A property website intended to offer a complete service to consumers is listing estate agents’ properties while also offering a private for sale by owner listing service.
There are 400 estate agents’ properties currently on the totallymoving site.
The private for sale by owner facility was added at the weekend, said the site’s founder Wayne Norcliffe, a chartered surveyor of Castle Surveyors in Dorset.
The estate agents’ properties are obtained from Zoopla, he said.
Norcliffe said he acknowledged that estate agents might not like the mix of private sales and their own listings on the same site, but said: “I don’t really care about agents – the site is designed for Joe Public.
“It is all about offering them more choice, more power and more information – the tools that they need to make a decision on how to buy and sell their home, with everything in the same place.
“The whole ethos of the site is that it is not for me to tell them what to do or how to do it. It is all about choice.
“Obviously, as a surveyor I do work with estate agents, but with respect to them, I don’t think they are looking ahead sufficiently and absorbing change.
“That said, I do think that there will be a place for local agents, because that is also giving consumers choice.”
He added that as the site builds, agents would be able to use it as a useful resource to find leads.
The site was launched in January, and Norcliffe said it now has 1,500 visitors a month and 2,000 followers.
“It is way ahead of where I expected it to be,” he said.
“Ultimately, I will become an online estate agent – but I am not there yet.”
The site includes features such as local area information, online valuations, and the ability to get free quotes from a range of businesses such as removals, solicitors, surveyors and tradespeople. There are also shopping discounts.
A link with netanagent allows sellers to get estate agents’ quotes.
There is a link with private sales site HouseWeb, as well as to totallymoving’s own for sale by owner facility.
The link to HouseWeb is purely an affiliate link, you can see in the URL, so if a person signs up with houseweb, tm make a few quid. quite a nice domain name though.
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Wayne Norcliffe – Castle Surveyors Limited. To clarify the quotes attributed to me. This website is created to provide consumers with choice and who can argue against that? Unfortunately there are some people working in our industry who believe that their interests are paramount, when in reality the client's are.
http://www.totallymoving.co.uk can be used by the public and/or estate agents, or indeed anyone else who chooses to do so. If every buyer registered on the site and every seller went their first to find a property, then it opens up the whole market. Estate Agents can contact potential clients and clients can choose to use them or not as the case may be. Ultimately, once all the review provisions are in place, the client chooses the best Agent or Supplier and makes a decision based upon the information they have. There's no need to fear choice in my view, we as suppliers should embrace it and ensure that our own business offer is the best it can be.
Whilst totallymoving is, on the face of it, a site for consumers. I truly believe it can benefit agents, solicitors, consumers and indeed anyone else who is making a property related decision. Over the next 5-10 years this kind of site and the offers we're about to launch will soon become the norm, anyone who doesn't believe that well I suggest that they look around because winter is coming on the olde fashioned Estate Agency model and we intend to have our coats buttoned up against the cold.
Regarding the quotes in this article, well suffice to say they sound worse in black and white than I'd have liked. But hey an off the cuff phone call, when you are waiting for your child to get off a coach, can sometimes lead to rash remarks. Apologies to any agent who may be offended by them.
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Frankly I really couldn't be bothered to read past the sentence which says its all about giving the consumer choice. Utter bo**ocks, it would be refreshing if someone launching an "industry changing" business actually had the decency to say that they are doing something they hope makes them money either now or if someone comes along to buy their company.
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RealAgent – speak your mind why don't you! Here you go, I'll confirm it for you. I hope the site makes me a shed load of money and whilst in the process of doing so saves those client's using it a shed load of money. Hope that clears that bit up! Business is about making money and if, as part of that I can help a few people along the way, then I don't apologize for it!
It's easy to be critical, suffice to say I'm a one made band working mostly on my own to create this vision, anyone can do likewise and therein lies the winter I refer to.
Regarding my talking like an Old English Monk (wasn't that how Richard Branson won his case?), well you seem to be the expert so I have no further comment in that regard.
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The first part of your reply was fine, we are all in business to make money, what winds me up however is when people like you try to pretend their business model is the industry equivalent of Robin Hood. You have seen a way to take money from all areas of the market and you don't really care about the consequences to either the seller who badly underestimates their property value or for the buyer who is buying without the back up of a third party involvement. So can we just do away with the guff and agree that you have a website that was aimed at letting agents advertise and just in case there is a sudden boom in sellers wishing to sell privately you've allowed them to the site as well. No next great thing in estate agency, no predictions of where the future lay for the industry. Just that. I truly wish you the best with it and hope you make a few quid but comparing yourself to Richard Branson, seriously!?
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Misunderstanding – I wasn't comparing myself to R Branson that's your interpretation. I was, in that regard, merely using the analogy of Never Mind the ********* album. Sorry you missed that bit, great album and my response was meant to be lighthearted.
Regarding what I'm doing, I don't apologize and yes I am trying to make a small amount of money at every turn. Why not!
Regarding public undervaluing their property, I'm not saying they should rely on my valuations, they can still get your experts to do that. If those experts are good at what they do, they'll convince the client to sell with them!
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I don't have a problem with the website but can you make it load within 3 minutes please? It is either very busy this morning after this article, the server is being upgraded or you have a script that is calling a service that is down/slow – Thanks
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seems to be ok now??
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"If every buyer registered on the site and every seller went their first to find a property, then it opens up the whole market." Now then boys and girls – can anyone point out the key word in that sentence?
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Pick a word… ANY word! ;o) Mine would be "their", Taff – such sloppy grammar proves if nothing else that he's a Chartered Surveyor!
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Sloppy Grammar, oouch that hurts coming from such an eloquent person as your good self.
