Purplebricks is witholding commission from Local Property Experts because of breaches of anti-money laundering rules. However, after enquiries by EYE, it appears to have dramatically cut the threatened numbers, saying last night that it will mostly pay out.
Worried LPEs had earlier said over £60,000 worth of commission in total would not be paid, based on emails – seen by EYE – from co-founder Kenny Bruce.
Altogether, the business itself agrees there are 450 properties listed in the last fortnight in July that were not compliant with the law and with Purplebricks’ own requirements on anti-money laundering.
In one email sent from Kenny Bruce, seen by EYE and headed ‘Anti-money laundering checks’, some LPEs were told that they had “allowed a property/properties to go ‘live’ without the proper identification checks in place. Lists of the LPEs and properties threatened with non-payment have also been seen by us.
The LPEs have been disputing that they did anything wrong with a number furiously threatening to quit, EYE has been told.
Bruce’s email says: “It gives me no pleasure to do this but you will not receive payment for the instruction of any property that went live from Monday 16th July 2018 and we can see that you allowed a property/properties to go ‘live’ without the proper identification checks in place.
“It gives me no pleasure to do this but you will not receive payment for the instruction of any property listed in these circumstances, as you are in breach of your licence agreement which requires you to comply with the law.”
The email ends: “In future please take the time to ensure that you only allow properties to go ‘live’ when you have the appropriate identification checks in place to avoid this happening again.”
LPEs are self-employed and so are not paid any basic salary, but do receive £150 per listing.
We have been told that LPEs are required by Purplebricks to check LexusNexis for details of property owners – a free service provided by Purplebricks – and to pay £3 for Land Registry details as to property ownership.
They must then make this checking information available to head office before a listing can go live.
The move to withold commission led to uproar among LPEs, with a number threatening to leave.
LPEs said that the punishment far outweighs any crime, amid claims that they carried out the checks correctly and that head office has not reviewed the information properly.
Some LPEs are said to have several properties on the ‘black lists’ sent out by Purplebricks head office.
One LPE who will lose commission but insists they correctly supplied the information told EYE: “How can you go out in confidence on a visit if you don’t know whether you will be paid or not for the listing?
“There are 650 of us – all self-employed, and not on any kind of basic.”
Yesterday, a spokesperson for Purplebricks was unapologetic about what it called its robust approach.
He said: “Purplebricks takes compliance extremely seriously and, as you would expect from a leading professional estate agency, we have a compliance team who have put in place comprehensive and robust standards.
“As a result we have a number of internal compliance procedures and administrative measures over and above any legislative obligations, and these all form part of our approach to achieving best practice.
“Our Local Property Experts are fully aware of their responsibilities and, whilst they all work hard to meet our compliance requirements, there will be occasions when our compliance team will need to step in to resolve non-compliant cases. This is true of all agency groups.
“Those matters identified recently by our compliance team represent a very small proportion of our overall property stock. As is usual in such cases the large majority of these become fully compliant within hours of being identified. We are committed to complete compliance and take a robust approach.”
EYE was told that commission will be paid on properties made compliant, but we asked for clarification on this.
One LPE told us yesterday evening that they had heard nothing since Kenny Bruce’s email, and that they had not been told that Purplebricks would back down.
They told us: “The story is not whether LPEs are compliant.
“Purplebricks compliance is substantial, it’s that the ID has not been loaded quickly enough or added to the right section of our platform. To make sure people do load it to the right section, no one gets paid.
Self employed? Contractors working exclusively for a single client providing a single service?
No minimum wage, no sickness or holiday pay, no working time regulations, tax and national insurance savings! I know what I think of the claim they’re self employed
I know too what I think of those who 3 years ago promised to enforce business protection regulations in the industry.
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They are taking them all of the road unpaid for 2 days for training as well. Not optional, definitely not employees though.
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Hang on, so if 450 properties listed in a TWO week period did not comply with AML regulations how many current and historic listings do not/did not comply?
What about buyers where it appears that PB has little contact?
