Just puppets in the portal war?
Our reliance as an industry on property portals risks us becoming little more than puppets in our quest to attract online visitors.
The portals continually tug our strings by raising their fees, leaving us with little option but to dance to their merry tune.
And we’ve all gone along with it, handing over the primary responsibility for web leads, traffic and our inventory, making them stronger in the process – and us all the poorer. Every time they raise their fees, our profits dwindle as they drive up returns for their shareholders.
Trust me, their model is to continue to charge more for their membership fees and display products. But I say ‘no more’. If they keep tugging our strings, those strings will snap, leaving us like a heap of broken marionettes.
It’s no secret that Spicerhaart are members of OnTheMarket.com and our second portal of choice is Rightmove.
There’s a reason we’re part of an agents-owned site – one which is gaining in recognition and traffic with almost 20m visitors since launch and more than 5,000 members.
That’s so we can control our own future, without extortionate fee increases tipping everyone over the edge.
As the property website of Agents’ Mutual, agents using OnTheMarket.com have the opportunity to fix fees until 2020, ending any uncertainty. It’s important we have this choice – and don’t leave portal supremacy in too few hands.
The estate agency industry is in turmoil, with increased competition – both on our high streets and online; everyone is fighting for a share of the same markets. If we keep handing the power to the portals, we’ll only make them stronger. Just like we’ve all done with Amazon and Google.
Look back a decade and see how much has changed and how much our online costs have gone up. Now look forward a decade and what do you see?
If we all carry on with our portal strategy, they will keep taking our profits away. I therefore urge everyone to think about their long-term online and portal strategies.
Otherwise, maybe the portals will be the ones selling houses, not us.
As puppets, we’ll have crippled ourselves; and we’ll only have ourselves to blame.
Setting new standards in estate agency
Starting up as an estate agent is relatively easy. That’s why the market has become saturated with agents going it alone or starting out in the current climate.
But with new consumer protection legislation coming into force in the autumn, how many estate agents are aware of their responsibilities when it comes to meeting Trading Standards requirements?
A new government-funded website – businesscompanion.info – has been set up by trading standards experts to help raise awareness.
Without exams or licensing to keep a check on our profession, which I’ve long called for, the very least that new entrants can do is to read up on their responsibilities.
Moving forward with the times
One thing that can be said for increased competition is that it keeps you on your toes. Not only do we all constantly have to invest in new technology and websites, we have to keep our brands fresh and our advertising interesting.
Yet I look around at some of the corporates and see some of the same old brands with outdated images that haven’t changed for 20 years.
With local independents getting their act together and upping their game, alongside new firms coming into the market, there’s a lot more quality marketing and engagement online. Isn’t it time for some of the bigger companies to spend some money and keep up with the competition?
There’s no point in being an oil tanker in a sea of speedboats. You need to be able to turn quickly and go with the tide. Otherwise you run the risk of being left high and dry.
Stop harping on about the same old rubbish. It’s starting to get old and boring, a little bit like spicer hart actually. If you think it’s that bad, pull out of Rightmove already. I actually don’t think it’s bad value for money considering the kind of coverage it offers and i’m sure it’s not hurting your profit margins too much with what you charge you clients.
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I just cant take anyone seriously who ends a sentence with ‘already’. Are you American? or under 25 perhaps? As much as I dont like Haart on the ground, this guy clearly knows his stuff and puts it forward in the written English I understand.
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What’s wrong with being a 25 year old American?
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Im not sure my question implied there was anything wrong with it, just that I prefer to read good English in England. My reference to being under 25 again refered to the proliferation of poor English, seemingly adopted by the younger generation, perhaps as a result of technology making them lazy. Certainly CV’s of today seem far more entertaining when looking for errors than I recall they did many years ago!
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You talk about being in a sea of speedboats , 3/4 of that sea hasn’t gone with agents mutual. I would suggest you talk to the captain of your tanker
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How much are you spending on classified advertising know v say, 07/08 when the local press and other print mediums were still relatively strong? And how does that cost per thousand reached compare these days. Correct me if I’m wrong – and the data I’ve seen suggests I’m not- you can reach a wider audience with greater transparency for less money these days. Further house prices continue to rise as – and this is an assumption – do your commissions. Costs down and revenues up seems a good result. More than happy to stand corrected on this if that’s not the case. Also, OTM rates seem to focus on cost, not value. They should be fighting a cost per converting lead battle, they’ll never win the uu audience fight with fixed costs therefore limited ad budgets. They need to be the smartest and most effective, not the biggest.
