry.

            Large portals are NOT the only way to advertise property and get successful leads/sales/lettings and until agencies realise that there will be no change and there WILL be in-fighting and price increases as the portals capitalise on the arguing and disarray

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          5. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 09:27

            I should also comment on the "getting someone's website better" comment that you made.

            My comment was regarding to the fact their website was terrible and that I would not give them my business (SELLING MY HOUSE).

            I could care less how their website is for everyone else, that's their choice, I was pointing out that they lost my business because they have a bad website that doesn't promote trust.

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          6. PeeBee
            August 12, 2014 at 11:06

            "I was pointing out that they lost my business because they have a bad website that doesn't promote trust."

            Erm… I have a question (hopefully this one WILL get an answer…). Were you actually seriously considering GIVING THEM your business in the first place?

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          7. Ric
            August 12, 2014 at 11:13

            "Selling homes is a business transaction" you see for me this is where you are wrong. The vast majority of people are sat in their "homes" when I am talking to them and most have a story and a memory to tell, I do remind them that I get paid nothing for not achieving their goal and I am here to make money, but they know by then I am going to treat them as if no one else matters……………. these are people! and people buy people in most industries, especially in the housing market in my opinion and most do not see their homes as a product or a business transaction……………We (PortalPerson & Ric) will lock horns all day on this and if you met me, I almost guarantee you will say "okay, perhaps this bloke is different" I am passionate about marketing excellence and customer care and I use all the things you hate about agents against them! rubbish pictures, lazy descriptions and fees which puzzle me sometimes, I would (some will not like me now) rather be seen as very reasonably for what I offer, and not say well I sell more houses or my photos are better so I am more expensive……. everything I do should be exceptional regardless of my fee's……………….If I chose to list the next 50 houses for £299 all in upfront I would still offer them everything I offer now and why not…..I actually enjoy the thank you as much as the money, perhaps this is what makes some agents successful as people do trust after meeting us, we are their to help and assist……BUT they have choices and if you DO NOT DELIVER on your promises you will fail (so I never promise I will sell it nor at what price, as I cannot, but they KNOW I WILL be 100% committed to the cause)……Just out of interest…………………You say you don't operate in the industry anymore, can I ask what you did "in the industry"

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          8. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 14:40

            PeeBee: Go read the comment you idiot. I am currently selling a property and (WAS) looking for an agent to handle this. The agents that got a call or a contact where ones that actually cared about their website, the ones that didn't didn't.

            Can you answer why you're so stupid?

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          9. PortalPerson
            August 12, 2014 at 14:59

            Ric:

            Yes you may ask what I did in the industry.

            For many years I was a technical infrastructure and marketing consultant for a few large portals. Coming from a background in large scale operations and what is now known as "big data" I consulted portals on how to get things done at scale. After that I went on to consult for many large scale websites in terms of marketing and brand perception – most of which were in the property industry in the UK and USA

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          10. Ric
            August 12, 2014 at 16:36

            Sorry PortalPerson so what did you do in the property industry? I see you were somewhere in the background of a property portal but WHAT did you do in the "Property Industry" you seem to suggest you were in the "internet industry" not quite the same however your agenda now clear for all to see………….

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          11. PeeBee
            August 12, 2014 at 16:46

            PortalPerson. I just wish I could see the look of impish glee on your face when typing your comments to me. Enjoy it – it hurts not; sticks not and, sorry to widdle on your puny firework – makes me chuckle so that must REALLY grind your gears. For information, I have been called far worse by WAY bigger and better than you, Sir. And I'm still coming back for more. I'll take it as a compliment that you need to go so far out of your way and disrupt your busy-busy work schedule to call me an idiot several times a day. Let's do lunch sometime – you can knock yourself out attempting to dent my thick skin face to face. I'd truly love to see the frustration coming over you like a mist rolling over the heathery hills.

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          12. PeeBee
            August 12, 2014 at 16:48

            Oh – nearly forgot – if all we Agents have to do to avoid dealing with complete uber-numpties is to 'care' a little less about our websites – we will all save money AND grief by the bucketload. Thanks for the tip – you're a sweetie. ;o)

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          13. PortalPerson
            August 13, 2014 at 07:12

            Ric.

