Agents’ Mutual makes ‘one other portal’ exception for Scottish market

| Rosalind Renshaw

Agents’ Mutual has entered into a co-operation agreement with Citylets, an independent specialist lettings website for Scotland.

In a variation of Agents’ Mutual’s “one other portal rule”, Scottish letting agents will be able to list on Citylets plus OnTheMarket and one other competing portal – for example, either Rightmove, or Zoopla or another Scottish portal, such as LettingWeb.

The arrangement will allow Scottish agents to continue using Citylets, which is seen as a non-competing portal.

Agents’ Mutual said that the deal will ensure that “Scottish letting agents can benefit from a national and local portals combination which provides sustainable alternatives to the current UK portals – which include Rightmove and Zoopla”.

Agents’ Mutual has been garnering support in Scotland where supporters include Rettie & Co, CKD Galbraith, Corum, Clyde Property, GSPC and Scottish Property Centres.

Citylets, launched in 1999, said it will collaborate with Agents’ Mutual on sales, marketing, technology and business development.

Ian Springett, chief executive of Agents’ Mutual, said: “We are very pleased to be working with Citylets to offer our respective members the opportunity to market their properties on the ideal combination of portals, giving them locally-focused marketing power and UK-wide reach.

“We share the aim of providing for competition in the UK property portal market, a fact underpinned by Citylets’ proven commitment to independence and the Agents’ Mutual constitution under which the agents listing on the portal control it on a one-member, one-vote basis.”

Thomas Ashdown, founder and managing director of Citylets, said: “Citylets identifies with the ambitions of Agents’ Mutual and we recognise the conditions which have precipitated this industry reaction – namely the rapid constriction of portal choice for local agents in recent years.

“We confidently welcome their emergence in Scotland and are happy to add our support.”

 

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75 Comments

  1. smile please
    October 21, 2014 at 07:32

    Already they are making exceptions. Not a great start.

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  2. markpne
    October 21, 2014 at 07:38

    This is a disgrace changing the rules all ready and i am a gold member

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  3. Rivero
    October 21, 2014 at 08:48

    Well this exceeds even my scepticism, moving the goalposts before launch! Surely this highlights the issue that Gold members such as 'markpne' were presumably attracted by the idea of greater control…and yet here we have a fundamental commercial decision being made with gold members having no control whatsoever. I am actually shocked.

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  4. Williesqa
    October 21, 2014 at 08:59

    Very clever indeed. You can't use Zpla direct here for lets without using another letting portal aswell ( much to my annoyance) so a smart move. I know this will be the decider for many taking the leap.

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    1. Paul H
      October 21, 2014 at 10:17

      This very well looks like a quick death for Zoopla in Scotland. I wonder how the city will react.

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  5. Brocket
    October 21, 2014 at 09:16

    Where's the logic in this?! Citylets are expensive and it completely compromises the Agents Mutual model. The first ***** in the armour and precisely what Rightmove and Zoopla want to see. Shame!

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  6. jmeapps01
    October 21, 2014 at 09:17

    That's decision made for me! Just proves the articles can be changed at any time.

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    1. wilko
      October 21, 2014 at 12:09

      So does that mean you're signing up?

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  7. danny
    October 21, 2014 at 09:22

    Just to confirm agents in Glasgow can use one other portal , unless they are GSPC member where they can use GSPC and/or one other portal unless they are a LettingWeb member where they get Zoopla ,LettingWeb and/or one other portal … But then if they are are a citylets member they can have CityLets and/or one other ….tell me ,who's going to be enforcing all this? I would be dumbfounded if anyone in Scotland will be silly enough to remove any stock from anything as I wouldn't … Join all three up ere and wait to see what happens … Absolute shambles, what an you expect from a business that is wanting to launch with such terms

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  8. danny
    October 21, 2014 at 09:34

    Would love to hear from a follower of The Church of Springett, patron saint of estate agents (registered charity 9134556, all donations make it to agents pockets because I'm such a nice guy I'm doing this for free , not because I made a mint in wages and shares last time ) about how long before we see "bending"of the rules south of the border?

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    1. Rivero
      October 21, 2014 at 09:37

      I think they are all furiously checking their AM contract T & Cs, as I would be.

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    2. EHenderson
      October 21, 2014 at 09:54

      Why can't people see that this is heading into trouble, and what is our industry association doing supporting this venture?