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You’ve missed the point. The ever ‘increasing’ cost; I dont recall newsprint price inflation in 5 years being as high as 1 year with portals.
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You know those naysayers, those people who do nothing but whinge and moan you were on about a while back? It turns out they weren’t doing nothing!
There is actually a place for someone like you on this side of the fence, that isn’t a job offer but a comment to make you consider the whole landscape of how all of this is likely to play out.
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Robert im genuinely interested in how it all plays out. I have many theories based on different sides I’ve sat of numerous fences – but on one – over the last few years!
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Re fences should be ‘ But not on one’ Thumbs like sledgehammers.
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You are very well placed to influence change rather than just watch it.
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Happy to influence in any constructive way I can.
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Now, not know.
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Pah that’s nothing! I only just caught a ‘yous’ the other day (use)!! 😳
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nextchapter & danny…Ship Ahoy!… I see thru my Agents Mutual binoculars that you are the flotsam & jetsam floating by in portal waters… you’ve been flushed away as debris.
Let’s hope we can move away from the bobbing about in the water comments soon or this thread will turn into an episode of Captain Pugwash!…. and I know you both want to be cast as either Master Bates or Seaman Staines.
I’m on holiday so forgive my hearty humour Shipmates!
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Paul – you are running a large organisation employing many thousands of people. Despite this, you do not see that your actions at best will create a third portal for us mugs to stump up for, and at worst will create a monopoly situation.
GPL’s rantings are very endearing but just reinforce the weak-thinking and lack of strategy behind this.
You will pay a heavy price for this and I just hope that the 75% of the industry who have stuck away from this hair-brained scheme will continue to do so.
You will be thoroughly embarrassed when it becomes clear that your mass-market brand has subsidised and supported the development of a niche, top end, London centric portal.
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Oh, and another pattern that I have detected from the chats I’m having is that Gold members, who have invested £*** thousand in this scheme, are being very positive about things. “Its growing every week” blah blah blah, when they know (because their staff are leaving/being very open about the lack of performance) the thing is a disaster.
What they are doing is very clear – protecting their investment. If they can get other mugs to pile in, they have more chance of getting their cash back.
Speak to those who have not invested and you get a very different story “I’m just waiting for my contract to run down, and then I’m off”. Interestingly, not necessarily going back to their other portal, but most certainly dumping this thing as soon as possible.
There’s a name for this: a Ponzi scheme. Berni Madoff went to prison for the same thing.
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The guy who sets up an agency and expects to be the market leader in six months is a fool. The same applies to On The Market. The new kid on the block has been no better or worse than Zoopla which had some significant head start.
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Eh?! No better or worse than Zoopla? That statement is 50% correct. How can you say it is better than Zoopla? If your answer is ‘the aim of OTM is better than Zoopla’s’, come back and talk to me when it delivers any kind of value.
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HarryN……You said ” from the chats I’m having is that Gold members, who have invested £*** thousand in this scheme,” and
” protecting their investment. If they can get other mugs to pile in, they have more chance of getting their cash back.”
Quite frankly I don’t believe you have had any chats with gold members about their “investment” in OTM-otherwise you would understand how the Mutual was set up. Also how will “other mugs piling in” give members more chance of getting their cash back??
Yet again you show absolutely NO understanding of how Agents Mutual was set up or how it runs. Yet you consistently try to focus stories towards OTM and then make assumptions to fit your personal views. Assumptions that are totally wrong.
I respect the fact that you have an opinion but please, for all our sakes, stop posting totally untrue nonsense and try to rebuild an ounce of credibility for yourself.