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BTW – If anyone is interested in helping develop this site to become what I know it can become, then please feel free to get in touch. Estate Agent's looking to start/be involved with a national online presence particularly welcome, that's the next step!
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Anyone (especially a surveyor) should know allowing private sellers in where agents operate is like letting the vampires into the blood bank……simply – it makes those in the industry cross 🙂
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Terry
Point taken, but I suggest that's the point. Private sellers are already in the marketplace, they are called clients. It's their home and an agent merely helps them market and sell it, the choice on how they do that should be with them. Good agents should have nothing to fear from a more open and transparent marketplace. In any event, whether we fear change or embrace it, change is certainly coming.
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'' It's their home and an agent merely helps them market and sell it''
I see you share the same level of ignorance as most surveyors, probably why I doubt that we will ever here from you again.
Good Luck
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Arrogance??? Ignorance as most surveyors. Well suffice to say I don't know most of them, but I've trained and/or worked with a fair few over the years and I'm sure they would take issue with that comment. As for me, you're entitled to your opinion is my view.
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Wayne – private sellers aren't clients? Unless your offering them other services………… you say – the agent merely helps market??………surely its in the way agents do the marketing…………unless your due to run a big marketing run and bring more to agrnts – why would they use your site?……..to launch a portal and allow the 5% FSBO people in, commercially means you upset the 95% agent market who are then very unlikely to become your clients…………..Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind.
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Trevor – Thanks for the detail, I'm not intending to upset anyone agents in particular. Merely doing my thing and happy for agents to continue to do theirs. In respect of my "biting the hand that feeds me". I make a point of being independent and don't (as far as I recall) accept instructions from estate agents, that way I don't have to worry about biting hands.
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Another one-man band punter operating out of his bedroom who thinks he's found the magic formula. Lucky if he gets the crumbs the other 'online agents' leave behind for him ! And btw, Branson only got big with Virgin because he filled the vacuum Freddie Laker left behind when he went bust… As for inviting agents on to his site, is he having a laugh? When they are already on RM, Z and soon to be launched OTM? I don't think so.
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MarcH Have you been spying into my bedroom, how do you know what I do in there?? Naughty Naughty! BTW- Amazon was started in a garage by one Man, so if you think it can't be done again you're right, however if like me you think it can, then I am right. Believe in what you do, do it as well as you can and eventually it will happen. Oh, not for those out there who spend their time looking inward (or into people's bedrooms) of course.
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Great idea, I launched Cornwall property rentals last year with the same thoughts in mind. The industry is changing and needs to move with the times. Best of luck to you.
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And launching a website changes the industry does it?…. unbelievable.
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Thanks Cornwall, seems some others on here may well be jealous, shame they don't spend more time being positive and developing themselves rather than trying to knock those who are trying. Well done to you by the way, hope you continue to grow.
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Some genuine feedback: Not bad as a fresh start. Looks ok for what is obviously a budget startup.
Problem is there are countless sites like this that will never appear in peoples searches/radar. And if they do? I found it hard to work out what the site was offering me on first look….. So I would move swiftly on.
The site is trying to offer too much and the result will be you get little. I see the site draining your resources within a year and closed within 2. But as with any of these things I wish you luck.
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Beano – At last some constructive feedback. Points taken and I don't, necessarily disagree. However, what's on the site (apart from the buyer's register) is already out there and people are making good money. So whilst I agree, to an extent, about the design not being as good as it should/could be (I'm not a designer you see), I think growth this year to date (circa 30% month on month) shows it has legs and the cost of keeping it running is very low. I planned for at least 3 years to get going, so hopefully I'll at least get to that point before I fold 😉 Thanks again for the comments though.
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Good effort PeeBee but the key word was "If" a small word with massive implications. The truth is that NOT every buyer and NOT every buyer is going to go there first. Why would they? If I was the sole agent in my area, I'd be retired by now. See what I mean?
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Zoopla – I believe gets circa 30million hits a month. I remember when they, and indeed the giant that is now Rightmove started. They didn't get to where they are in the first 9 months (since launch) but took many years.
I was trying to clarify the objective of the site, i.e. buyers who are searching for properties register and tell sellers they are looking, sellers can then quickly find them and either deal directly or choose to do so via a Third Party. You may not have grasped the concept as it's the reverse of what happens now and I suspect is very scary for estate agents to imagine such a world, but why can't it happen??? I'm not so short-sighted to think it can't and believe it can and indeed already is. Watch this space.
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94.67% increase in visitors already today, thanks for the article Roz, much appreciated. Long may it continue. Month on month, since launch the site has grown tremendously and as soon as we start advertising, including Radio, we expect the site to generate a lot of public interest.
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Oh joy – daily visitors to your site have gone up from 50 to 97 – ALL of whom the increase can be attributed to are Estate Agents making sure that you haven't scraped their properties to fluff up your feathers. That equates to 0.1175 visitors per property… not ONE of them looking to buy or rent. Go on – make a radio jingle out of THAT gold nugget if you can…
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PeeBee
Seems your grasp of maths is not as good as you think it is, or are you using the 10% rule? Suffice to say, you are way off on the numbers.
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Oh, purleeeease – enlighten me as to where and how I have made the alleged mathematical boo-boo… I'm always keen to learn new tricks and the rules of percentages were set quite some time ago….
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Now at a 115% increase over yesterday, what does that equate to then? Percentages a proportion of a starting point you know, do you know what that starting point was then? Calculate away old boy, let me know the outcome. An abacus may well be more use you know.