      It is as clear as day to me that this project is supported by those independent agents who dominate their local markets and want to block out competition, manipulate prices and protect their markets.

      There is a very simple word for this; cartel.

      It is no wonder to me that Rightmove are sitting back and remaining silent. They know that ultimately if the thing gets any traction a simple letter to the competition authorities will mire the AM team in litigation and the whole thing will come tumbling down.

      If they think that they can protect themselves by naming it Mutual, and calling it a club, they are sorely mistaken. Ultimately this hurts the consumer and if that fact hits the consumer press, a ton of bricks will fall on it, damaging the reputations of those who take part and the industry as a whole.

      Its disgraceful really.

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      1. Williesqa
        October 21, 2014 at 12:17

        A simple letter to the competitions authority and AM collapses? Don't be ridiculous.
        Oh and imagine hurting the consumer by moving your stock to a new portal! Criminal! Sorry – disgraceful! LOL

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  9. JAM01
    October 21, 2014 at 09:34

    'Only one other portal' rule….apart from places where they want to be on two other portals. Seriously….you have got to be kidding. 4000 agents recruited under false pretenses. "I think you have sunk my battleship" just comes to mind. RM & Z must be cracking up in hysterics.

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  10. wilko
    October 21, 2014 at 09:44

    Come on …be honest….pro or anti OTM who had heard of citylets before this article, or advertised on them? (unless you are in Scotland)…..There will be loads of lesser sites that will carry otm members properties. Companies like movewithus, who power loads of agents' own websites, upload to the movewithus central website. Like citylets, movewithus are not a threat so agents who support otm and have their own sites powered by a "mother site" like movewithus will be on 4 sites, possibly more (own site,movewithus, rightmove and OTM). As far as I'm concerned, along with most genuine supporters of otm , as long as you drop either zoopla or rightmove then that fulfils the mutuals' main initial aims.

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    1. danny
      October 21, 2014 at 09:58

      Handful of straws? As far as I saw it the idea was to create a mutual with one agent ,one vote that delivered an advertising platform that meant that no firm was handed an advantage in the front room by dropping one of the main two. As a result the cost of advertising would decrease .In reality in Scotland it's meant joining more portals to back door your way in now which means you'll have to pay citylets and LettingWeb , Rightmove and agents mutual.sounds like your a good member Wilko, which way did you vote on this issue after Springett asked you?

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      1. wilko
        October 21, 2014 at 10:45

        Never spoken to anyone from AM …or done any surveys with them.don't know what Ian S looks or sounds like! Total blind faith gold member. Signed up all branches immediately the first gold proposition was ready. Never made a business decision based on an idea before…..but liked the idea so much, and realised it wouldn't get off the ground without support, so decided to support it. If it works, then great, if it doesn't then I'm totally confifdent that my initial safety net (Rightmove) along with a continued professional agency approach and local market leadership (which doesn't rely on portals alone) will see us through. You see no one ever seems to be able to answer this one…How many totally independent users does Zoopla have over Rightmove? A lot of otm knockers say that it won't work because it wont generate traction, or traffic will not be enough…..but will a property not sell if it is just on Rightmove and not Zoopla at the moment? Rightmove surely has enough traction and traffic to support my sellers properties, doesn't it?

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    2. Rivero
      October 21, 2014 at 10:01

      wilko, you must see that this misses the point…and for the record here is AM's definition of 'portal': 'Any internet-based service which aggregates the residential property listings of estate and/or lettings agents and incorporates functionality that allows such properties to be
      searched for and reviewed as part of that service.‘ I don't see the bit about 'as long as it's RM or Z'! Once you make the exception to the rule it makes it incredibly difficult to enforce the rule at all and that is the point here.

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      1. wilko
        October 21, 2014 at 11:02

        Valid point or not a valid point, I can't see this article leading to 1000s of members pulling their support…..really – can you?….You see I remember seeing the Zoopla rep about 6 months ago who said that that they have a tie in with 100's of other feeder/recommendation sites. One of them is Archants homes 24….Now Archant feed leads to zoopla from their site from theirs which would contain properties advertised by local agents in their publications. I haven't got a clue what deals have, or will go on behind closed doors with portals and Archant / homes 24. But I don't plan to stop using Archant publications, so I assume they will continue to upload that info to their website (that's another one we will be on…so that's 5 without even thinking). If they continue to be "powered by Zoopla" I could fall foul of my own intention in dropping Zoopla – if Homes 24 continue to trade info/leads /property with them. You see its not called "the web" for nothing-there is a lot to un- pick……Although it does give the "antis" a chance to try and discredit the proposition…..but there won't be 1 agent at the otm launch that is only on 2 portals….just as long as they only carry Rightmove OR Zoopla….any others …it's fine with me.