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Hi Wilko. Can you tell me what is untrue about the following:
– Agents Mutual was conceived by the top end agents – most of whom were involved in the setting up of Primelocation
– The management team at OTM are made up mainly of ex-Primelocation staff
– Many thousands of pounds have been spent in the London evening standard, broadsheet newspapers (all of which have a disproportionate London/South East audience)
– The London Philharmonic Orchestra provided the soundtrack for the OTM TV ad
– OTM has a very small, single digit audience compared to either Rightmove or Zoopla
– Rightmove’s share price has increased from £21.55 to £34.10 since the launch of Agents Mutual
– 3 years ago agents were venting concerns that Rightmove was getting too strong and if they were not careful they would be beholden to a monopoly
– Agents Mutual have been very clear that OTM will not have the features and functionality of Rightmove and/or Zoopla, thereby consciously making OTM a weaker proposition than either of the established portals
– because most agents have left Zoopla, OTM is just a weaker subset of the content available on Rightmove (primarily) on a website with less tools for consumers
– 75% of the UK’s agents have signed up to OTM, and OTM’s recruitment is materially behind where it needs to be to get anywhere near their publicly stated targets. 0% of the country’s housebuilders and 0% of virtual agents are listing, further weakening the value to consumers of OTM.
– there os 0% chance of OTM being the second portal in the UK by January 2016, 17 or 18 based on current growth, thereby consigning their members to pain (to varying degrees)
– at similar costs to Zoopla, but with a tiny fraction of the response/traffic, OTM offers terrible value for its members, and by extension the end customers they serve
I could go on… Fact based, truthful responses are genuinely welcomed…
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Like I said, these are your opinions and you are entitled to them. If existing members felt strongly enough about these issues then the whole project would have fallen by the wayside. It would seem members are satisfied at present and getting leads from OTM and their other chosen portal.
I cant stand Tottenham hotspur, but I don’t tell their supporters not to support them.
You haven’t answered my comment at all though (as always)
So I’ll ask again;
HarryN……You said ” from the chats I’m having is that Gold members, who have invested £*** thousand in this scheme,” and
” protecting their investment. If they can get other mugs to pile in, they have more chance of getting their cash back.”
How will getting other mugs to pile in give them more chance of getting their cash back?
As you know so much tell me how AM works and how it was set up financially. From the comments you made you can’t -know otherwise you wouldn’t be so far off the mark.
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Wilko. As you have accused me of making untruthful statements (read: lies), I am happy that you have conceded all of my points but you are wrong to say they are opinions. They are facts.
A Ponzi scheme works by giving early members returns (in this case 10% annual interest) by encouraging further members into the scheme who have no chance of getting a return.
In the case of OTM, the lack of return comes in the form of no response. Any agent entering OTM now will get much reduced response to the benefit of existing, inveested Gold members who have a better chance of getting some of their money back.
That is fact, not opinion.
As with all Ponzi schemes, once new members dry up (which is happening to OTM), the original members become increasingly desperate in their attempts to hook new members in. If they are unsuccessful, the thing falls apart.
Let’s see what happens in the next few months wilko. Maybe at some point people like you will need to explain themselves. Or not of course…
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“In the case of OTM, the lack of return comes in the form of no response.”……so now you are saying NO leads are produced by OTM?
“the original members become increasingly desperate in their attempts to hook new members in”…..That isn’t FACT unless you have have an accredited crystal ball.
Why, at some point will I need to explain myself???? I decided to advertise our clients property on OTM and Rightmove and not 1 has complained…..and we’ve just completed our best financial year….ever.
And lastly, I can tell you what will happen in the next few months…….figures will keep getting spouted out by all 3 and the likes of you will continue to use every story to try and dis credit a not for profit site that advertises property………all because it doesn’t fit in with your views and plans. Simples.
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HarryN…. GPL rantings?… Nope!…. GPL rambling? On occasions…. oh yes! …. but lies?…. never!
Your rantings have so many holes in them you should be rebranded HarryGorgonzola!
Lucky you don’t have to prove there is any truth in your rantings because I suspect you would be taking the long walk down to the cells!
HarryN…. your next appearance?…..Alice in Wonderland!
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Did you read my comment or are you just collating selected words in your mind.
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Classic!
Their staff are leaving because there is a lack of performance and they have put this down to the portal they are on?! That’s the excuse the managers and owners might want to come up with to make themselves feel better about the staff leaving them, or the staff in question can’t sell and believe they need a portal to do it for them!
And that’s if and its a big if, any of this post is actually true!
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Brilliant, Spicerhaart talking about standards and whats best for the industry. Whats next Louise Woodward giving nannying tips?