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"seems some others on here may well be jealous, shame they don't spend more time being positive and developing themselves rather than trying to knock those who are trying." Oh, dear. We don't seem to be saying what you want to see, so that is your petulant response. Okay – I'll be positive, then, if that's what you want. I am absolutely, definitely, categorically and most emphatically positive that your venture is doomed to complete, utter failure. That better? Oh – and by the way the last petulant Chartered Surveyor that tried to change the market with a woeful website is still licking his wounds from the lashings he received at the hands of Agents whose property information he scraped without permission – and who frequent this site – so you'd better hope to H£ll that none of theirs feature in the "400 estate agents' properties" this article refers to. "…Norcliffe said it now has 1,500 visitors a month and 2,000 followers." So – only 75% of your "followers" visit the site once a month? And you say that is "…way ahead of where I expected it to be”. Really? Boy – you set the bar so low that you couldn't slide your business card under it, pal. Least that way you are happy with your performance, I guess…
The hidden gem in all the above – “Ultimately, I will become an online estate agent – but I am not there yet.” Oh, believe me – you are. You have "what it takes" – by the bucketload. Come on, sunshine – bring it on. We're all waiting…
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Ha ha. BTW properties were taken off Zoopla and at present I am not breaking any of their rules as far as I know, but in discussion with them as I write (hopefully whoever tipped them off is now laughing so much they have spilled their Mochalino or whatever they drink). That said though if anyone sees a property and can believe it should be removed, then please let me know why and I'm happy to do so. The site isn't set up to show agents properties, merely those provided by Zoopla so you would need to take up your challenge with them.
Regarding bringing it on. Well done you! Some spirit at last rather than merely trying to rubbish the site. The point is though, if you don't try you don't know. As such I'm having a go and to be honest if it doesn't work, for whatever reason, then I'll do something else. Unlike some people out there (including some agents) I'm not afraid to fail and haven't worked at the same thing all my life. Best of luck to you in your endeavors I don't work on a competitive plain, there's loads of work and money out there for everyone to share, unfortunately some people want to keep it all to themselves it seems.
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Okay – As I said earlier I don't believe in being underhand or otherwise trying to benefit from other's hard work. It seems the point of discussion revolves around the site displaying private as well as estate agent listings (which BTW it didn't, the article was incorrect in that respect), but as I'm a righteous kind of guy have removed all property listings for now. Small delay, until I get the private listings which I know will come! The site is not about trying to cheese off agents or indeed do them out of work, it's about changing how things are done and believe me that change is coming!!! Keep an eye on the site, you'll soon see more listings. If any estate agents out there wish to list properties for free, do so, if not don't choice is yours as they say.
To avoid any useless comments (albeit I suspect they'll come as some people are very boring in such respects, I've not taken off the listings for any other reason than it seems right to do so, no one has 'forced' or otherwise made me feel I need to do so. Enough said, end or is it the beginning?
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D'oh! – and there was me thinking I would be able to chew at your ankles all night. Still – tomorrow is another day, Scarlett, as the old saying goes – and you haven't yet enlightened me on my mathematical chuff-up…
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PeeBee – I really do like banter with guys such as yourself. Your maths are way off. The site has today alone had close to 200 visitors last time I looked. You are correct that the Twitter followers don't visit the site each day or indeed regularly, but I'm sure a clever guy like you doesn't need me to tell you how Twitter works, suffice to say that OneDirection followers don't, I imagine, frequently visit the band's site, they merely post comments on Twitter. I'm not sure you've grasped the concept of Social Media, perhaps too long pushing buttons on a calculator and not getting enough social interaction eh 😉
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"…perhaps too long pushing buttons on a calculator and not getting enough social interaction eh" Au contraire, Mr Surveyor – I have been socially interacting all day. It's called "meeting with" or "speaking to" "people" in order to achieve my personal and business goals. You should search those terms – they're really interesting facets of an "Estate Agent's" "role" in the "homeselling and buying process". There's three more for you. Happy Googling!
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Thanks for the banter peebee. Apologies if my sense of humor has rattled anyone's cages today, just a bit of fun. Hope you all do well in your endeavors!
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Don't you worry, Mr Surveyor – you'll soon know if and when you rattle any cages…
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This guy has a whiff of familiarity about him, it's as though someone has dug up the corpse of @realisingreality from the old EAT days, dusted him down, jump started him and found a few months in the ground hadn't done the fella all that much harm and he's no longer quite as mad as a badger just a little bit – Jonnie
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Jonnie – Mad as a badger, who me? Don't know the references of course, why would I, but suffice to say just because something didn't work in the past, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Didn't Leonardo invent the Helicopter, ok before his time. See the point! Let me put it this way, times change and people either do or get left behind. the next generation won't be so tied to old fashioned modes of doing things as some believe. That, allied to advances in technology and big data, will in my view see a paradigm shift. Now of course I may be wrong and if I am, so what a few thousand spent. However when I'm right, I'll be there involved in it and not sat on the sidelines wishing I was. Anyway, best of luck to you in any event. I sincerely wish you and all the best with their endeavors.
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I'm sorry, you just sound to much like @realisingreality with the idiocy turned down to 'mild' – But in the spirit of politeness I wish you the very best with your venture – Jonnie
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There is no 'Mild' Jonnie it just takes a while for confidence to grow and for the stoker to get more coal in the boiler. If bonkers were a steam train this has all the makings of the Mallard. Also in the spirit of politeness. Good luck… (you'll be needing it)
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Thanks guys for the closing kind words. In respect of needing luck, don't we all! It's not the case though that I'm thinking of bungee jumping off a building using nothing more than an elastic band and saying that I'm going to survive. This isn't really, in the scheme of the challenges we face as a world, significant in any way and I for one don't suppose it is. Merely giving it a go is all, failure is not an option and BTW I don't believe in failure merely experiences. Thanks again though.