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        1. Rivero
          October 21, 2014 at 11:27

          But if one of your direct competitors (or anyone else for that matter) did decide to list with RM, Z and OTM, you don't think it will be difficult to enforce the 'one other portal' rule in that circumstance if it is not enforced in others? What about NeedaProperty or PrimeLocation? It's either a one other portal rule or not and the fact that this has already been loosened will inevitably lead to agents running all three next year with AM either powerless or without the will to stop them.

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          1. wilko
            October 21, 2014 at 12:06

            Won't happen….you see what advantage is there for an agent to invest £1000s in a new portal and, at the same time, back both the opposition portals. And, bearing in mind it is essential that all agents come off one of the main duopoly, do you not think there will be regular inspections, warnings and expulsions if those rules aren't followed…..? But if you think that otm agents wont/shouldn't be on at least 3 portals come launch then that isn't the case…..as long as Zoopla or RM is removed , then that will be ok fo members….and in a mutual, it's the members that matter.

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          2. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 12:20

            "you see what advantage is there for an agent to invest £1000s in a new portal and, at the same time, back both the opposition portals" – it is more about if an invested agent starts to experience disadvantage having dropped one of the big two and therefore decides to go back on. At that point an expulsion would be of little consequence to the member. AM will need the member more than the other way round. "and in a mutual, it's the members that matter." If you look above you will see that at least one of those members is unhappy with this decision and I'm guessing the members weren't consulted about this fundamental variation of policy…except I bet the larger founding agents were…so already an uneven playing field.

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          3. wilko
            October 21, 2014 at 14:08

            You will have gathered by now that I'm really not concerned about a small number of members who may, according to you, want to leave if it "doesn't work" or who want to "nit pick" the finer points before it launches – like I said…do you think 1000s will leave before it starts because of this article??….you still haven't answered my fundamental question in all of this which is whether or not you think that Rightmove has enough traction/traffic to serve my sellers on a portal without their property being on Zoopla… how many (independent of RM) users just use Zoopla and not Rightmove at all? …..You see knockers like yourself seem to be all wrapped up in reasons why otm won't work when really, to most agents that have signed up, is not of immediate concern ….because Rightmove (in my case) is a perfectly able safety net.

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          4. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 14:29

            "you still haven't answered my fundamental question in all of this which is whether or not you think that Rightmove has enough traction/traffic to serve my sellers on a portal without their property being on Zoopla… how many (independent of RM) users just use Zoopla and not Rightmove at all?" I apologise, I don't remember you asking me that question. If you mean do I think your customers will be disadvantaged by you coming off Zoopla, then my answer is yes.

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          5. wilko
            October 21, 2014 at 15:49

            How will they be disadvantaged….how many applicants exclusively use Zoopla whilst never looking at Rightmove?…simple question? Perhaps you can tell me some numbers?

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          6. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 16:14

            I know Zoopla's unique visitor numbers were around 1.5m a month back at the beginning of 2013…I was told this year that all of ZPG's collective sites have a unique audience of 30m…which clearly I don't believe but I am satified that it is significant enough, and as I've said before we feel we get a decent ROI from Zoopla generally.

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        2. danny
          October 21, 2014 at 16:13

          I can give you the figures for my own business Wilko. I de-duped every email from both over a 6 month period , 19% came from both, that is sent a mail from rm and z , of the rest 41% rm and 40% z. I don't imagine you did this before pulling then ?

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          1. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 16:15

            Interestingly your figures are supported by the Nielson figures released at the beginning of 2013.

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          2. wilko
            October 21, 2014 at 16:28

            Neither of the above comments / "numbers" address my question. Rivero….if Z have 30m unique audience (you suggest they are lying?) then there would be no reason to be on Rightmove as well? Danny….are you telling me that without Zoopla you would lose 40% of your leads and therefore 40% of your business? If I take on 5 properties this week that are the right price are you really, really telling me I will sell 40% less if they are on Rightmove only and not Zoopla?….Please. I know you don't like the proposition of OTM but if you rely that much on Zoopla then you should take a look at your overall business operations.