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Ouch! (I had R4 that)
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Yes not exactly current, but makes a point!
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Sadly you’ve all missed Paul’s point. He is absolutely correct. Off the back of our years of local hard work and reputation building and our money, Rightmove and Zoopla have become powerful monsters that at the drop of a hat could destroy our industry, if they chose to go down the road of private seller sales. The public,now familiar with both brands,would be confident that either might be an on line route that would work. And all because we funded them (the portals) to get to where they are.
I suggest the industry takes a look beyond the bonnet and further down the road. We are at risk for the future.
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I must have missed the part in the story where they have pulled their properties off Rightmove…..
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Typhoon, I cannot disagree with any of your sentiment here, but strengthening Rightmove will not deliver the outcome you are looking for.
Sometimes you have to admit you’ve made a mistake and move on.
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Have you ever watched Independence Day? Think David Levinson!
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Parts of what Paul says is true being:
1. The estate agency industry is in turmoil
2. new consumer protection legislation coming into force in the autumn (and correct, most agents will not be aware of what the ‘Property Sales Guidance’ aligns to.
The big part that Paul Smith Gets wrong is supporting OTM is old tech based on the RMv3 schema that by design stops agents from better supporting one another.
Paul – you talk of new tech. Yet your betting on old tech that is the biggest agent restrain. The RMv3 schema by design runs in a single flow direction and is not multi-directional.
I can’t see the other big agents supporting OTM as most have an interest in the big two.
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Nice OTM plug. I hope PIE got paid well for the opportunity.
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As much as I am not a fan of Spicer, in this instance I do agree. I think there are a lot of people missing the point of OTM. – we control it. Rightmove was set up for exactly the same purpose – to protect our industry and keep control by the agents. since it floated and went over to the dark side, we no longer have any protection or control. Imagine if OTM had 10,000 members, we, as agents would have control over the flow of internet traffic and how much it costs us. surely this is a better option than our choices now? If you think OTM is not good enough – get on board and help it become better for your own sake.
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Nothing like hitting the nail on the head. OTM is NOT a threat to anyone apart from online agents and is there to SUPPORT agents against overcharging Wrongmove and Hoopla. It is agent owned and there to SUPPORT. I really don’t see what can be wrong with that, particularly if we can follow the NAR route and take control of the principle portal to the detriment of the other two. Who, apart from the online back bedroom boys, Wrongmove and Hoopla lose out? Certainly not the public.
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Thanks Newsboy. I really cant understand why people have such a problem with such a simple solution.
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I think the writer and the company connection is irrelevant here. What is said in this article has been said many times before. By saying we have to “stand up” to the power of the portals he is acknowledging that power.
This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that the major portals love as sub – consciously it makes us further believe they do have power and we can’t live without them.
In truth, any industry involved in sales has always relied on third party advertising which has changed (and will continue to change through time). It could be argued that advertising media has always, and will always, control all companies involved in sales…..so why “stand up to them?”
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I have a question.
Can any body tell me where my On The Market leads are?
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There is a multiple choice answer to this question:
a) You may not be a Member – in which case join to receive them. It works for EVERY Member I know…
b) If you ARE a Member – have you any properties actually listed? It’s possible that you haven’t ‘turned on’ OTM yet, you know…
c) If you ARE a Member, HAVE ‘turned on’ OTM at your end and they are showing as available – then speak to your OTM Account Manager and ask the question you ask here.
Hope this helps…
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People are having more of a dig at the fact that Paul from Haarts has made the comment not that his actual comments were correct. Whoever would have made that statement it’s still true. Agents have been moaning for years about portal costs. So one day agents have now decided to do something about it… 5000+ branches have decided to do something about it. People seem to fail to realise that OTM is a start up portal, it won’t get hundreds of leads a month to start off with as it’s still growing but what it will do is grow and grow to generate something long term Which agents control and keep costs to a minimum. I don’t understand why agents have beef with OTM they are trying to do something about the ever increasing fees of rightmove and the shoddy estimation values and **** leads from zoopla. Every day I read more and more statistical **** that hoooopla report and come on we all know it’s to tarnish what OTM are trying to do. Wake up and smell the coffee! Look at it this way it took rightmove 6 years to get to 6000 branches and the seventh year to gain another 12000 branches so they say (although they are split branches) but my point is OTM gained 5000+ branches in 10 months so there are agents that support the cause. When we joined, we left zoopla took a chance with OTM and knew for the first 12 month that RM would keep us a float 90% of the zoopla leads were rightmove leads anyway however we are now part of growing what could be our portal in the long run! All I’ll say is stop looking at the short term and think of the long term if your going to be in this business long enough! Support OTM I say we are getting some leads and good quality ones at that , I suggest people that are moaning saying they are not getting any leads why don’t you log into your back office myam from time to time and listen to the calls and view the emails… Just saying
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What a nice sensible comment. All I can think is that Hoopla and estuckathome have scribes in here as they can surely only be the ones against OTM.