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Surveyor on September 23, 2014 at 5:49 pm " Your maths are way off. The site has today alone had close to 200 visitors last time I looked." Surveyor on September 23, 2014 at 6:38 pm "Now at a 115% increase over yesterday, what does that equate to then?" SO… using the above statistics, you are inferring that the previous day's 'visitor' figures was somewhere around 90 – am I correct? All fine and dandy – but referring back to the original article, it was stated that the site "…now has 1,500 visitors a month…" – which equates to a daily average of 50 visitors – NOT the ninety you infer it had yesterday. Wonder how many you'll get tomorrow? Please let us know – I'll work out some stats for you per property for your next press release. Oh – that's not going to be very easy, is it – you've lost all your properties in one fell swoop…
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PeeBee. Is this really a good use of your time, only you can decide? Regarding "losing" properties. Read previous post, I removed them voluntarily as to be honest they were only there so something was displayed. The intention has always been to list properties generated by the site, not those from others. Really I do wonder why you bother posting, but am glad you do as I have a reason to respond, i.e. let's keep the debate going the longer the better in my view. I'll let you know regarding visitors. BTW – who said 1,500 visitors a month, I don't recall stating that as a fact possibly said approaching that number, which is indeed correct.
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Whoop, Whoop, Whoop, Warning, Warning, Changing direction so violently is not allowed! Please answer the points raised! Peebee's maths is off but in your favour. 1500 per month is under 50 per day. Approaching 1500/ month is less again.
Given yesterday was your big chance to shine with 16,000 agent subscribers being made aware of your service 200 visits is more a sign of not at all interested than anything you can take heart from.
Jonnie has this one taped and has saved me typing a paragraph.
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Benay – Word of advice, save typing altogether as your comments don't influence the universe I operate within, merely serve to empower it!
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"BTW – who said 1,500 visitors a month, I don't recall stating that as a fact possibly said approaching that number, which is indeed correct." Mr Surveyor – THIS is what happens when, as you state yourself "Regarding the quotes in this article, well suffice to say they sound worse in black and white than I'd have liked. But hey an off the cuff phone call, when you are waiting for your child to get off a coach, can sometimes lead to rash remarks." NOT, I would suggest, the attitude of a professional businessman but is, in my opinion, clear indication, as are I also believe, your comments in general that you are simply 'playing' with this venture. Feel free to prove me wrong. I'll be watching…
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PeeBee – I think my qualifications, experience and general approach to life proves me as a Professional (not sure your definition is the same as it is an individual point of view). Playing at the venture, hey again compared to Stelios whose recently entered this market or indeed PurpleBricks.com or indeed various other online estate agents, I suppose I am in so much as I've chosen not to throw many tens of thousands at this project. That I'm sure will come in good time, you keeping this debate going I'm also sure will help keep people looking so thanks for the kind assistance in that respect. Keep watching by all means, in fact that's the intent! Thanks again 😉
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"I think my qualifications, experience and general approach to life proves me as a Professional…" the your thoughts are totally incorrect. You are a member of a Professional body, sir. You therefore are obligated to conduct your BUSINESS in the professional manner dictated by said body – which I trust you do. As far as 'experience' is concerned this is no guarantee of professionalism – firstly because you do not define what the "experience" you refer to relates to; secondly, neither competence nor compliance with professional standards can be judged simply on 'how long' or 'how many'. If you don't agree – here's the acid test. You tell me – I have 36 years of "experience" in the industry – how "professional" am I? In respect of your measure of "playing at it" – sorry but financial input/outlay alone means absolutely squat. Re-read your posts – YOU decide if you come across as a chancer, or someone who actually has the passion, drive and attitude to make this work. Unfortunately, there are those who may already have come to a decision based upon THEIR reading…
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PeeBee – points noted. I am, BTW, a member of several professional organisations. As for being a chancer, Google defines the word as: a person who exploits any opportunity to further their own ends. So I suppose I am, aren't you and most people? The difference may well be, albeit I don't know you of course or even most people, is that I'm also trying to help others along my journey and am not intended EVER to be like some people I come across, i.e. only out for themselves and taking a short term view. Like it or not.
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"As for being a chancer, Google defines the word as…" Mr Surveyor – whatever GOOGLE defines it as is irrelevant. What you don't seem to (want to) grasp here is that Google isn't judging you – the 1468 and counting viewers of this article are (that is a month's viewers for your site, don't forget – three quarters of your 'followers' – in only TWO DAYS. So far – you have ONE person who has given you anything like a thumbs up. But here's what you need to know. You state "I'm also trying to help others along my journey and am not intended EVER to be like some people I come across, i.e. only out for themselves and taking a short term view". Sir – that be the case then you will have not only my total and unequivocal backing but my complete and utter admiration to boot – and I look forward to the day that you give me cause to endorse you accordingly.
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PeeBee – I truly look forward to the day that you can endorse my efforts and others. On the point of 1,468 views though, I see only a few people complaining or otherwise knocking what I'm trying to achieve. So is that a worthy enough endorsement? If we consider the stats, 1,468 (I don't have time to count the negative posts) but I suspect it's a minute % of that figure. On that basis then (Gordon Brown I recall was an expert with Statistics, but I'm not) I call this exercise a resounding success.
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Update Mr/Mrs PeeBee. Already today, compared to the whole day this time last week, sessions are up 38.1%. Now as you rightly say, low numbers, but hey up is up. Just thought I'd let you know and remember, this is the first bit of such marketing/discussion I've undertaken until now I've been much more subdued. Question, BTW, why do you take pleasure (as it seems you do) from other people's failure? How do you benefit from that?
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46% now, growing by the minute 😉
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Okay debate has started, which is exactly what I wanted. So now I'll explain in my view, why estate agents should take advantage of this site.