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          3. wilko
            October 21, 2014 at 16:31

            Oh and also …how do Zoopla know that they are getting a "unique" user??? do they ask everyone if they have ever looked on Rightmove at all? If someone looked at zoopla and made an enquiry about a property, why would they not have a look on Rightmove afterwards as well??

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          4. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 16:44

            "Neither of the above comments / "numbers" address my question" – I believe they both do. "how do Zoopla know that they are getting a "unique" user???" – I believe the Nielson figures (independent, not Zoopla) are based on tracking IP addresses.

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          5. danny
            October 21, 2014 at 23:18

            In answer to your question below I am telling that if one from 5 doesn't find that property then my business is worse off, I also pulled 7 appraisals from ma's from Zoopla which where worth over £20k . Nothing to do with protecting my model, or my marketplace , or my opinion of AM , Zoopla pays for itself times over. I am not convinced am will. Would love to be proved wrong , quite convinced I won't be

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  11. OnTheFence
    October 21, 2014 at 09:56

    Agents Mutual Ltd (Accounts filed 20/10/2014)
    Balance Sheet
    Date Of Accounts 31/01/14
    Tangible Assets £39,920
    Intangible Assets 0
    Total Fixed Assets £39,920
    Stock 0
    Trade Debtors £15,764
    Cash £109,844
    Other Debtors 0
    Miscellaneous Current Assets £1,723
    Total Current Assets £127,331
    Trade Creditors £123,185
    Bank Loans & Overdrafts 0
    Other Short Term Finance 0
    Miscellaneous Current Liabilities 0
    Total Current Liabilities £123,185
    Bank Loans & Overdrafts and LTL £210,000
    Other Long Term Finance £210,000
    Total Long Term Liabilities £210,000

    Capital & Reserves
    Date Of Accounts 31/01/14
    Called Up Share Capital
    P & L Account Reserve -£165,934
    Revaluation Reserve
    Sundry Reserves
    Shareholder Funds -£165,934

    Other Financial Items
    Date Of Accounts 31/01/14
    Net Worth -£165,934
    Working Capital £4,146
    Total Assets £167,251
    Total Liabilities £333,185
    Net Assets -£165,934

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  12. Paul H
    October 21, 2014 at 10:09

    It will be interesting to see the type of partnership that agents mutual has with city let's as it could mean that from day one onthemarket is a massive force in Scotland. This could be a very canny move indeed.

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  13. CP
    October 21, 2014 at 10:10

    EHenderson you have hit the nail on the head with these comments …. "It is as clear as day to me that this project is supported by those independent agents who dominate their local markets and want to block out competition, manipulate prices and protect their markets." …. "Ultimately this hurts the consumer and if that fact hits the consumer press, a ton of bricks will fall on it, damaging the reputations of those who take part and the industry as a whole." … I have been saying exactly the same thing since I first understood what AM was all about … A Director of AM who is a partner of an agency in my area told me that one of the reasons I should join was because "we can stop new competitors opening in our area by denying them access to AM as we control the portal." … I should be rubbing my hands in glee at the fact that only one of my local competitors is with me in not joining AM … but I believe that when the press get to understand what you wrote in your first quote above the backlash against EA's will damage us all.

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  14. Williesqa
    October 21, 2014 at 10:35

    Unless I misunderstand the offering- you can't use Citylets and Letting web and Rightmove? That's three portals?! You can use citylets ( if you like) and 1 other.
    Big deal. Scotland has lots of local portals and if it still means the two nationals get weaker and AM gets more members, roll on.

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  15. Jamie Mac
    October 21, 2014 at 12:26

    Where does this leave S1 Homes?…..all sorts of difficult decisions……..but cannot see the logic in allowing CityLets if you wont allow S1. How does it work for solicitors of Property Centres, does that count as one portal? Therefore cannot go RM or Z if they go OTM. Sorry to be silly about this……enjoying the banter.

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  16. Woodentop
    October 21, 2014 at 12:32

    Where are you PeeBee seems just up your street this one? It strikes me that those anti AM were looking for any excuse. I just wonder at times how many of them work for Z or RM, either that they do not fully understand how AM works and can benefit them. It doesn't matter who the web site is as long as that web site has a market presence which customer don't care is, listens to and works for the agent and financially beneficially to your business. Scratch the last two out if you are on RM or Z. As for the customer, well once agents drive the market to AM (as they did for RM & Z), it's a no brainer.