How can PB or their conveyancing partners verify a buyers ‘likeness’ if they have never seen them?
I know, I have a solution, how about 650 local branch offices?
Also, 65,000 instructions last accounting year divided by 650 LPE’s = 100 instructions each, on average, times £150 listing fee = £15,000 average listing fees per LPE.
Less refunds, their costs and now non-payment of fees for AML breaches!
Does this make LPE’s too desperately reliant on add-on ‘ commissions’?
Is knowingly referring users to awful conveyancing partners offering the best advice to their users to gain a commission/referral fee to help keep them afloat regardless of completion?
This is not, and shall never be, ‘proper’ estate agency?
No wonder their LPE turnover is so high and they have had to diversify into much higher commission markets abroad?
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“…no working time regulations…”
Actually, Robert – PurpleBricks seem to have implemented their own WTRs – as promised to sellers on the PurpleBricks website:
“Your Experts will remain in constant contact with you throughout your sale, and will be available to you at anytime, day or night, 7 days a week.”
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Local Property Experts……
Are we saying that these ‘Subbies’ paid commission only are resorting to desperate measures to make ends meet?
Surely you’d expect better behaviour from ‘Experts’?
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Shudder, purplebricks sounds like a hideous place to work, what a condescending email to the field workers followed by a press release of corporate guff
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Double standards Mr Bruce? Surely, you should ‘Pay (’em) Anyway’?…
After all, you expect that of your firm’s clients.
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I’ve been told that that the timescale that properties must be live is so strict, that LPEs are often up till 1-2 in the morning putting uploading floorplans etc. I wonder if this is really about compliance or something else.
The whole article not a great advert for PB or the supposed benefits of being an LPE, no wonder they have so much turnover
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The model is not working as they thought.
Trying to get Experts to do admin work doesn’t always work.
I absolutely hate admin as that’s not where my skills are. I am more of a business generation machine.
I am sure some of these property experts are also business generators opposed to administrators.
All in all, when businesses start withholding pay or changing the goal post it only leads to low morale within the organsisition.
I am sure the property experts will not take any bull from Brucie.
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According to NTSEAT LPEs are classed as ‘employed’. Presumably, NTSEAT will now be coordinating and taking multi-agency actions against Purplebricks for any number of breaches of AML compliance, employment law, BPR etc…?
Don’t hold your breath folks.
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#CanOfWorms
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The quotation in full from NTSEAT in 2017 was
“at this time is that an individual who engages in estate agency work on behalf of, or as a representative of, a company (whether they are directly employed or self-employed) would be considered to be acting the course of their employment in terms of Section 23A(4) of the Estate Agents Act 1979”
Your move gentlemen.
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Chris, could you explain where NTSEAT say LPEs are classed as employed?
The legislation you point to relates to being a member of a redress scheme. This suggests NTSEAT consider it necessary to be part of a redress scheme whether you are employed or self-employed.
There is nothing that you point to which says NTSEAT have given an opinion on the employment status of LPEs.
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They are either self-employed, or employed. To my knowledge, not one LPE has ever claimed to be in a quantum state or has the surname of Shroedinger.
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Which reminds me of a physicists joke I once heard. What noise does a sub-atomic sized duck with a cleft-palette make? ‘Quark’.
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I guess you don’t suffer from Anatidaephobia 🙂
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I do
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Perhaps NTSEAT and HMRC should be pushed to clarify how some listings negotiators are classed as employees for the purposes of Corporation and Income tax, VAT regulations and national insurance purposes (which become a punitive commercial disadvantage to their employers) and others can avoid all that by saying they’re self employed.
Given the outcome of the clarification either all agents make all their self self employed or Purplebricks comply with regulations and taxes that currently apply to 99.55% of the industry.
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IR35: “is tax legislation that is designed to combat tax avoidance by workers supplying their services to clients via an intermediary, such as a limited company, but who would be an employee if the intermediary was not used. Such workers are called ‘disguised employees’ by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs ”
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Anybody cleverer than me have an idea of the likely costs on PB of having to treat LPEs and TOs as employees ?
