How’s this for marketing? Paul Smith (see his column above) doesn’t mention his firm’s uncharacteristic purple moment, but after being spotted in a newspaper advert for the haart branch in Lincoln, we asked about it and it turns out to be a new company-wide campaign for haart.
Haart is offering a special deal on its fees to vendors who have paid money upfront to an online agent but whose homes have not sold.
“Instruct us instead and when we sell your home, this voucher entitles you to a refund of half the fee you paid them,” it promises, up to a limit of £500.
Clever.
We asked Smith to expand, and he told us his branches are “fed up with resolving issues involving internet agents” which is why the new campaign spells out that online agents are “a false economy”.
He told EYE: “Every branch has numerous examples of picking up the pieces where internet agencies are involved, particularly where there’s a complicated chain. Many agencies take their money upfront and run, leaving us to sort out the mess.
“We needed to find a way to convey this to prospective sellers without it sounding like sour grapes – after all, they feel they are getting a good deal and saving money.
“But when they discover their house was under-valued in many cases and the internet agent has no local knowledge and can’t help them find a buyer, they’re left sorely disappointed – and often without any sale to show for it.”
He said: “We’re already getting an amazing response to our campaign, with so many horror stories.
“People don’t like to hand over money without anything to show for it and with our no sale, no fee guarantee, they are starting to recognise that in a quiet market, they need an agent who is going to really work for their money.
“It’s time that we, as an industry, helped people understand that things aren’t always what they seem in the internet world.
“You get what you pay for.”
Great idea but I struggle with the use of the word ‘agent’; passive intermediaries and portal listers who are not fulfilling the case law defined duties of agency should not be referred to as ‘agents’
Even with my dyslexic grasp of grammar and spelling I can report or make stuff up, write it down and publish what I have written, that doesn’t make me a journalist so how come people who simply list property on the internet are allowed to claim to be estate agents?
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Punters assume that estate agents are all qualified and trustworthy, which is why being offered ridiculous savings is so attractive to those who don’t have the money to spare – because they don’t know the person they are saving money with is actually no more qualified than they are! They believe a company with the same experience as their high-street agent has found a way to save them thousands of pounds – who wouldn’t love that?
However, until the people running online models are actually as experienced as the high street bloke who has been doing it for thirty years, it simply cannot overtake the traditional model… …. … can it?
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This is why they should not be allowed to be called estate agents let alone claiming any sort of qualification, expertise or local knowledge.
It isn’t for us to judge how people spend or perceive they save money, we can’t actually claim to care people are losing out, all we can do is protest at the false claims and illegal practices employed to hoodwink vendors, highlight collusion and insist regulators regulate in a fair and even-handed way.
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I love all your dislikes on this Robert. How dare you stand for consumers! 🙂
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It’s to be expected; there are people who genuinely think being called an expert means somehow someone has sprinkled fairy dust, waved a magic wand and hey presto they have a working knowledge of and are local to 120 distinct selling areas that would ordinarily take a good negotiator 12 months to master.
The sort of person that fools themselves into thinking the truth won’t out isn’t capable of debate so ******* the dislike button is all they’ve got
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Well done Haarts. Its a shame you have to do what Rightmove, NAEA etc wont and defend real estate agency.
I still cant see how they are calling themselves ‘local’ (which is obviously what sellers really want) and they are based 70 miles away.
Where is watchdog, which etc… they seem scared to question this new upfront industry which is trading on honest agents…that is the problem though…we are not seen as honest because again naea, rightmove etc asleep at the wheel and doing nothing for their money
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Oh Dear,
Pains me as it does to say this.
Well done Mr Smith.
I have only lost one property to PB this year. But one is too many!
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This is really good.
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Like the advert. A good spin.
i find the article very disingenuous that’s from an agency that all but behaves like an online agent .
in my region haart are the biggest criminals of fake listings. Coming soon properties. Doubling up ads etc.
they also had a cold call from their call centre once.
so Mr smith. The question I pose is
is purple the only similarity?
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Before we get onto the potentially defamous accusation of criminal activity, who had a cold call from their call centre?
Now then I’m not sure what you want to call all these fake listings, coming soon properties. doubling up ads etc but have you got any examples? Have you reported Haart to the Rightmove data analysis team or are you just sat there doing nowt but whinging?
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know; heads gone!
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Bobby.
The short answer YES.
I got call from their call centre last August a few times. Inviting me to value my home. Lets be straight I welcome the spirit of the call but im just making the point, having a call centre its a similar practice to non high street intermediaries.