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    1. Paul H
      October 21, 2014 at 12:40

      "It strikes me that those anti AM were looking for any excuse."…I was thinking the same, but I tell you what I find interesting, it's 12.38pm and there's been less than 700 views on this story and nearly all the posts are from anti AM posters desperate to latch on to anything they can to try to latch on to anything that may halt the #onthemarket juggernaut. In truth no ones really bothered.

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      1. Rivero
        October 21, 2014 at 12:55

        "In truth no ones really bothered" I think you're right that not many pro AMers are bothered, but this decision is a fundamental change in AM's membership rules which has not gone to a vote…so members might not be bothered by this change in the rules, but they might well be bothered about the next and it is the principle that is important here because there will be very little you can do about it.

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        1. Paul H
          October 21, 2014 at 12:57

          Rivero, I thought that you wanted AM to drop the one other portal rule so you should be happy right?

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          1. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 13:17

            I don't particularly 'want' AM to do anything. I have talked about what I see as fundamental flaws in the model of which, yes, the one portal rule is one, because it will not be enforced (and this change makes it even harder to enforce) in which case the proposition will have been miss-sold which in turn may lead to further disillusionment and abandonment of OTM by it's members. If it is to have a portal rule at all it should have been a 'no other portal' rule, but of course that would have been an even tougher sell.

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          2. wilko
            October 21, 2014 at 14:16

            Yes come to think of it, and remembering your many posts about this, you said the "drop one portal rule" was your fundamental flaw in the AM proposition…..now you are hailing how outrageous it is that the rule has been dropped north of the border and how unfair it is for the users signed up!!! No pleasing some people I guess? But then again you have made a significant amount of "anti" posts for someone who, in your words, " don't particularly 'want' AM to do anything" !

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          3. Rivero
            October 21, 2014 at 14:38

            And you really can't see the distinction, Wilko, between not having a one portal rule and having it in some locations but not others? The inherent flaw is the fact it won't be enforceable..even more likely now there are already exceptions to the rule. I don't think it's 'outrageous' I think it's symptomatic of the issue with the rule in the first place and an indicator of problems to come.

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      2. JAM01
        October 22, 2014 at 05:44

        Check the figures now – wrong!

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    2. PeeBee
      October 21, 2014 at 14:38

      Hi Woodentop – I'm here, watching as always. I thought I'd bored you all senseless enough already over the past 7 months with my AM opinions to contribute to this thread – but who knows I might just chip in later if you're really unlucky! In the meantime there's the pressing matters of the Beenys etc of this world to gnaw at… soul food to last a lifetime if I never eat again!! ;o)

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  17. GPL
    October 21, 2014 at 13:03

    What I do know is that I don't wish to work for RM & Zoopla to line the pockets of their shareholders! Sadly, by subscribing to these online shop windows that's exactly what I do! I am gobsmacked after almost 3o years as an estate agent I am walking my industry sleepwalking to disaster!….. enter easyproperty, getsomethingorother, purplediddly and so on! So, AM has got TRACTION as it is coming and it is supported by those actually working within the industry. There was NO RM & NO ZOOPLA… sadly we have become the monkeys and they the organ grinders! I sincerely hope that AM brings clarity to the property market in the sense that we as real estate agents want an online shop window that serves us and our public and NOT THE SHAREHOLDERS! Yes I am clearly in support of AM however when I read those championing RM & ZOOP?….. its astounding when you must see how they manipulate you!? Selling products to agents to help them beat other agents, performance tables to egg you on to beat your competition!? Dear G@d…. you don't run your business, they do!… at least they CONTROL your online shop window and you dance to their tune! I woke up one day and thought I actually work for them, I feed the monster and it grows ever more powerful! Here's hoping that AM brings clarity to the market, an online shop window at a fair price that serves the public and the members who advertise on it! Is that really such a hard ask? Must we simply conform to our online masters? If RM adopted a different approach, realigned their pricing and declined to use the "dark arts" marketing tactics which play agent off agent then I would happily remain an advertising, however offering up my neck again and again for the online vampires to feed is becoming very tiresome! Time for a New Player… enter AM…. let's see how the online shop windows look this time next year. The laugh is RM state they don't do deals yet they are behind the scenes, agent versus agent, astonishing that we sit there and get spanked!… how they must laugh at estate agents!?…. professionals in their industry who can be outwitted by an online shop window seller! What next, "Hi, I'm George your Rightmove Window Cleaner!….. that'll be a £1000 to clean your windows today!" Ho Ho Hooooo A Merry Portal Xmas!