1 – You can list your properties, at present, for free! How does that compare to Rightmove, Primelocation, etc… (before some say, yes don't yet have the visitor numbers but you're not paying so why do you care, it only takes 1 buyer to buy a property and there's a growing number potentials out there using the site).
2 – Those registering and using the site are potential property buyers, sellers and/or renters, as such you can communicate with them and try to use your expert skills to convert them to clients. Again not currently charging you to do so either.
So, apart from the obvious threat posed by private buyers listing their properties and dealing, if they choose to do so, without an agent (that can happen in any event, there's loads of mediums out there to facilitate that), then I don't see why the gripes from various agents.
I concur, at present, the site is relatively basic and is growing. So what, Oak trees start with acorns, as did Facebook, Rightmove, Zoopla, Amazon, etc. etc… I am happy to let Estate Agents market their properties, alongside private clients if they choose to do so. I don't see the problem, but hey I'm a simple Surveyor (now cue comments), so could be barking up the wrong tree.
For those interested in knowing. Last month's stats (google Analytics and I'm told they may not count all visitors) Users up 25.33% and sessions up 27.50%, bounce rate 7.35% and time spent on site down 91.71% (due I suspect to the content I'm adding all the time). Suffice to say, month on month has seen growth on all fronts, those (PeeBee) who may decry these numbers FILL YOUR BOOTS the facts are as shown from Google. It's irrelevant where these numbers started from, by default they started in January 2014 at zero and each month has seen growth, over the 3 year plan I have, I expect more growth to occur as content increases. Jump on board agents, what have you really got to lose, the train is leaving the station in any event, you can be on it (not necessarily my train of course, I'm not that arrogant) or continue to say that steam trains are the future and be left behind. Happy to work with Estate Agents, Solicitors, in fact anyone who wants to be reasonable that is.
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If you can earn £1000/ day doing what you are trained to do why are you spending time and money doing stuff you are not qualified in?
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Not qualified in??? I've bought and sold, over many years, properties across the UK. Let us not get into who's qualified to do what, I'm going to win that debate hands down with some people for sure!. Regarding £1,000 per day. Those days are numbered for Surveyors in my view again. The rise of internet portals, such as mine and others, is increasing competition and fees are becoming much more transparent, going at the days when a purchaser is solely influenced by what the Estate Agents tells them and who they tell them to use! The internet has changed/is changing. Adapt to survive. Does that clarify sufficiently well for you?
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I've watched two caesarean births and have watched Casualty on the telly I don't expect BMC will accept that as qualification to have a go for myself.
Take the folks behind OTM, they have relevant experience and previous success, they are targeting your audience and are struggling to capture 20% the industry, how is a chap who has bought and sold a few properties and tinkered with a website hoping to compete with that? You can dismiss experience and qualification if you like but then you reduce the attempt to naivety and luck. You crack on and see how you go signing up vendors, agents, staff and applicants. Of all the attempts we have seen on here over the years and all of the discussions Peebee has had with people like you he has yet to be wrong.
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I don't have their overhead so it doesn't matter if I only get 0.0001% say of the available traffic, it's still a good starting point. BTW – I never dismissed experience or qualifications, they are very important. However you don't know mine, think you do, but don't and in any event everyone starts somewhere and the only way to get experience is to do so, learning along the way.
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Err 0.0001% of actual portal web traffic is 22 hits per month. In no-one's book is that a starting point let alone a good one.
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Benay – again I'm not sure how some people come up with their numbers/estimates or indeed why they bother as what I'm doing doesn't impact them!!! That said, I like to counter, but try to use facts rather than opinion. As such, quick web search reveals the following for Rightmove http://Www.rightmove.co.uk has received an estimated 16,252,000 visits over the last 30 days. Now, how does that equate to 22 hits per month? Oh and don't forget Zoopla at 49,000 last 30 days or indeed, Reallymoving.com at 120,300, shall I go on? I don't say these stats are accurate as they are not mine, merely reproduced and there's likely some double counting going on. But suffice to say, your comments are adequately rubbished I believe.
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If a goldfish swims around its bowl 10 times how many fish are there? if 10 fish swim around the bowl once how many fish? If x fish swim round the bowl y times how many fish? You know it is x but without knowing a value of y you have no idea of what is going on
My figures might be rubbish but I am not basing a business on figures which are equally as rubbish. The fact you have worked out a business plan based on figures that are nonsensical says quite a lot about your grasp of what you are attempting.
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"16,252,000 visits over the last 30 days. Now, how does that equate to 22 hits per month? Oh and don't forget Zoopla at 49,000 last 30 days or indeed, Reallymoving.com at 120,300…" Okay – 0.0001% of those equates to 16.4213, so you've still got a big hill to climb, Mr Surveyor, to get to Benay's figure of 22. According to my 'O'-Level maths, you need another 5, 578,700 visitors to make the figures balance. "…shall I go on?" Erm – I think you'll have to – or settle with not much more than sweet 16. Your choice – which is it to be?
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PeeBee. Have I put too many 000's in? Don't know, haven't been really trying to be accurate to be completely honest more just messing about with you guys. I don't really care what other websites do or can do. I concentrate on what I'm doing, find that best. Suffice to say, there's a big slice of cake and I only need a small piece of it, in particular bearing in mind that the offer is different, i.e. not just listing properties for sale rent, but providing quotes as well, oh and buyer's register, oh and various other revenue generation opportunities. Again you guys miss the point, unfortunately. Everything starts as 0, and anyone with an ounce of web knowledge will I'm sure agree. With virtually no marketing budget, to get to where the site is in this timescale is a fabulous achievement. You don't agree, that's fine. Who cares really, certainly not be (apologies if sounds rude) honest!