            I quote clearly stated what I did in the industry, if you can't read then that's your problem 😉

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          14. Ric
            August 13, 2014 at 09:51

            You are not actually in the "Property Industry" you see for me, someone involved in the property industry would have clocked up a fair few hours talking face to face or over the phone with BUYERS, VENDORS, TENANTS, LANDLORDS, DEVELOPERS, BUILDERS or any other kind of customer about property transactions and negotiating deals etc etc…………………………… My accountant isn't a PROPERTY PRO just because is helps my business work efficiently………….If your company was called in to help the NHS website, would you hijack a Doctors forum claiming to be someone who works in the medical profession? Your an IT person! Your I.D says it all……PORTALperson, not PROPERTYperson……..

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    2. Ric
      August 12, 2014 at 10:32

      No nerves touched with me, after all, your problem is with where the market industry is now, and I am here enjoying that, so I am pretty relaxed with how my business and knowledge sits TODAY….. what is funny is how my opinion seems to be keeping your attention and squeezing your nerves rather than touching them……………ANYWAY……….what I did ask and you side stepped the straight forward question (which I don't, I think I have answered every question you have put at me) …….is how do you think RM or Z could keep the revenues they are used to and or the shareholders happy…….? PS: you've touched on another BIG point I make to clients and staff members who I train: The customers do indeed care not about the past, simply what I will do for them? You are right!! ……but you are not on here as a customer asking for advice on selling or how I can help, you are simply popping at agents…………..keep you comments consistent, I am happy to answer any question you throw at me (within reason LOL) so will you do me a favour and answer what I asked as your knowledge seems vast in this field.

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      1. PortalPerson
        August 12, 2014 at 14:50

        Your opinion doesn't get on my nerves one iota, what is mildly annoying is that you claim to be in touch with your audience but were shocked when it turned out 80% of them would rather not use an agent. If 80% of my target audience didn't want to use my product and ONLY used because they really had little other choice I would be reconsidering my business model. After-all 20% market share is not really sustainable between the thousands of agencies in the UK should the shift happen.

        Regarding my comments – they are consistent but they also vary with the current context of the debate – that's how debates work is it not?

        I did not notice your question about Rightmove shareholders so I will answer it now. I could care less about Rightmove and their shareholders, one thing you will see is that if the industry shifts away from them they will kick back while they have the traffic to do so (i/e before it finds a new home on AM / Facebook / Twitter [Insert portal here]) and the ONLY power they have without stock is the backlash of traffic it will retain for 4-6 weeks after agents dropping their stock. If you truly believe they won't use that traffic to make money then I feel sorry for you, they will hold NO loyalty to agents and why would they – it is business after all. Should AM be a success (remains to be seen) then RM & Z will have no other option than to change their model to at least recoup a percentage of their revenue.. Ask yourself why would they throw away their huge revenue streams without doing something about it all in the name of showing loyalty to the remaining agents (if any) and agents whom have left them????? Their past actions already prove they won't (i/e raising fees year on year)

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        1. Ric
          August 12, 2014 at 16:24

          This could go on for a while portalperson………. *Find me acting or saying I am shocked………. *find me saying RM or Z will not use traffic to make money…………. *I've lost it to whether I am against your thoughts or with them to be honest…….I agree they do not care, I agree they will try and fight back (and already are in my opinion, I think RM+ the new version is geared for a private seller and we are the guinea pigs) BUT my posts have ONLY EVER been in reply to your crash comments: like…..MOST sellers do not care for the best deal……….. Take my 0% (yep you can't get cheaper than this) FREE GRATIS AUCTION department, sell through me and basically if you do not care about getting the best deal, you can sell within 28 days AND not pay for the privilege BUT still get all my services……. WHY does my 0% selling fee's advert and banner never get hits and the Auction phone never ring off the hook…….. its free……YOUR DREAM……gratis….nada………well the catch as I say is the reason I've not made my millions this way……..the home owners will not set low reserves the pure possibility of GETTING a BETTER DEAL drives them (not me, I would prefer the do the Auction route I would make more money! ) to say I would rather pay more and get more hopefully………….Lets perhaps meet here in 1 years time and continue the debate……time will tell, as I have said before……