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    1. truthbetold
      October 21, 2014 at 14:57

      You lose your argument when you say " we as real estate agents want an online shop window that serves us and our public ." At the moment the public does not know anything about OTM. They are seemingly happy with the current duopoly. What you are saying is you want something that serves you, the agent. Unfortunately that will not prove to be a game changer. Lets face it the public see us as a necessary evil, and I cannot believe that the rallying cry of 'by agents, and for agents' will be a vote winner, as it were, among the public. And if they are not interested, there will be no traffic, therefore no leads, therefore no value. I read an article on the online IFA magazine today who are actually bullish about AM achieving it's 'critical mass' of members, but flags concerns about 'insufficient' funding, quoting figures of £9.4 million in 2014, and £22 million in 2015, versus £42-46 million per year from both RM and ZPG. The market is not a sentimental beast – logic and finances plus online public habits will ensure the demise of OTM sooner rather than later.

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      1. GPL
        October 21, 2014 at 22:57

        truthbetold…… it's interesting that you and others expect AM to come out the blocks and match RM etc?

        Rather odd view in my opinion…. I don't recall RM coming out the blocks as No1 Portal, No 1 Choice etc?

        I'm assuming that when you entered this industry or perhaps when you were born you were a star estate agent?…. or did you do what a real estate agent does and learn the business properly?

        The "argument" to which you wrongly refer is perhaps better put this way…. OnTheMarket will arrive in 2015 and thereafter will grow…. it's success, exactly like RM, ZOOP etc will depend on the number of agents who advertise with their portal and how the public gradually realise that there is another portal and it gathers "Traction".
        It immensely satisfying to note that the arrival of AM has caused RM & Co to get off their lazy profit ar*ses and start to provide a better service for their members/advertisers….. if we all had the inertia that you and others have RM & Co would just keep milking the herd!
        There is NO argument from me… simply my view… and with almost 30 Years in this industry I think I have a pretty relevant view.
        I don't say I am right… however I put my hand in my pocket and joined AM on the basis that I felt there was a real alternative to the profitsuckers.co.uk
        Time will tell… however I would rather have stepped forward and taken action than lurked in the shadows and accept the puppet masters shoving their profit arms up my ar*e!

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        1. truthbetold
          October 22, 2014 at 10:22

          Again you miss the point GPL. You can huff and puff all you want, but the arena this battle will be won is the public arena, and the number of 'eyeballs' the site attracts. There in nothing I have seen to convince me that the public will give a flying **** about OTM, there will be no discernible SEO for months, and the duoploy can outspend OTM by a factor of 3 to 4 on marketing. Rather than going for the frankly amateur approach of 'build it and they will come' I will wait and see and act in my best interests. In the meantime I look forward to competing for instructions with local agents who only have 1 of the major portals and therefore access to only 1 part of the audience. I would love to be proven wrong but yesterdays City Lets decision is the first of a death by a thousand cuts, IMO.

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  18. Eric Walker
    October 21, 2014 at 13:26

    I am neutral and believe its for AM members to decide how they feel about this perhaps not unsurprising decision. Scotland has a different and unique dynamic. As a point of interest, Zoopla is more recognised in Scotland than many in England imagine. I chose not to sign up for On The Market two main reasons. I like a track record and prefer my customers to decide where we advertise – not a portal with a lengthy initial commitment. I was also concerned about the term 'portal' as the reps I met couldn't define it and were unable to say how it would be policed and enforced. I remember well the restriction of no other portal as required by Primelocation. It didn't last long for a number of reasons. Agents Mutual is a mutual so I am sure this decision was er – mutually agreed – after all it's the members who have a say. I welcome OnTheMarket into the business. Competition can only be a good thing and I wish them well. We may even revisit our advertising towards the end of our existing contracts on the basis results count – everything else is just noise. I sincerely don't think RM & Z provide a bad return on investment but they have become complacent which is why a good alternative is well received by all. They need a kick up the proverbial and losing revenue is the only language big companies understand. I don't see the need for battle-lines to be drawn. I do know from anecdotal experience, anyone who leaves RM or Z and who later wishes to return, may find it a very costly experience. I am looking forward to January.