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"Don't know, haven't been really trying to be accurate to be completely honest more just messing about with you guys." Yet here you are trying to drum up business with "us guys". What a sales pitch. Every word you post digs you a deeper hole, Mr Surveyor. Sorry – but it just beggars belief.
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Benay
You don't know what my business plan is, so stop worrying about it. Say well done for trying and hope it goes well for you. Why would you say otherwise??? I wish you all the best in your endeavors, why would I do otherwise (even if BTW you were in direct competition with me!). Have a read of the Science of Getting Rich, might help explain better than I can. BTW up nearly 46% on the same day last week and we're not even at close of the day yet. Again small numbers, but growing and that's what counts (you seem to keep missing that simple fact for some strange reason???).
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"BTW up nearly 46% on the same day last week and we're not even at close of the day yet. " Erm… oops – sorry – that was me. I'm sorry I'm bu99ering up your figures. You've made my day, though – I've never been "nearly 46%" of ANYTHING before! ;o)
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I am not worrying about it but struggle to understand how you somehow can't understand some real basics of any business but are quite confidently challenging people who do.
You are the one quoting figures and then constantly challenging anyone who can punch a calculator, you obviously can't. Taking just the rightmove figure you quoted 16,252,000 .0001% of that is 16.252 visits per month.
Bearing in mind that there aren't 16 million sales each month ( its about 105,000) the ratio of web traffic to sales shows you would be better off starting a junk mail business which turns in 4% against 0.65% for a website as well known as Rightmove. Your aged clientelle are quite happy and familiar with Readers Digest so why not toy with that as an idea
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I guess I'm able to calculate (in fact have a mathematics based degree don't you know, not bad for a former bricklayer), but hey really as I say above just playing with you guys and making numbers up for you to waste your time on, don't you realize that yet? Why would I tell you what my website is doing? The % figures used are real, taken from Google Analytics, but outside of that I have no reason to share my business plan with you. I share it, but only with those whom invest time and more importantly money in it. Nuff said?? I doubt it, you guys are easy though.
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Nah. What is easy is allowing you to prove you have no grasp of anything that will make your ambitions reality.
There you go Jonnie the pressure guage is hard against the stop- there is no Mild!
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Isn't a mallard a duck or is a swan or goose? Oh you're referring back to the previous joke very Billy Connelly. Benay, do you really think I am bothered by your comments? I appreciate them, keep them coming it gives me chance to keep telling people about my site, that's the whole purpose, though to be honest I think I've now exhausted this forum for that purpose so will move to more lucrative feeding grounds. Thanks to you all for your support. TTFN as the youth say!
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Okay, following on from PeeBee's comments. I'll explain quickly what inspired me to finally push ahead with this site (I've been playing with if for around 5 years or so, in various guises).
Whilst undertaking a survey of a property in Southampton I was greeted with a 93 year old lady (yes I said 93) who was moving house (vendor obviously) and she was on her own dealing with all that goes with moving house (not uncommon in this part of the world and guys, it really does seem from my experience that we die before our good ladies).
Anyway, this lady was in a real state of panic and very distressed. The reason for this, in part, was the fact that the agent acting for her (as it turned out selling her place and also trying to get her to buy another they were selling, not an uncommon practice as we all know), had advised her that she needed to put a £10k deposit on the place they were trying to sell her. She'd done so as, part of a previous sale, she'd been told that a purchaser was progressing the purchase of her house and as such there was no risk in doing so (this is from memory and I'm not saying these facts are all direct comments, it's what I recall). That sale (if it ever existed) fell through and she'd lost the £10k. She didn't know who to trust, turn to for impartial advice and/or was really worried that the next sale would also fall through (my survey). I could only reassure her partially as my role, as we all know, is to act in the best interest of my client and as such providing her with any guidance or specific advice is outside that remit. Now I accept she may well have been making the whole thing up, that's not the point.
From that point I decided I'd push ahead (I also accept that the site may not have helped her in the circumstances she found herself in). This site has been created with various goals in mind, 1) to make me money as I'm in business; 2) to help people who don't have information on hand and don't know their way around the house buying/selling process (most people), 3) provide consumers with a place to make an informed choice, 4) to provide users with a place to interact, share experiences and information, including documents. without divulging the business plan, on my own (pretty much) I don't think in the few months I've been doing this I've done too badly (as well as running a successful Chartered Surveyor's practice and earning as much as I choose to earn in that business in the meantime). Sure people can do better, sure people can spend more and sure some people want to decry or bemoan what I've done. No problem, you're entitled to your opinion. As for me (which is what the I don't care what agents think comment was meant to mean), I will continue regardless of negative comments and/or challenges that come along. Some people may even be able to close the site down for whatever reason, fine I'll start up another if that's what I choose to do, if not I'll do something else. Ultimately though how we buy, sell and/or rent property in the UK has to change in my view, I'm merely helping facilitate that change in a very very small way.
I know the above sounds very pompous, I make no apology for what I believe. I was always taught to be cautious and like to think I operate on a fair and square basis. Nothing more than that really. If you agree this is good, great and please spread the word and use the site, if not, then don't. Either way, I'll continue on my journey and wish you all the best on yours. (excuse grammar, spelling, typing quickly as I'm also trying to do other work as well).
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A 93 yr old woman with no-one to guide her. Amazing. From my experience no matter how old a vendor is, there is nearly always a member of the family somewhere who is more than happy to stick their oar … sorry "guide" them. I honestly can't remember when we had a vendor last who had absolutely nobody to guide them. As a last resort, where was her solicitor?