Re: the portal juggling. I have reported it several times to Rightmove and Haart. Nothing has ever happened other than the standard reply “data quality are looking at it”.
Whilst they where trying to grow their lettings business 4- 5 years ago the practise was so rife I estimate over 80% of their stock wasn’t real.. I hypothesise Haart pioneered many dubious practises we see today.
The practice is so mainstream I would image there is plenty of examples to look at.
I have made this point previously, So before you start trying and trying to sound clever, (calling me a whinger), maybe you should read more than you type and think.
completely off your meds again.
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Hang on Emoann, why did refer to yourself as they? that’s a bit odd almost like you’re seeing yourself from outside.
I’m calling offside on you using the phrase portal juggling, I was careful not to offend your repeatedly expressed concern over the phrase but you just slipped into it as if it’s now an accepted part of your vocabulary.
Perhaps you’re not a whinger but you do have a reputation for posting snidey little posts that are devoid of any real content but always seem to be complaining about someone (usually me) or something.
When portal juggling was investigated and documented this time last year the practice was described as a learned process rather than an invented one. It doesn’t matter what its is called, who invented it or whether the lid has come off a Pandora’s box of wrong-doing, for every honest and decent agent who is just getting on doing an honest and professional job for clients it is good that NTSEAT have now handed down the ability for those decent agents to bypass the portals’ data quality teams and report illegal mal-practice directly to local trading standards officers who will be obliged to act on a practice that has been identified and it’s harm understood.
Thinking about it, despite your very obvious low opinion of the people who have put time and effort into this, in spite of constant derision from people like you, people like you now can now actually benefit from what has been achieved. Just so you’re clear, policing the manipulation of listings and making false claims of performance based on manipulated listing is now something outside the control of the portals or the trade associations who have had no care, concern about this until now.
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Bobby, I will happily discuss portal juggling ( trying to be helpful using yours, and sadly now, mainstream name for it) with you on another forum, but im not following you down a side alley in relation to this story.
My experience is Haart are as bad as anyone at gaming the system. I find his comment that his branches are “fed up with revolving issues involving internet agents” when his own agency pioneers the practise that makes them effective quite absurd.
Finally, if my pragmatism is interpreted as constant derision then then your heads gone.
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You can comfort yourself with whatever big words you like, you come across as a meany-mouthed malcontent who is now a little envious that something has been achieved by people you have been pragmatically rude to on more than one occasion.
You now have a solution to your problems with Haart, put some concerted effort into recording what you allege Paul Smith and Haart are up to and then make representation to your local trading standards office. If they fail to act come back and tell us what you evidenced and why they didn’t do anything. The regulations are their to control all competition not just the ones you don’t like.
Bleating on and reinforcing your disdain for Paul Smith, his alleged hypocrisy and the crimes of Haart won’t stop him or them, you have to do something with the solution NTSEAT have given you.
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Bobby.
All of your comments show you have an issue with me rather than my posts. Therefore what ever I say you will find issue with. On close examination you will not find the same attitude from me. Is it possible for one moment that rather than objectively considering my point it has been prejudice because
shows that masquerading behind your wonderful use of the English language, is a individual full of bitter sentiment to anyone with a plan, honest speaking opinion of their own.
In summary I cant debate this with you . You have totally lost it. I pity you….. Your heads gone.
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On close examination of what? you have 2 opinions; my head is gone and Paul Smith is the architect of criminal wrong-doing.
Do you mind if a question if you have 3rd opinion?
“All Estate agents should be legally obliged to buy any property unsold after 3 months at the initial price suggested by the agent”
Is that utter lunacy or the panacea to cure the national housing crisis.
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My opinion was that found the above article very disingenuous and asked Mr Paul Smith…. is the colour purple the only similarity Haart has with Purple bricks?
Try and keep up Private Pile.
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Are you two still at it?
Handbags at dawn… Get it over with…
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Private Pile?
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Genius.
And in order to qualify for reimbursement there’s no negotiating on our standard sole agency rate, better take a look at that price as well.
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You’ve hit the nail right on the head there – I doubt Haart will be offering 1% to would be Purple Bricks deserters.
I also can’t help wondering if they would be better off staying with Purple Bricks than moving to a bunch of spikey haired touts!
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Nothing new this has been happening for the last 12 months or more around my way, some agents even refund the whole fee at the point of listing. As always on here though if spicer do it, its seen as the most innovative thing since sliced bread.
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It is a nice bit of marketing in so far that it is making the most out of a situation. But does it not also mean that those sitting on the fence now have more of a reason to give online a go first; especially if Haart would normally be their 1st or 2nd choice.