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365 day x 24 hour contract is 8760 hours x 630 contracted areas so 5,518,800 contracted hours. At national minumum wage that’s £41.39 million plus national insurance contribution (currently not paid, another £4.55m)
An employee working 37.5 hours with 4 weeks holiday is 1800 hours/employee, instead of 630 listers there would need to be 3066 of them.
Experts don’t work for NMW so that’s 3066 expert wages (assume an expert is worth £45k?) so about £138 million plus national insurance.
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But… but… but…
But won’t that affect the company’s quoted EBITDA, Robert?
Or their stated pre-everything ‘profit’?
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Nah, they’ll have 25% of the market before playing by the same rules as everyone else is foisted upon them, happy vendors, delighted buyers, well managed sales end to end, drone key drop offs on completion day, quintillion terabytes of data to sweat, one or both Brucies with a chair on dragons den, Larne FC treble winners……
said no person ( except htsnom79 ) ever
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Thanks for that Robert, assume pension contributions, mat leave and sick pay would bump that up. That would put a dent in their P and L.
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I think it is far to say there won’t be any profits to dent if they were made to play on the same playing field as the rest of us
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Is that tax avoidance or tax evasion?
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Is that all they get paid? £150 per listing!
Any other commission? Sorry fees?
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I heard they use to get £250 for listing £250 for selling and £100 for conveyancing.
It’s seems the figures have changed over the last 6-9 months.
It would be good to find out out from the experts themselves.
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This kind of commission makes no sense!!! the amount of properties an LPE would have to list to make a comfortable living would be impossible. Even if they made 300 quid per listing they would then have to deduct all their expenses etc…
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£150 for an instruction £150 if they sell accompanied viewings and £40 on completion if they use PB conveyancers I believe.
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How certain of those figures are you Q73?
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Fairly confident, was told by an LPE I know and trust, its not beyond the realms of possibility I have remembered incorrectly, getting to that age.
Sure if they are wrong Dom will be along shortly to correct me.
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It is odd how none of them (even ex employees) have broken silence on here on what the set up is.
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I’ve thought that, but then I’ve also wondered how anybody with skills in this industry works for them with any degree of self respect, we all know how it goes, we make promises/commitments and at often emotional ( good and bad ) time of peoples lives in getting them moved and try our damnedest thereafter to back it up, list and walk is the polar opposite of backing up your promises/commitments, anybody any good doesn’t have to work for this shower there is better pay, working environment, camaraderie, back up and job satisfaction in the teams assembled on the high street solely focused on BACKING UP the promises made
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Not entirely surprising (and I speak with personal experience), whistleblowers I have spoken to have, to a man and woman, stated threats of legal action by the PB boot boys and girls are always banded around by management if anyone sounds as if they are likely to leave/ express an opinion. I am also aware of at least one employee who has allegedly been given a years OTE to stay quiet about allegations of bullying/ intimidation.
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Chris you seem to always quote these so called ‘whistleblowers’ yet we have never seen any ex LPE or TO speak out.
I have spoken with a number of LPEs and 2 TO in which they are delighted with the flexible working conditions they have.
I think it may be sensible to question wether these mystery disgruntled people are being misquoted.Especially given the recent rulings against you for your misleading and inaccurate PB claims.
Times move on, the laminate floored, pictures in the windows offices are becoming a thing of the past.
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I cannot speak for Chris but I can speak for myself. I have personally recently spoken to 2 current LPEs and both are looking to move on. One is a Territory Owner and is fed up of creating floorplans, listing properties and taking vendor calls until 10pm every night. The other is a basic LPE and says what he is earning with the hours he is doing is not worth it.
The common theme with these 2 (and their co-workers apparently) is you are permently on-call 24/7 as vendors will be rinigng you at all times as they have your mobile number. Flexibility does not really exist as if you block out parts of your diary your Area Director will be on the phone getting you to open it back up.
Why are they not speaking out? They are worried about getting what they are owed when they hand their notice in.