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          1. PortalPerson
            August 13, 2014 at 07:34

            Ric:

            Your comments don't really reflect how you make yourself out to be in business. One one hand you defend your industry colleagues by slating Online Only agents for being cheaper, then on the other you say yourself that you offer cheaper and cheaper deals because you "care" about doing a good job and the money is secondary (I'm paraphrasing what your comments come across as)

            Have you ever had dealings with a Online Only agent? I know I have and they're not the monsters they're made out to be.

            I can ONLY ever go on my own experiences and experiences of friends and family whom I trust. For the most part they and myself have had less than ideal experiences with "brick and mortar" agents – this is for a number of reasons. Do I think EVERY "brick and mortar" agent is the same… Of course not, that would be stupid and there would be no agents left in business. Do I think the majority of agents are dinosaurs stuck in the dark ages – Yes I do.. This is from 20+ years experience in digital communications and marketing as a whole. Do I think that ultimately one day that the industry will tip in favour of "Online only" agents – again yes I do. I have personally seen and helped it happen in a lot of other industries and it's a natural progression of state and logic. Do I think that the majority of people on the surface don't care what you will do for the extra cost – again yes they don't care, they see two figures and lean toward the cheaper end – this is HUMAN NATURE. Ultimately you (and by you I mean "You as a whole" like your "online only" counterparts offer a service and if your market feels that the cost outweighs the benefits then they will go elsewhere where they feel the cost/benefit factor is more balanced – this is basic economics. A lot of "Brick and Mortar" agents ***** and moan about this and think they are the only ones in the country that should be able to sell a house, using arguments such as quality of service, local knowledge, negotiating skills etc as ways to shoot down competition. In actual fact these things cannot be guaranteed by "Brick and mortar" nor "Online only" offerings. BOTH models have their flaws and strengths but *******, moaning and sniping at competition because it's cheaper with a holier than thou attitude just makes your "Brick and Mortar" brethren come across as the kids who didn't get the toy they wanted at Christmas. Now the trouble I have with it all is this…. "Brick and mortar" agents DON'T need to charge the prices they do and they can be more competitive quite easily by making better marketing decisions but they choose not to and that carries a cost which is passed on to the consumer. "Online only" agents still carry some of this cost but don't have the overheads (offices) and can curb prices in this way.

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      2. PortalPerson
        August 12, 2014 at 15:00

        Answered above, it seems this website cannot put replies in the right place all the time!

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        1. Ric
          August 12, 2014 at 16:42

          Don't be starting on PIE with your technical criticism, it makes it much funnier to see a rant before the comment which caused it…!…… please smile 🙂 Im avin a larf……..

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    3. Ric
      August 12, 2014 at 10:40

      PortalPerson……. PEOPLE promote trust NOT websites!!!! The examples are endless…… British Gas GOOD website for consumers AWFUL with customer service and how they treat people…… RYANAIR, fantastic updated website much easier to book a flight…..do I trust they will be ON TIME……nah……even STELIOS does better………..What if every website you looked at had ONLY client testimonials on their homepage…..from genuine people who trusted them and thanked them…..would this be good?

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      1. PortalPerson
        August 12, 2014 at 14:53

        Ric:

        It's the first impression and trust is promoted by HOW much I perceive you to care about your business from my first impression of it. For example If I have NEVER seen your office before and I walked in to a mobile shack situated next to the rubbish dump I would up and leave…. that's no different from me seeing your brand online, in an advert or on its website… First impressions cannot be redone.

        I'm surprised you don't understand this concept being that an agents first conversation quite often determines if they get the business from the client or not…

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      2. PortalPerson
        August 12, 2014 at 14:56

        A quick follow up.