It reminds me a little of a rather similar situation and rather tenuous link when, many years ago, we had a local agent offering fees of a few hundred quid for rather inflated asking prices. Not only did all his current vendors who signed up on much heavier fees get to hear about that, but we also sold a fair share of his stagnant stock on a multi agency agreement.
The moral of the story is the vendor will end up paying for Haarts offer, but the reward is likely to be worth it. He sells his property for a better price and the sale is perfectly executed through to completion at which point he pays a higher fee; and is happy to do so!
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Big flaw is that haart are limited to less portal outlets than the on-liners they are aiming to convince sellers to move from.
Maybe Mr Smith needs to re-assess what exactly they can offer online only sellers moving to lone agent Haart’s outlets.
Mr Smith – you need to up your game. The OTM one other rule is a definite flaw.
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‘Big flaw is that haart are limited to less portal outlets than the on-liners…’
OH… GIVE IT UP WILL YOU!
They are NOT limited to ‘internet-only’ marketing as the Call-Centre Agents are.
Cutting and pasting from a thread here on EYE less than a month ago, where I said:
“I have a catalogue of dozens – probably runs into the hundreds and maybe even thousands – of saved quotations from you going back several years along the lines that the portals are NOT the be-all and end-all of property marketing; that by coming off them they will no worse off – you have been positively advocating it for years.”
To quote your own words in how you have previously advised marketing should be done:
‘…most buyers looking are already with agents selling. Take or delay listings appearing on main portals. Even by 7-10 days and public would have to search first listers.’
At first, I thought your words in the above post were empty.
On second thoughts – they must weigh a ton hanging around your neck.
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Trevor, you have just been slam dunked by the comment police.
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To add to Peewee’s comment above, in some ways the paranoia over PB and their ilk ( PBATI) is more to do with their ad spend than their offering, there was a time that the cheap fee merchants had a model which went along the lines of ” SELL YOUR HOUSE FOR £899″ with the intention of covering costs there and making money from proc fee’s on mortgages and other intro fees, worked in a heaving market with lots of transactions, then transactions dried up and lenders proc fee payments dropped like a stone in value and number so they reverted to traditional agency. This meant that those of us going up against them were, on the face of it, asking 2.25% vis a vis £899 and both models had no sale no fee, physical offices, negotiators and managers, sales co-ordinators, press presence, 7 day opening etc PBATI want money up front, no physical presence, diluted skillset due to the sheer size of the LPE area, it’s really not hard if you get the opportunity to fight them off the problem is where you don’t get that opportunity and their flag goes up because somebody likes those two tw**ts on the telly…
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Can someone answer this ……. those that have paid up front are not likely to move while within their contract period and if they haven’t sold when it expires, often realise their mistake and jump ship to a High Street agent anyway?
So is Haart after those that have just signed up, in the short term or long term agreements? Seems to me they are after the former on a multi-agency. Otherwise will not all on-liners who have not sold vendors jump to Haart and get half their money back and there is more to this than meets the eye ….. note the *.
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I think Haart are after everything and anything that they can get just like the rest of us, although statistically there will likely be more units in all our areas than there were 10yrs ago it sure doesn’t feel or look like it, there is probably a model that makes sense that looks like
Published sole agency rate 1.5%
Actual after negotiation/competition 1%
average sale price 200,000
at 1.5% 3000
at actual 2000
Hit all PBATI for multi at published rate with the incentive that up front costs paid will be reimbursed on completion
V sells through PBATI c’est la vie we had a chance
V sells through us it’s what we would of got anyway
Profit through better board presence, dependant sales, compete with PBATI for referrals, general market share……
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Bobby
take a look at my third comment on this matter. Take a look again and give me your comments please.
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The gaming of portals to manipulate statistics and using the portals as a surrogate mailing system is one matter, dealing with the nightmare of chains involving the fall out of list it and leave it alone listing reps is another.
Most estate agents would be frustrated dealing with supposedly complete chains that are nothing more than wishful thinking.
For what it’s worth Haart haven’t appeared on the radar of agents who are manipulating their listings to quite the extent the non-geopgraphic agencies are. Now you have suggested they are, an indication of an outcode allows a fairly thorough check to be made by both manual and automated detection systems. If Haart are gaming it will be recorded and added to the file of stuff the portals claim not to be able to identify.
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Thansk Bobby. you have given that considerable thought as requested.
For your next task I would like you to stand on one one leg please.
Owned,….
.
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OWNED??
Are you nine years old by any chance?