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“Flexibility does not really exist as if you block out parts of your diary your Area Director will be on the phone getting you to open it back up.”
Yep – that’s definitely employee status !
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‘Flexibility does not really exist as if you block out parts of your diary your Area Director will be on the phone getting you to open it back up.”
Wrong the LPEs have a dynamic diary whereby if an appointment is requested on a specific day and time if the 1st LPE is not available the diary moves to the 2nd and will book accordingly.
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Flexibility does not really exist as if you block out parts of your diary your Area Director will be on the phone getting you to open it back up.”
Wrong the LPEs have a dynamic diary whereby if an appointment is requested on a specific day and time if the 1st LPE is not available the diary moves to the 2nd and will book accordingly.
Actually Dom you are wrong if an LPE consistently blocks out too much of their diary they will get a call from their TO telling them to open it back up, if they have to many available properties they can get taken of the road, if they have to many instructions that arent live they can get taken of the road, they get told when they are doing training, granted they have more flexibilty than an employee in a high street firm but you are deluded if they can do what they like when they like.
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How’s the flip-job doing, dom-boy?
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Which one, I have just exchanged on one in cricklewood after 3 years of tenants if this is what you want to know.
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dompritch134From yesterday
Could you ask one of your PB contacts if the dramatic fall in instruction revenue to £666 per listing (less than the min. fee of £707.50 plus VAT) is due to customer refunds?
Thankyou
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Nah, dom-boy – that’s not the one I mean… and you know it.
I mean the one in Hayes that you crowed about here on EYE that your #Fanboy_fave purplepeople had dumped two viewers on you straight away.
The one that went ‘Under Offer’ – then the “Under Offer” vanished… then the listing disappeared off all portals as if my magic. Gone – but certainly not forgotten.
The one you stated the valuer from Connells had been out a couple of weeks back.
The one you sent a pic of the steel you’d put in to show it wasn’t underspecced (let’s not talk about the pier, though – eh?)
THAT flip-job.
Remember it now?
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Hi Dom
Care to answer the question i asked previously that you have been avoiding for a week or so now ?
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I answered previously and will not repeat myself.
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No you haven’t.
The instruction revenue per listing has fallen from £762 to £666.
Your TO friends will know why, as their performance will be measured by these KPI’s and no doubt any bonus/incentives will be affected.
If, as someone has suggested, it is due to customer refunds, then that would be equivalent to giving every customer £100 or £1000 to 1-in-10 of them.
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No you didnt.
Would you like me to repeat it for you ?
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Makes a change.
And when did the function whereby if one person is unavailable another person fills in earn the moniker ‘ Dynamic Diary ‘ ? To the rest of us that’s, err, a normal diary..
Hat tip, Google
1. Wet leisure assistant – Lifeguard
2. Modality manager – Nurse
3. Waste management and disposal technician – Bin man
4. Information adviser – Librarian
5. Direct debit and membership and professional development stock and credit administrator – Customer services administrator.
6. Family protection consultant – Insurance telesales worker
7. Investment development and research analyst – Technical helpdesk worker
8. Worldwide marine asset financial analyst – Accountant
9. Debt management officer / Field force agent – Tax collector
10. Coordinator of interpretive teaching – Museum tour guide
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One spoke out a few weeks ago on Twitter. It was widely shared at the time. He subsequently contacted me directly and verified his employment. That information was shared with broadsheet (Times, Reuters etc), broadcast (BBC) and trade journalists (with his permission).
He was a very frightened man at the time and discussed being both threatened with legal action on one hand and offered major cash incentives for his silence on the other. All verified but, for obvious reasons, not made public. If Purplebricks wishes to take me to court to see that information, they are more than welcome to do so.
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dom-boy
“I think it may be sensible to question wether these mystery disgruntled people are being misquoted.”