        British Gas is a PLC with a massive brand seen through TV, Postal Service, Radio, Internet… It is not a small estate agent that a potential client has never heard of. People also talk with their money, if they don't like the service from British Gas they move elsewhere, same with me and the bad agency I went on… Ultimately I talked with my money

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        1. Ric
          August 12, 2014 at 16:29

          Sorry you are twisting and turning again……. you see, I am just saying TRUST is not provided by a WEBSITE but by PEOPLE……now if you had said FIRST IMPRESSIONS I would completely agree! That is a different monkey BUT my point again FIRST IMPRESSIONS are not enough ALONE…… because at some point PEOPLE get involved and this is where the business is won and lost……….. I assume you went on with an Online Agent then or listed the property yourself?

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          1. PortalPerson
            August 13, 2014 at 07:44

            Ric:

            I don't see how I'm twisting and turning…

            A FIRST IMPRESSION builds the foundation for a relationship. A trusting relationship starts the first second that I come into contact with you or your brand. My point is that come people (for various reasons) get to a website and decide to no longer continue business there. Some reasons are….. Terrible website, Website not working on mobile device(s), Slow website, (worst case) website that doesn't work at all, website that doesn't return relevant search results….. In a person to person setting these might be comparable (in no particular order) as…. Smelly / Dirty office, Arrogant or Rude agents / staff, Smelly agent, Rotten sale/lettings boards, Dirty shop window….

            All things that in your business you would care about when making a first impression and if you don't then you're either arguing for the sake of arguing or you're the 1 in a billion business persons that wouldn't care about first impressions.

            I agree that first impressions are not enough alone but quite a lot of the time you don't get any more chances as the first impression is off putting. If you can't see that then there is zero point even having debates with you as this is a fundamental and intrinsic part of business

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          2. Ric
            August 13, 2014 at 10:13

            I liked that……. I agree…. can't not agree…..1st Impression are vital……..that's why my brand from website to office, makes my phones ring and doors open BUT all I am saying is PEOPLE are so so important……but I can't agree more, on branding, we have had 5 brand changes Image upgrades in our 24 years of trading. (not a lot for some) but we are always looking at the next generation how will they see us, as the past is the past and they don't care. Im with you on this one!

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  3. Paul H
    August 11, 2014 at 06:59

    Who keeps paying Jefferies to make these zoopla/rightmove friendly reports?

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  4. Fencesitter
    August 11, 2014 at 07:53

    The arrogance of some people beggars belief. "Consumers should remember that it is the estate agents who provide RM and Z with all of the data which allows them to exist. Without estate agents there would be no Z or RM…" The cheek of the public!! Might I suggest a glaringly obvious amendment? "Estate agents should remember that it is the consumers who provide them with their instructions. Without consumers wanting to move home, there would be no estate agents…" Agents are mandated to use all and every means to secure the best deal for their clients. That self-evidently does NOT mean switching from demonstrably successful portals to another, totally untried and as yet completely invisible one, simply for their own selfish interests. Once again, we have the supreme irony of estate agents – of all people! objecting to other middlemen taking a large slice of the action…

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    1. EHenderson
      August 11, 2014 at 08:38

      I couldn't agree more. It is breathtaking that anyone should ask that "consumers should remember that it is the estate agents who provide Rightmove and Zoopla with all of the data which allows them to exist". Astonishing.

      The consumer is the customer, the originator of the data and the party paying the fee. They will not be the slightest bit interested if you start reducing their ability to sell or get the best price by removing their property from Rightmove or Zoopla.

      I've been on the fence until recently, but my mind is now firmly made up. Agents Mutual will be bad for our industry and bad for those agents who go through with this. Unless you operate in rural, low tech areas this will effect your bottom line and once that happens it will start to fall apart. The damage done to estate agency in the meantime could be irreparable.

      I'm out.

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      1. Ric
        August 11, 2014 at 08:54

        Why will AM be bad?

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      2. Paul H
        August 11, 2014 at 09:04

        " I've been on the fence until recently, but my mind is now firmly made up. Agents Mutual will be bad for our industry and bad for those agents who go through with this. "….Oh I wouldn't bother, the battle is already won. Some 3500 branches now on board and pretty much most leading agents have signed up, the rest will now inevitably follow. Nice try though!