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But your still on RM paying the fees…… Which begs the question, Why bother being on OTM?
People are not leaving RM – Are you going to be brave enough and leave RM first in your area?
And there is the problem, Agents hate RM but are afraid of not being on it as competitors will take your market share.
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Er, we cant leave RM as we would lose market share, so what do we do? I know! lets create our own portal, support it, help it grow, and when its big enough, say ta ta to RM.
Am I the only one who thinks this is really simple???
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Like lots of things sounds simple but in reality its not.
So who will be first to leave RM? You? braver than me!
You will always have agents looking for competitive advantage, There will always be agents who want to advertise on more than one portal as they can afford to and a £1000 per branch per month is good investment for them.
Are you going to come off RM even in say 5 years time (if OTM manages to grow) even if your main competitor does not? – I understand short term pain but losing market share is always difficult to regain.
How will you pitch on your vals when the public question why you are not on RM and your competitior is? – Dropping zoopla not an issue but you will get a lot of complaints if not on RM as its the one the public recognise the most and expect to be on
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I can’t help thinking its a massive mistake giving Smith this airtime. In truth he doesn’t really have much to say does he?
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Hear Hear!
Good bit of publicity for him and strokes his ego that his comments are actually worth something.
On a plus side gets the comments going, just need to mention Portals and the floodgates open!
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If nothing else, Pauls comments certainly seem to get the conversation going…
I cant say I agree with his digs at larger agents ‘upping their game’ as, to be honest, I’m quite happy to see their ‘game’ stay exactly where it is. Years ago (late 80’s early 90’s) we were all convinced that there would be 3 or 4 agents left in the UK. Halifax, Woolwich, GA and the PRU. What happened in reality was that a lot of lucky independent agents sold out and made a fortune but, in many cases , watched their businesses disintegrate left in the hands of those who knew not the first thing about EA. What then followed was the resurgence of independent Estate Agency across the country.
Currently, there is lots of quacking and squawking from many sections of our industry but one thing will remain constant. People not only want but demand service. Fail in that aspect of your business model and your in trouble.
In regards to Paul, I’m quite happy to see him being given air time and you cant fault his passion…he clearly still enjoys the ‘fight’ and whilst I don’t agree with all he says, or how he says it, it makes for lively debate that’s for sure!
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making….us all the poorer = making our shareholders all the poorer
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HarryN i have read with interest your comments above and could not agree more The ponzi analogy is spot on, i witnessed first hand the response from OTM like the emperors new clothes everyone can see it for what it is except those who are blind to all the AM hype we are not all mutual we fight for everything we have in a difficult market place where collaboration is frowned upon.
Mr Smith is in charge of one of the largest independent property companies a so called household name why does he need a third party to promote his business? Surely his own website must be well known enough to generate the business he needs?
Web portals are hear to stay from my perspective it is leads provided against cost and not purchasers or tenants they can easily find you if you have the product ( rember pre web portals did agents sell any less properties probably not they just had to work a little harder.
I’m with you Harry
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ladies & gentlemen…. let me introduce you to HarryN’s portal cousin…. new life
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Yeah – but what you omit from your post is that in some places it’s not just allowed for cousins to marry – it’s compulsory! ;o)
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MEANWHILE… down ‘the other pub’…
The grouchy git of a Landlord that has so far alienated all but the thickest-skinned of the old regulars – clearly liking his ‘clientele’ to be his own cronies who sup up HIS salty brand of kidney-filtered liquid – has proper gorn off on one because we’re all having fun here with our guest turn ‘The WordSmith’, and is standing at the (last chance) saloon door getting all shouty (credit: Jonnie) about how cr@p the turn in this local is – and then proceeds to jump on the karaoke and murder “I Will Survive” waaaay better than Domestos ever could make a germ cease to be.