That would explain most things…
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Lmao PeePee
i can make your blood boil or your fingers tap. What ever, and whenever I like.
its because I don’t care.
Have a great weekend X
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Not really I demonstrated to people that despite your rudeness, petulance, lack of respect or any other redeeming characteristic I was polite enough to respond, you simply provided me with an opportunity to demonstrate decency.
You say you don’t care, but the envy you have displayed this week suggests otherwise; people you have no respect for have achieved something all your cynicism, moaning and protesting has failed to do; improve the industry. You are jealous of the fact that Peebee does care, you are envious that Chris Wood has determination and influence to see standards raised in the industry but the funniest thing is you are annoyed that a Twitter hashtag became an industry phrase.
Given your narcissism you will be very pleased to learn the only person you’ve owned is yourself.
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Been doing this since Dec 2015, We have found the following works best..
1st we have found it only works with those that actually paid up front the ones that have deferred, tend to want to go Multi-Agent with the online agent still in place. We don’t do multi so walk away. Often to then see a competitor’s board appear a week later having destroyed the confidence in the online agent.
We talk about chain issues, number of local buyers we work with, show them out diary to prove how busy we are and finally so them our sold market share in their general postcode.
We explain the structure of our business, how big our local team is and explain the support we offer all the way to the end.
Unfortunately these deferrers take the view I have paid for it so I will keep it, but if you sell it I will pay you as well.
The ones who have paid upfront however we have great success with the following
Full Credit of whatever they have paid the online agent against our final bill (They evidence it, lowest I think was £199 highest has been about £1200), in exchange for them taking down the online agents advert and going sole agency with us. With the agreement we will use some simple KPI’s to make sure the price is right. Often it is wrong, too high but on day one we take a lets bring you across at current price and review in 3 weeks.
We then market it and 46% of the time go on to sell it.
Taking into account the discount and ultimate success rate.. Its a thin thin margin, but I will do anything to keep onliners from gaining a strong foothold in the local market. I just wish my peers would do the same. It also helps with board coverage and positive success stories..
We have had X customer come to us and thats after they paid upfront and then we sold in Y.. So helps any future appraisal’s where your up against them. We obliviously do not mention the incentive to bring them across.
PB in particular is starting to have better board coverage and market share than some of the smaller players in our local area.
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Lots of typos, sorry peeps late and had a few drinks to relax!
The line should read The ones who have not paid upfront however we have great success with the following
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The bottom line is the High Street agent needs to educate the potential vendor before any on-liner gets the interest. Its not good sitting back and waiting for someone to walk into your shop. The public due to current on-liners TV campaigns is that you are no different but extremely expensive and they can do the same job for a lot less. TV is an extremely powerful tool that unless you can raise crowd funding are never going to compete with.
It does not matter who is best, on these pages. It is the public you need to communicate with and convince. If you are loosing business to on-liners take a hard look in the mirror and say to yourself, have I really planned and thought through what I need to do and importantly actually done it? Your marketing in your area is the golden egg ……. reputation & image and not necessarily all within estate agency, which some agents have recognised put the cherry on the cake for them.
Your Image, image, image, image ……………………
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There is a good tool for High Street agents to retain their success, with so many direct and indirect advantages that will assist in protecting their business and the High Street vocation …….. but sadly missed opportunity by so many.
Many who either do not understand it effectiveness or hell bent on prejudice want to see it fail, (some of the anti-brigade often contradict themselves or alternative motives with other business interests, hiding behind red herrings). The power it really has for them is a missed opportunity until everyone unites behind it. As it is many of those who are anti and who are High Street agents are helping the industry decline and they themselves may very well realise they are on the receiving end before it is too late!
If the day arrives when everyone wakes up, the High Street agents will be back in control of their future, sadly not before.
OTM and no other outlet. Your choice where you advertise, the public will be more than happy to use it, particularly if that is where all the only real, estate agents advertise.
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Not only is this clever but it is also a pioneer move from Mr Smith. Forget all the gamesmanship, jealous sniping, OTM comments and accept that Monday morning you will be in your branch or requesting a management conference call to do a very similar campaign under your own branding.
Well played Mr Smith
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I do hope you are right. However it doesn’t fix the problem, everyone is still swimming around allowing the sharks to take bites. You need to get out of the water where they can’t swim!
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This will only work in certain areas – those that have been affected by the online agents. Where I am we’ve not had any issues with PB or online agents so can’t see this working where I am.
Decent piece of advertising for once, I worked at Haart for 5 years and always found their advertising to be a bit cheesy.
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