MISQUOTED? Your delusion is frankly reaching comedic proportions. From a comment made by an ex-PB LPE here on EYE back in June:
“I am an ex-Purplebricks and worked self-employed. Great company, some great people (not all), plenty of flaws but ultimately No basic, No standard commission structure across the board (every TO paid differently within the same city), No Car, No Phone, No allowance, No professional media equipment (cheap sony camera, no tripod), No holiday pay, No sick pay, No rights, No benefits!”
Doesn’t read to me like he was a happy bunny – which is why he’s now at eMoov, apparently!
#DOMmisery
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Ahh yes the ole reliable source of an anon poster on an industry forum, gotta be legit
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‘Nah, dom-boy – that’s not the one I mean… and you know it.
I mean the one in Hayes that you crowed about here on EYE that your #Fanboy_fave purplepeople had dumped two viewers on you straight away.
The one that went ‘Under Offer’ – then the “Under Offer” vanished… then the listing disappeared off all portals as if my magic. Gone – but certainly not forgotten.
The one you stated the valuer from Connells had been out a couple of weeks back.
The one you sent a pic of the steel you’d put in to show it wasn’t underspecced (let’s not talk about the pier, though – eh?)
THAT flip-job.
Remember it now?
Care to answer?
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Hi Dom
Care to answer the question i asked a week or so ago that you have been avoiding ?
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“Ahh yes the ole reliable source of an anon poster on an industry forum, gotta be legit”
NAH – you’re out by miles, dom-boy. Again.
He’s not “anon” at all, dom-boy – he posted under his name for all to see.
is all this #DOMmisery getting too much for you yet?
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The LPE Territory Owners get £200 per instruction and they get £50 of any instruction from an LPE under them.
That’s why you usually see the Territory Owners sticking around longer term. The turnover of basic LPEs is huge as they don’t earn.
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“Wrong the LPEs have a dynamic diary whereby if an appointment is requested on a specific day and time if the 1st LPE is not available the diary moves to the 2nd and will book accordingly.”
I’m never wrong. You get too restrictive with your diary and you will get the call from the powers that will be. I was told by one former LPE when he started at PB he blocked out certain parts of his diary (so he could take his children to and from school) and his Area Director went into his dynamic diary and openned it all up from 8am to 8pm. This is not BS, this is a true story. Also with your logic another LPE will do your viewings if you are not available? It is not just about market appraisals.
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I can confirm that Keyser is bang on.
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Dom will you lay off the thesaurus you utter Richard Cranium.
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Dom will you lay off the thesaurus you utter Richard Cranium.
‘Dynamic Diary’ is what PB have named it, so leave off the personal abuse thanks as it does get tiresome on here.
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PB can call it what they like.
But, if they dictate when an LPE has to work, by changing diary entries for time booked off – then that is an employer/employee relationship.
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Well you can always take your ball………
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‘leave off the personal abuse‘
What an absolute full bore muppet.
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Have a great weekend
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Hi Dom care to answer the question you have been ignoring for about a week now ?
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‘£150 for an instruction £150 if they sell accompanied viewings and £40 on completion if they use PB conveyancers I believe.’
Now that really is commissery
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So LPEs are comisrable – the irony.
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Ahhh Co-misery …. that wretched, depressing feeling you and your colleagues get when your stingy, niggardly boss humiliates you via group email.
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big banana skin….maybe beginning of slippery slope?
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>”One LPE who will lose commission but insists they correctly supplied the information told EYE:
“How can you go out in confidence on a visit if you don’t know whether you will be paid or not for the listing??
The irony!! Now you know how your vendors feel as once you have left they have no idea if they will sell/get anything either!
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Clearly Kenny Bruce is trying to pass the buck onto the LPE’s with this statement.
If Purplebricks take compliance so seriously and the system is so robust, how is it that a customer can approve their advert and make it ‘Live’ without the necessary identification checks being uploaded? A simple fix going forward surely.
Also, what about all other properties listed prior to the 16th July 2018? Are they ALL compliant? Hmmmm
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Soooooo – same Q as mentioned in previous comments – as self employed people they should have to pay for their own Rightmove account and any other portals they use? same as any self employed company person? why do they appear to have different rules that they can all use PB “account”. Who is policing these things?”