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I only relay the comments given to me Taff. Didn't say they were true. Another example, 86 year old lady, moved down and two weeks later her husband died. Day after the funeral, decided (she was a spunky old girl to be sure) decided to go out and explore her local area. Fell off the bus, broke her arm and laid up for a couple of months. Again, selling on her own, son lived in Edinburgh. She thought the site was a great idea. Suffice to say, apart from the sceptics on this forum, I've done lots of straw polls and speaking to lots of people over the last few years about such a site and to date have received overwhelming positive responses. Now you guys are obviously the experts so I bow to your greater wisdom, however I believe this is a good thing and that's what counts as it's my money I'm spending. I'd like you guys to get on board with it, but hey if not then not.
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"I've done lots of straw polls and speaking to lots of people over the last few years about such a site and to date have received overwhelming positive responses." From the article – "The site was launched in January, and Norcliffe said it now has 1,500 visitors a month and 2,000 followers." Yet – NOT ONE LISTING (other than the 400 you scraped from another portal with the excuse that "to be honest they were only there so something was displayed.") from all these "positive responses" in nine months since switching on. But that's okay – your stance remains "“It is way ahead of where I expected it to be,” I take it?
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Listing portion only live on Monday, next point?
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BTW – why do you think I'm on here and haven't been before. Do you suppose my contacting Ros was an accident?
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"Do you suppose my contacting Ros was an accident?"
Accident? Nope. Monumental mistake? Absobl00dylutely.
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You really don't get it do you. I'm wondering what you've created that makes you such an expert! Really not interested to be honest either.
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Finally – about time some shout out very loudly. I thought I'd post my Google stats for the period 17th September (bearing in mind the site has been developing month on month, listing only live this week) compared to today. These are taken from Google Analytics. If anyone, with a serious intent, wants to discuss getting involved, PM me from the site. I'm not au fait with most of what this means, I'm a simple surveyor, but up is up. End and TTFN for sure.
Sessions
47.62%
62 v. 42
Users
100.00%
55 v. 0
Pageviews
68.97%
196 v. 116
Pages / Session
14.46%
3.16 v. 2.76
Avg. Session Duration
103.18%
00:02:26 v. 00:01:12
Bounce Rate
100.00%
3.23% v. 0.00%
% New Sessions
0.59%
79.03% v. 78.57%
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How many properties?
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blah blah blah – Rome wasn't built in a day or even 3 days since the launch of the property listing section. Say something worthwhile or really, can't be bothered wasting my time with you any longer.
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Great website, it has given me lots of ideas.
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Ric Glad to be of assistance. I'm sure loads of people are going to copy my ideas, I'm used to that over the years. Best of luck to you. As Steve Jobs (I think said) good artists copy others, great artists steal (I don't mean that disparagingly). BTW though, you don't know my plans, this is merely the start and I have fabulous ideas yet to implement. Why copy when you can join? I'm looking for someone to get involved, too big a project on my own you see, PM me if you want to discuss options.
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Sorry Surveyor you misunderstand me…………………I now know what NOT to do! and I am not being rude…….it's just your website is a tad busy for me…..not really sure what it is meant to be doing……..there is a bit too much of everything on the home page…….I've openly said before I am not afraid to copy good ideas and make them better……. imitation after all is the sincerest form of flattery………but in the case of your website…….nope, its kind of like every idea you've every seen rolled badly into one. THAT SAID, I wish you the very best……competition is good.
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Ric Ok did misunderstand previous post. To be honest with you though, thanks!! I'm not a web designer and this site is evolving all the time. Your feedback, thanks for taking the time, has confirmed what I've heard elsewhere and as such I'll now redesign it to be less busy. Functionality will remain, but I'll make it easier over the coming days/weeks to use and interface with. I'm still quite proud of the idea though, ironing out issues is part of the process and feedback like this is truly appreciated. Not like some numpy feedback which just seeks to moan and groan all the time.
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Totally agree! you have to try something and take feedback good or bad and adapt…..I wish you luck………for what it is worth my opinion is…………..More uniformity and less bulk info on the home page, just catchy "click here for selling" or "here for surveys" or "here for a valuation" …..I waffle with the best of them…..and for me a home page needs to be sharp, colourful, interactive, tell the punter what you are about……BUT then have layers to the website where more info on each subject can be found as you delve deeper………otherwise too much text makes me think……where do I start!…………………I am at a similar stage with developing something at the moment…….. and just about to get the website sorted…..the idea is there but translating now into an easy catchy and user friendly format is the key.
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Ric – Totally agree with your comments, thanks. I'm now working to innovate, adapt and overcome these matters. Thanks again, really appreciate such feedback, keep watching it will in the next few days or so, look completely different!
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"Question, BTW, why do you take pleasure (as it seems you do) from other people's failure? How do you benefit from that?" Oh boy – you're gonna regret asking that. Tell me – WHO invented the wheel? Or what about fire – name the patent holder? Which famous individual first had the notion that you could take what dropped out of a chicken's nethers and chuck it in a pan of boiling water for three minutes – then eat it with bread soldiers*?