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      3. wilko
        August 11, 2014 at 09:21

        "Agents Mutual will be bad for our industry and bad for those agents who go through with this"…..I love this type of comment…..and if we don't go through with it how much would Zoopla and RM be charging us in 5 years time ? (have you read their projections to their shareholders?)…You are missing the point, in my view, that agents would be squeezed so much that eventually some would not be able to operate and pay their bills if the status quo remained.

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        1. danny
          August 11, 2014 at 11:26

          Wilko,
          ive been an agent for 25 years. I am paying one quarter of what I used to pay the papers to sell houses in the 90's with inflation in mind. I used to have to use 4 papers,Tell me how I will go bust? In 5 years I cant see my price quadrupling to being me back to the level I used to pay to get my houses seen by a larger audience ?

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          1. wilko
            August 11, 2014 at 13:04

            So you agree with, and are happy with, Rm and Z predictions/claims to shareholders ?…You will be happy to pay that size increase in fees and the increases thereafter? You have read them, right?…oh no you couldn't have done, otherwise you would realise that you will be lucky if they don't quadruple them. Monthly fees on RM have already gone up approx. 7 fold in the last 10 years (if you include brand, mobile devices etc) so why do you assume that it will not quadruple according to their promises to shareholders? You think shareholders will be happy with little or no increases?
            I didn't say you would go bust…I said some will not be able to operate and pay their bills but you are just the sort of customer they love…you are clearly successful and have said in your post that you have plenty more £££ set aside to give them over the next few years……but once they're quadrupled, you might have to re consider aye?

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          2. danny
            August 12, 2014 at 09:05

            I'll make my decision in a business like manner when they come and charge me quadruple.right now it's decent value for money. What I won't do is pull off all my clients property to put onto a new portal with no users and tell them they shouldn't mind because I'm saving a buck .. This quadruple fee thing sounds just like an AM meeting I went to "woe is you , we're all doomed captain mannering" I heard nothing about heir actual plans … It was a bit embarrassing being honest

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    2. Ric
      August 11, 2014 at 08:41

      Should Online Agents have High Street Offices Fencesitter? I only ask based on "Agents are mandated to use all and every means to secure the best deal for their clients" so do they miss out on that all important potential walk in client………"if no is your answer" then at some point in the future why would NOT being on RM but being on AM be any worse than an agent not being on the high street…? (I assume you are not saying you know EVERY buyer has access to the internet and I mean EVERY!!) ………….NOT often will I say this I guess but as PortalPerson rightly states, the buyers will find the property anyway and GOOD AGENTS will continue to promote to both online house hunters, print media house hunters and walk in house hunters! all catered for!………that aside AM will become portal number 1 soon, so like I find now, not being on number 2 does not matter for me at present…..and by that I mean I am on RM and not Z yet I still list more than any other agent locally, they care not for number 2…..what you suggest is a touch crazy to think business can only ever add to the tool kit and not replace tools…… if a tool no longer performs get rid….nothing wrong with that, assuming the replacement tool does the job as well if not better and it will!!!! and if AM becomes number 1, I will sell against RM like I do Z now and it WILL work…..

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      1. wilko
        August 12, 2014 at 12:17

        To Danny, totally respect your decision to re look at at the current Portals when they quadruple their charges. And by the way, OTM is more expensive than Zoopla initially so my motivation, like many others is not to save a buck but to create a site that is owned by the agents, 1 member , 1 vote, so that when RM and Z do quadruple their charges (as per their written promises to their shareholders) you, and other professional agents will have another option to take into consideration when making that "business decision".

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        1. PeeBee
          August 12, 2014 at 12:41

          wilko – "…when RM and Z do quadruple their charges (as per their written promises to their shareholders)…"

          How many years do you think THAT will take, wilko?