Admittedly, he has gobbed off with passion and enthusiasm and probably feels proper pumped up as a result – but Harry Hedgehog climbing down off a scrubbing brush hasn’t got a good reason to light up a fag afterwards and ask “Was that good for you, darlin’?” – has he?
Of course it’s all to increase the footfall before the brewery pulls the plug and Last Orders are called for the final time – but I hope Ros doesn’t mind me recommending that you all REALLY should pop yer head through the door – you might catch the encore… the rumour is he’s gonna jump b0110ck-naked off the bar into a shot-glass of lit Lambrini.
Then back here for the Main Event – Russell Q and his Marketing Minion giving us a demonstration of the fine art of wrapping 5h!t in Christmas paper.
Should be mildly entertaining… if you’re into that sort of thing, that is…
Evening all! ;o)
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Thanks PeeBee, I consider that a fair plug, I shouldn’t be posting here do don’t tell anyone 🙂
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Mr Shinerock
I am sure you do not accept (…WILL NOT…, more like) that it is frankly embarrassing that you need to write a column on YOUR “Property News” website based around a column featured here on EYE, in order to gain reads and comments.
THAT ALONE speaks volumes for the power that you feel this publication has over your own – and I am delighted to see that you acknowledge that fact.
I am sure that Ros will forgive me – this time at least – as she has no worries whatsoever about us returning to our usual seats in the snug.
I see that in response to Glenn Ackroyd’s predictable fawning over your column you replied
“…I’m trying my best to suppress the ‘I told you so’ urge although I did tell them so 🙂 ”
and in Robert May’s subsequent post to you on the thread he states
“If AM keep sailing along behind Rightmove and Zoopla they will stay in 3rd place and you will be proven correct, there are people who will really hate that. (Peebee….errr well, come to think of it all of them)”
Well here’s the surprise of the century. I don’t give a shizzle about you having the opportunity presented to stick the tip of your thumb on the end of your schnozzle, wiggle your fingers and shout “Nurr Nurr Ne Nurr Nurrrr” at the top of your voice. If it happens – it happens.
BUT IT IS NOT a ‘given’ that the opportunity will become a reality.
And the biggest block in the way of that opportunity for you is currently made up of over 5000 individual parts all doing their bit to prove you wrong.
I’m there standing shoulder to shoulder with them – and I believe in ME far more than I will ever believe in YOU.
You continue to publish your nicely wrapped ******** and I will just keep popping holes in the Christmas paper to show people what ‘gift’ you are presenting them with.
Let’s see how this pans out – shall we?
Aren’t you the lucky one – you’ve got me for the next four-and-a-half years… ;o)
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There is a long long way to go in this battle Mr Shinerock. And has PeeBee has said your up against 5000 branches with thousands of members of staff between them all pushing http://www.OnTheMarket.com with gusto.
Hit rates are going up month on month, more and more people are using the site and all the while OTM have had no need whatsoever to deviate away from the ‘One other portal’ rule.
Personally I think your a long way off from any sort of victory jig.
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Paul H – I’ve just checked and, amazingy, your last line is almost an anagram of
“Yeah, whatever, sunshine – as mon ami PeeBee would say BRING IT ON”
Funny, that – innit? ;o)
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Great minds PeeBee 😉
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PeeBee?….I’ll have a pint of what you’re having as it clearly refreshes the parts that other don’t.
I’m seeing you in a Tommyesque Pinball Wizard Platform Boots sort of way at the head of our OTM Pinball Machine!…. and you wear it well!
I have returned from another short motorcycle trip in Wester Ross and as I rounded the Gairloch on The North West Coast of Scotland…. whadaya know…. I saw a White Tailed Eagle Flying Overhead…. fantastic!…. memo to self…. look out OTM Stickers for next visit and apply to Eagle for more OTM advertising…. never mind ringing their feet!
I’m enjoying PeeBee’s postings more than normal…. possibly because I am more relaxed with my Sh£temove and Roopla Free Holiday!
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Thanks, GPL – but I’m just flying the OTM flag.
Don’t forget I was a late starter…
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