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    1. Rivero
      October 21, 2014 at 13:35

      Nice even handed assessment.

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  19. CP
    October 21, 2014 at 13:39

    So AM members aren't 'really bothered' that the rules have been changed without their consultation? … Two rules have been changed before the off and nobody cares? I thought AM was all about giving power back to its members? … As usual, the power stays at the top despite what the people are told – this latest move by AM is just history repeating itself.

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    1. Williesqa
      October 21, 2014 at 14:15

      How do you know no one was consulted? Do you work there?!
      I've had wind of this possibility for months as its a totally different market with different portal politics.
      They have clearly listened to what their letting members need and that is power in itself. For every negative comment, there are tons more agents signing up to AM, some choosing to use this other portal and some not. If your not supporting it, then go empty the piggy bank and wait for the next 5 years of price hikes from the RM mothership. Paul H is correct, no one is bothered! Next…

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      1. Rivero
        October 21, 2014 at 14:31

        Have you ditched Rightmove then Williesqa?

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    2. wilko
      October 21, 2014 at 14:24

      Sorry to really really disappoint you but NO – AM members WONT be bothered by this. They wont be leaving in their thousands…..Most who have signed up trust what the hierarchy are doing….contrary to what you might think we have signed up to an idea. Do you think that easychris' merry band of crowd funders are consulted about everything they want to do? NO they put up their £million and hope that the faith they put in Chris and his team will pay dividends to them…Quite frankly, I'm glad I invested (at his stage) in OTM rather than easyproperty!

      Report
  20. RealAgent
    October 21, 2014 at 14:55

    I'm not sure how big of a deal this really is. I suspect that given that all of the AM/OTM targets were only ever based on the "disruption" to Zoopla and Rightmove, I suspect there was always going to be latitude for other secondary sites. What AM couldn't have done though, in anyway except implication, was say that members had to choose between R or Z and only stay with one of them because that would have run them foul of anti competition rules. The reality is the success of OTM relies on that choice and that choice alone.

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  21. CP
    October 21, 2014 at 15:33

    wilko you say – Sorry to really really disappoint you but NO – AM members WONT be bothered by this – yet markpne on this threads says "This is a disgrace changing the rules all ready and i am a gold member" … this just goes to show yet again how blinkered AM devotees are to anything other than their own views … You confuse posters like me as wanting OTM to fail when in reality I just think it is a seriously flawed anti-competitive business model which has been based solely on attacking RM/Z .. I don't want it to fail, I just think it will.

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    1. Williesqa
      October 21, 2014 at 15:57

      Lets ask Markpne if he is a Gold Scottish member?
      Smoke and mirrors.

      Report
      1. GPL
        October 21, 2014 at 23:15

        Hello, I am a Scottish Gold Member and here's my opinion….I am happy to let Agents Mutual breathe, grow and expand…. 5 years commitment as I DO NOT accept that estate agents should just sit and be milked every single year and blatantly have RM etc engage in practices to play agents against other agents…. yes, the AM members are enthusiastic however we have every right to be as the alternative is to get financially kicked by the Big 2 Portals?…. and, so far the actions of my company and others have allowed AM to evolve and provide some genuine competition to RM etc… I have already seen changes from RM etc because there is a New Portal arriving soon…. so by all means make your choice of your portal and if it is RM etc just pause for a nanosecond and consider that you may be getting a better deal/service because I and many others supported the introduction of a genuine competitor which meant the "shafting" of estate agents became a little bit more difficult…. and while you pay your fees to RM etc you have a look at those massive share deals/incentives that their Directors are enjoying and consider that they are enjoying the fruits of your labour!

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  22. Beano
    October 21, 2014 at 16:10

    I am a staunch supporter of the concept of OTM. It amazes me the amount of negativity surrounding it that is displayed on sites like this, seemingly by people in the industry. I must surely be wrong though?, are the IP addresses all perchance located around the Milton Keynes area. Did R/Z have meetings and encourage their agents to log in to sites to post pro rm/z comments?

    Report
    1. Rivero
      October 21, 2014 at 16:17

      What exactly do you find so amazing about it?