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  5. wilko
    August 11, 2014 at 08:36

    Nice report, although nothing new mentioned in real terms.
    I've said many times before; When Zoopla lose £millions on the launch of otm they will start their move towards private listings/online estate agency…..even without the advent of otm they would probably have had to move along this route anyway, as two portals could not hold all the agents and still deliver to shareholders by regular increases to agents. Zoopla will not want to miss this opportunity of becoming no.1 online agent before other online agents start to take larger chunks of the market.

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  6. Taff
    August 11, 2014 at 09:39

    Paul H has a good point; who IS paying Jeffries to carry out these “deep dive” surveys? Can we find out? So 70% of homeowners may well WANT their property on both RM and Z, but can’t see the irony in complaining that in the next breath they moan that agents are charging “too much”. If you want something you have to pay for it. Sadly a lot of people expect something for nothing these days – well they can’t have it. 79% of consumers would use the portals to list their homes directly – crack on. I’ve asked this before and still have not had a good answer, but when you advertise your property directly, who works out the price? Online “valuation” tools are a total waste of time. My boy tried valuing my house over the weekend using one – from memory it was out by 40%. I’m sure some will just say “We’ll get a local agent to value it but then advertise it privately”. By doing so, they just admit they DO need a local agent and if it becomes a real issue, the only thing I can see changing is that agents will simply stop giving “free” valuations / market appraisals and the “Something for nothing” brigade will have to think of something else, but what else is there? Bear in mind too that talk is cheap (eg if asked I would say that I would love to be able to do all my own car maintenance but bluntly my mechanical knowledge isn’t good enough) so when the something for nothing brigade find that house selling isn’t as simple as banging a few **** photos on a portal site, I reckon they won’t bother – especially if they have to pay £250 up front; which they will have to because neither Z or RM will wait for payment if / when the house is sold. That’s all the “75% thought estate agency fees too high” statement tells me is that 75% have obviously never tried doing it themselves. The near equally percentage of brand awareness is quite re-assuring especially as we will probably commit to Z when On The Market (OTM) kicks off. I’m quite looking forward to January 2015.

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  7. surrey1
    August 11, 2014 at 10:45

    I think my local mechanic is expensive. I still don't thumb through a Haines manual and try and plug a laptop into my motor thinking it can't be all that hard.

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  8. Fencesitter
    August 11, 2014 at 10:56

    Ric – good point about the high street presence for online outfits! The same logic would certainly seem to apply. But then, I'm not particularly bothered about the online-only budget guys. After all, if you genuinely believe you deliver a superior product that's worth the extra, why would you be? Besides, I still say that moving other people's properties to a completely untried portal – not because it's going to be of any benefit to them at all, but simply because it cuts our overheads – is a pretty shabby trick. Unless, of course, those that do so are going to offer vendors a reduction in their fees because those oh-so-onerous advertising costs are suddenly so much lower…

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    1. Ric
      August 11, 2014 at 16:38

      Hi Fencesitter… All I can say to this is: this is why AM is a two stage plan…… stage 1: have OTM launch and become No.2 in the property portal world. Then stage 2 will be played out, but by then AM aka OTM will not be a website never heard of nor not tested, in fact quite the opposite……. I get the thought process now about not tested, BUT think of the marketing and promo the member agents will be doing….. I will be putting FULL PAGE PAPER ADVERTS at my expense to promote it…… people don't look for property in the paper anyway, so I will use all of my print media budget to promo AM….. everything I do will promo it, I will still be on RM so clients happy, Im not on Z now so clients don't care, Stage 1 is all agents are concerned about at the minute. Although I say again…. I am surprised more AM agents haven't ditched Z to help the transition!

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  9. Eric Walker
    August 11, 2014 at 11:26

    I could have bought my car online and BMW could have saved what ever they paid Stephen James. I didn't because I received great advice & service and didn't pay them a penny.

    Online agents keep on about the £1000's people can save, which may fit the SE model, but how can they claim that for a property in Liverpool we just sold for under £40k and for which some agents were pitching a fee of 1% plus VAT?