Also any self employed individuals in Scotland will have to be registered by 1st October this year to get a new LARN – Letting Agent Registration Number – and to apply for that you need the new qualification and also meet a host of other criteria as well. Without a LARN you will not be able to work as a letting agent in Scotland. Also the qualification required is not one qualified person per business but per any person who makes any form of decision in the business must hold the qualification.
it.s an expensive qualification to take as well as the time and knowledge it takes to get it. — and that is only one of the requirements for the new registration.
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I understand they do try to do their best to comply with Regs to list a property, but never do checks on buyers! Why are they so unregulated when all we see are threats. Does the NAEA have any jurisdiction or are they waiting til they grow some teeth.
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Purplebricks PLC proudly display the ARLA member firm logo. But are all principles, partners and directors trading under the PURP name ARLA qualified/ members? Nope.
Property Mark is happy to take the fees and appearance monies to praise them for their transparency but, not for the first time, rather reticent when it comes to compliance with its own ‘awkward’ rules it seems.
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You would have thought with how ‘tech savvy’ PB are they would use an online AML check.
Simple easy and cheap!
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smile please
Isn’t Lexis Nexis (owner of Tracesmart) an online AML checker?
If so, you would think PB would manage to get their act together so that a property cannot go live without auto-confirming the AML check process has been completed.
Still, must be easier to blame the staff (self-employed contractors) than admit you can’t organise a p*ss-up in a brewery !
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Surely if they are self-employed then they are using Purple bricks to list the properties they list, therefore every LPE should surely have to pay the costs for Rightmove as they are all separate entities trading under a PB banner?
I have a couple of friends who work for PB that absolutely love working there at the moment, but give it a little while longer til the shine wears off.
I made a prediction five years ago which I am hoping will come true. That for about 2-3 years the listing agents will do well in the market until bad press catches up and people will be heading back in their droves to the high street, which by then may end up generating higher fees as people would rather have the benefit of dealing properly with an estate agent. Again just my opinion and have seen nothing so far that will make me change that as I can see and (to a lesser degree) feel it happening.
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Ummm, data protection?
If these are ‘separate’ companies, yet LPEs are sharing ID and presumably other data, willy nilly with another company.
How many other companies can they share clients’ data with?
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I was literally about to say something very similar. GDPR breach anyone?
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Pockets millions for himself whilst his minions get scraps
Very motivational
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‘EYE was told that commission will be paid on properties made compliant, but we asked for clarification on this.’
Thats not what LPEs have been told…..
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Anon123
Are you able to provide some insight on some of the questions that dompritch134 is unable/unwilling to answer?
Viz…
The instruction revenue per listing has fallen from £762 to £666. (As measured by PB own recently published KPI’s)
If, as someone has suggested, it is due to customer refunds, then that would be equivalent to giving every customer £100 or £1000 to 1-in-10 of them.
Thankyou
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Whistleblowers have protection in law https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing – For the self-employed, The GMB Union is very keen to hear from you and, The Federation of Small Business has an excellent legal advice line.
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Previous comment the business model is not working as they expected – true
TO’s & LBP’s given promises which have not been honoured – fact
Self Employed Agents – who have “bosses” to manage them – written proof – fact
numbers walking out – no longer feeling the love – fact
The list goes on …….I intend to approach a legal expert – 3 years of being employed illegally
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As pointed out earlier…..#canofworms
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You are not alone. The GMB Union are the people who brought the Hermes courier case and will have some current (free) advice. In the meantime, if you are looking to talk to someone in confidence, please give me a call/ email me.
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Good luck, hope it goes well for you.
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Hi
Thanks for posting, very interesting insight. One of the other things I have heard that LPEs find particularly annoying is when someone leaves their propertys are handed over to another LPE to deal with and do viewings on yet not get paid on.
Would drive you crazy to have to deal with a load of overpriced stock and have to spend your money doing viewings on them when you havent been paid a penny for them.
Did you find this the case ?
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VERY insightful. Thank you for your honest comments.
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