      Report
    2. truthbetold
      October 21, 2014 at 16:44

      Not negativity Beano, business sense. Better the devil you know…

      Report
      1. GPL
        October 21, 2014 at 23:18

        truthbetold? really?…..business sense?….. I'll kick back and await your wise words…. I'm listening…..

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  23. Tuf Luv
    October 21, 2014 at 16:27

    I’m just going to say it, its not ok but I don't remember driving into the town from footloose so let a guy dance. Dude, maybe the decision was made on the fly but it hardly stinks up the joint so I’m cool waiting for AM to find its mojo; and yes I here you, there’s valid points being made but unless its tattooed on the small of your back then we’re just jawing. I’m not trying to be a d*uche but I’m not trying to be RM & Zoopla’s geisha b*tch boy either; tired of them holding my johnson and telling me when to cough so better I just double down and keep the faith.

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  24. Ric
    October 21, 2014 at 16:29

    #otm2015 exciting times ahead STILL….!

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  25. Rivero
    October 21, 2014 at 16:30

    Incidentally BNP Paribas have today issued an addendum to their recent report. In reference to AM's rule change they wrote: "We see this development as a positive for the incumbent portals and raises questions over the enforceability of Agents Mutual's 'one other portal rule' – one of the key challenges for Agents Mutual in our view. Furthermore, we understand from Agent contacts, that a lack of consultation by Agents Mutual with Gold members over the changes may raise internal concerns."…"Reiterate outperfrom rating on Rightmove and neutral rating on Zoopla"…I suppose you think they are all Z * RM reps also?!

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    1. wilko
      October 21, 2014 at 16:48

      "…I suppose you think they are all Z * RM reps also?!"…Well they certainly aren't knowledgeable estate agents…..otherwise they wouldn't be saying that. There were absolutely loads of financial experts that recommended Zoopla as a "buy" when they launched…….then they went DOWN from 275 to 200!!!!! Brilliant advice.

      Report
      1. Rivero
        October 22, 2014 at 09:13

        "Well they certainly aren't knowledgeable estate agents…..otherwise they wouldn't be saying that" Well I'm saying something very similar with over 10 market leading offices.

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    2. GPL
      October 21, 2014 at 23:35

      I love the fact that you spend so much time comparing a Portal which hasn't arrived yet with established portals.
      Valuations/Appraisals in your office/s must be interesting as you consider the merits of selling the property that you haven't gone out to yet and don't have on your books?
      Ah, yes…. "Good Afternoon Mrs Homeseller, I'm Crystal Ball from Crystal Ball Estate Agents"…..
      As a Scottish Gold Member confirmed as one of the first to actually get on board with AM what's my concern?….. to see where OnTheMarket is a year after launch!…. if I am to become a Forensic Estate Agent and pick over AM then I better allocate a monster amount of time to pick thru Wrongmove, Zippy & Co!
      The outstanding point in many of the posts here and elsewhere is the IMMENSE RIPPLE which Agents Mutual has caused…. that tells its own story!….. there's a New Portal…. and like the ones before it I will make my judgement a year from now…. and it's satisfying to know that I believed it could offer better and invested to help it breathe & grow whilst the big portal killers try to kill any potential competition that will hurt their juicy crop of ever increasing members fees harvested every month, every year.

      Report
    3. GPL
      October 21, 2014 at 23:38

      Rivero . See my comment after wilko's….. "lack of consultation with Gold Members…. blah, blah, blaaaah".

      Report
      1. JAM01
        October 22, 2014 at 05:39

        This isn't about nit-picking the finer points. This is THE fundamental point. AM/OTM was set up to break the stranglehold on independent agents by the big two portals, RM & Z. The fundamental restrictions in joining were to be a traditional high street agency and to adopt a 'one other portal' rule, to break this stranglehold. No, the 'one other portal' has been waived and if others now keep listing with OTM, RM AND Z, then the main aim will not be achieved, just an additional portal expense (that of OTM) for independents.

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      2. Rivero
        October 22, 2014 at 09:09

        I've read it, but I literally do not have any idea what you're talking about.

        Report
        1. GPL
          October 24, 2014 at 01:52

          Good, we can move on then…. no point wasting time.

          Report
  26. PeeBee
    October 22, 2014 at 09:52

    Congratulations, EYE – your story and its' responses are being quoted on THE OTHER "news" site!

    Speaks volumes… ;o)

    Report
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