    Where I live, there is a huge shortage of properties. I can get a great deal from the local agents all of whom are very optimistic about the sale price. One even offered to send their contractor round to quote on a couple of things which need doing. I am away a lot, so they would have keys and undertake viewings and another even offered to top up the cat food – would I entrust an online agent to do that? (keys, not cat food)

    In the scheme of things, does 1.25% commission really affect my decision to select an agent? Vendors often consider an offer of maybe 5% below asking price, so is this 'saving' really material? After all, buyers really don't care. A friend recently tried to see privately, 2 potential buyers offered on the basis they wanted a cut of the saving on agents fee. Eventually, he sold through a local agent and got £12k more than he was asking though informal tender. The fee was £6k plus VAT.

    Yes, private listings on RM & Z would be a huge threat to our business model, but at what cost to the portals? If either of these portals broke across this red line, they would lose their core business almost immediately and instead have an unpredictable non contractual business model.

    Interesting times – if AM is successful, then it may just force someones hand.

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  10. Fencesitter
    August 11, 2014 at 11:49

    "In the scheme of things, does…commission really affect my decision to select an agent?" Well, apart from the fact that vendors routinely do just that, choosing the cheapest "traditional high street agent," this is exactly my point (or one of them). If you are confident that you offer a genuinely superior product, what's to worry? Do Aston Martin agonise about being undercut by Kia? The real trouble, I suspect, is that a lot of agents who have been happily charging "the going rate" (aka "the local cartel rate") for years know full well that they don't really offer a sufficiently superior service to justify the extra cost. And if I was one of them, I'd be worried too…

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  11. Eric Walker
    August 11, 2014 at 12:08

    @fencesitter – the small flaw in your argument is that rarely is the cheapest agent in any town the market leader. In London, the market leaders have the highest fees. Interestingly, according to the Property Academy, 84% of people pay the fee the agents quotes and don't haggle. 32% of people were quoted a cheaper fee by another agent, but didn't take it. Fees are not a critical as you may think – service and demonstrable results are key. As regards 'cartels' – front line competitive agency doesn't support this. Agents win instructions through whatever means they can. They don't do gentlemen's agreements and quite right too.

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  12. Cardiff Agent
    August 11, 2014 at 14:03

    People may not have heard of Onthemaket now, but ask the same question at the end of January 2015.

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    1. PortalPerson
      August 11, 2014 at 14:31

      Cardiff ?

      In the same month as Launch ? …. I don't know of any marketing campaign in the history of the internet that has had that much success….

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  13. Taff
    August 11, 2014 at 16:16

    What I don’t understand is …. IF it’s such a brilliant business model AND there is such a strong demand (80% apparently) from homeowners to ditch estate agents by the busload in favour of selling online on portals allowing private sales, WHY HASN’T SOMEONE DONE IT ALREADY? Perhaps they have … and failed. I’d rather go by what people do than what they say they would like to do. What’s stopping someone setting up a private portal dealing with private listings and what’s stopping homeowners using them now? Nothing as far as I can see. Please stop “threatening” to do something – either DO IT or shut up. Anyway I’ve got to go, my application form for the Diplomatic Corp needs posting.

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    1. PortalPerson
      August 12, 2014 at 09:24

      Don't forget the industry is run by dinosaurs who like the status quo!

      The whole industry could be flipped quite easily with an offering such as Indeed do for jobs (a free portal) with more jobs than any other portal on the internet combined – simply by scraping content from websites and other job boards….

      Indeed get more traffic in one day than RM & Z combined in a week – best of all it's free.

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  14. Robert May
    August 12, 2014 at 06:59

    The story claims "The research interviewed 1,500 home owners, of whom 36% are planning to move within two years, and released the results on Friday." Being able to identify 36% means that there is something not quite with this research. As less than 10% of home owners move each year (less than 21% for the two years) the research has happened upon a target sample that is quite considerably more likely to move than established odds would predict.

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  15. Taff
    August 12, 2014 at 18:58

    I think you’ve lost the plot sir. Why would Agents Mutual “end up on a money hungry pathway to the same place that RM & Z are currently” when it is 100% owned by its AGENT members?

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