Simple answer is that someone did – but no-one knows who. Those 'someones' did it out of need. There was a hole to fill – they plugged the void with their actions. What 'hole' are you trying to plug, Mr Surveyor? I've read your 'reasons' – sorry but I'm FAR from convinced that your motivation is to invent a better wheel, or a brighter fire simply for the benefit of mankind, or save a chicken the indignity then pain of losing its offspring. YOU have stuck your head above the parapet, Mr Surveyor. YOU are claiming to be the new 'Hovis' – and that the 'old' Hovis no longer satisfies the average bread-eater. Yet you offer an empty wrapper – not a single crumb inside. Do I want you to fail? Don't be a berk. Show me how to improve what I do for my clients and I'll be your biggest fan. But don't fluff up your feathers and pretend to be the best chicken in the coop when in reality you're the runt of the farmyard. People ain't daft – you're not giving either the public or those in the profession any credit for sniffing ******** when it's stuck in front of their noses. If your venture fails it is because it wasn't executed correctly – not because I or someone like me wished it upon you. And with an attitude of "…I'm having a go and to be honest if it doesn't work, for whatever reason, then I'll do something else."; "Now of course I may be wrong and if I am, so what a few thousand spent"; "…and BTW I don't believe in failure merely experiences." (I could go on but I think the few examples pretty much paint the picture…) then failure is something that you are not only aware is looming to pounce if allowed to do so but to be honest you seem to be inviting it without anyone wishing it upon you. For every one of the stories you've related I can trump them with hundreds. What you're NOT letting on, is WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT IT for those people? More's to the point – WHAT WOULD YOUR VENTURE DO FOR PEOPLE LIKE THEM?
*trick question, by the way… care to tell me why?
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PeeBee. Can't resist. Okay I admit haven't bothered and won't be reading your full post. Don't have time or the inclination. Suffice to say I think I have your measure. You believe you're on a quest to banish the world of some form of evil as you perceive it, seems you think I'm part of that. Suffice to say, I'm not so if that is your mission then you may be better advised to find someone more worthy of your noble efforts. I am merely someone trying to make a way in the world and have created something (what do you create with your rubbish??) to try to do so. If it works great, if not so what. That really is it.
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PeeBee – I get sent a daily message of thought and it seems, as it usually does, to fit in with what's going on in my world. I thought I'd share today's with you. See below.
On this day of your life,
wayne, I believe God wants you to know…
…that moaning and groaning about things changes nothing,
and never does anyone any good.
If you don't want to do anything to change it, stop
complaining about it. If you can't do anything to change
it no matter how much you want to, then accept it for now
and simply resolve to create a different tomorrow — but
don't let today be ruined while you are waiting.
Does that make any sense? It does to me.
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Staggered that this story has had 90 odd comments is my thought(albeit coming in late). It is clear from reading the story that the model is a non starter and destined for the "good effort but never took off" pile.
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Wilko. Why is it a non starter? Let's look at it, listing properties for sale (already out there), search for quotes (already out there), search local information (already out there) property social network (new), buyer registration (newish). My point is, whilst there's a lot of work still do so, the basic elements are already in use in the marketplace, but spread across the web. As such, and I accept it's not going to be easy to break into the market on a very very limited budget, what's wrong with putting all the above and more into a single place to save users having to trudge around and indeed register (with all the hassle that can cause) numerous sites? Truly, such feedback is appreciated, I'd be happy to hear more if you'd be so kind?
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Not sure how you feel a property social network is new(Z and RM FB and TW seem to have that area up and running) And registration is used by all the providers I've known. You say it won't be easy to break into the market on a limited budget and that, along with the fact that you have already identified the 1000s of others that are trying the same/similar, have tried, or tried and failed and in recognising those 2 fundamentals you've answered your own q as to why it won't work. You also fail to identify the next new innovation (I don't know what it will be but I would think, judging by prototypes, it will be app based – not web and will probably be follow product from the top dating apps that are worth $Billions.) I applaud your efforts, but then I would the 10000s of others trying to come up with the same or similar ideas. Your proposition is quite simply put…..old hat.
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Wilko – Thanks obviously I'm going to disagree (to a degree in any event) but I do appreciate such feedback as I'm certainly not pretending to know everything there is to know about this kind of thing. However as the site is relatively cheap to develop (I do most of it myself) and as it's generating some interest already I'll keep on plugging away, but won't at this stage, spend too much cash on it (which is kind of the plan anyway). Best wishes to you, thanks again.
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Oh, no motivational words of wisdom this morning?
Here is some Wayne; if you are walking down a path you have never walked before and some crusty old yokel sat beside the path advises you not to go any further there is normally good reason. Don't just turn back and give up, sit down, put up with the stink and listen. When you’ve listened make an informed decision to turn back or go on. The first thing you need to get a grip of is the numbers, it is no good reverse engineering them to fit the point you are trying to make. When you have made the schoolboy error or forgetting to multiply by 100 to convert a decimal into a percentage don't claim it to be a deliberate wind up. People forgive mistakes, they don't forget ********.
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Are you talking about yourself on that bench? Ok some facts. yesterday numbers were up over 50% from the same period the week before, today they are up 36.73%. Listen chap. I don't insult people unless I'm willing to back it up, it's easy sit behind a computer and do so but I've yet to come across a coward who doesn't hide behind something or someone. Last post to you, can't be bothered and don't care about your opinion or wisdom???
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Update – for those of you who may be interested to know.
Google Analytics Stats as at today, 16:09
Sessions – up 81.63% on yesterday, which was up 50% on the week before. 89 users today (extrapolated to an annualised figure 32,485 or 2,707 per month (already ahead of my end of year one projections).
Avg. Session duration – 2:05 minutes (monitoring interaction on the site, people are navigating around and reading the documents).
Bounce Rate – <1%
Properties for sale listed 0 (not a huge part of the site in any event) and may in part be due to a development hitch which I've now noticed and will be fixed when I can work out how to do it.
So what does this tell me, along with feedback I've had from many many sources over the last few months. Most of you don't know what the heck you are talking about (those critical posters I'm referring to of course). We shall see, but data is data, and some peoples' opinion is exactly that. No need to waste your time replying, I'm not interested in anyone's comments who can't see past the end of their nose or who is stuck in the past!!
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Update – Google Analytics confirms, session traffic has now doubled since yesterday, that's on top of 50% increase week on week yesterday. HA!
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FEEDBACK taken on-board, more to come soon. Check out the changes at http://www.totallymoving.co.uk
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