Purplebricks has called on the Government to go further in its proposals to clamp down on the industry by requiring agents to publish their commission rates.
It said 93% of ‘traditional’ agents do not publish their fees and should be more transparent.
Purplebricks said that, in contrast, its own rates are published and fully transparent.
The company also called for reforms at the Land Registry.
In a statement last night, Purplebricks said it was “wholly supportive” of most of the Government’s latest recommendations.
It also said that Purplebricks proactively contributed to the Ministry of Housing’s call for evidence into improving the home buying and selling process, and welcomed the findings.
In the statement, Purplebricks said: “We are wholly supportive of the proposal to introduce a mandatory professional qualification for estate agents.
“We already operate under similar regimes in Australia and the United States, and believe it would be a very positive step for the property industry in the UK.
“Our team have extensive backgrounds in traditional agency, averaging over five years and yet all have to go through a rigorous selection and ten day induction programme before becoming a Local Property Expert.
“After successfully completing their training, LPEs go into the field for ten days, before returning for another two days of residential training.
“The two courses together cover over 100 hours of training.
“We also wholeheartedly support initiatives to bring the property industry here into the 21st century with the use of transparent data, standardised metrics and quality controls.
“A major further step in the right direction would be the full digitalisation of data at the Land Registry and across the industry, so we can soon get to the point where every point in the sale or purchase of a property, whether a detached house or a one bedroom flat, is linked by its own Unique Property Reference Number.
“That will be a major advance which will speed up transactions and make for a much more stream-lined and less stressful process for the public. We will continue to actively lobby for this.
“The Government could go further in its proposals and should reconsider requiring all agents to be transparent and publish their commission rates or fee levels.
“Purplebricks’ flat fees £849 and £1,199 for London and surrounding areas are clearly set out on the home page of its website for everyone to see.
“Yet in a recent survey we found that 93% of traditional estate agents do not publish their commission rates or charges on their own website.
“Greater transparency on fees would allow customers to make more informed choices when selecting an agent and remove the unfairness which currently exists, whereby two customers on the same street, using the same agent may be paying different rates of commission for the same service.
“We will continue to proactively engage with Government so that customers get a better deal.”
Don’t rise to this peeps.
I get the feeling PB’s love Seeing us bite 😉
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In other news thank god the NAEA/PropertyMark or whatever else they are called this year are also lobbying the government to introduce legislation to protect the public from that awful pay upfront / deferred payment model where they can be misled into not knowing that they have to pay whether they sell or not.
Transparent my bum
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Dear ArthurHouse02 Sorry I wish I had more restraint but I have to reply to this tosh! Is it a late April Fool’s joke, Purplebricks want more transparency around fees. Give me a break, I have complained to the ASA about their advertising and got nowhere. I wish someone would do a documentary about them, their advertising and their fees.
There was a short article in a television programme but nothing more. I only hope the truth prevails and their shares go down as vendors see them for what they really are.
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They’re learning from eMoov. Exposure by association to credible news. A controversial statement and the press lap it up.
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Maybe PB should put in bold:
WE WILL CHARGE YOU FULL WHACK EVEN WHEN WE FAIL TO SELL YOUR HOUSE?
That would be full transparency….Because last week when we took over a listing that PB had failed to sell, the Vicar and his wife were horrified to find out they would have to pay for PB’s failure? Incidentally, when they phoned to cancel the PB contract, rather than fight to keep the contract like a Full Service Agent would have, they bit their hand off because they then get paid and gleefully directed them on how pay for the failure?
Nice to be transparent about these things?
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It is surely about time that the practice of ‘let’s see what we can get away with’ is done away with. Transparency of fees has long been an issue with Estate agency and it’s high time something is done.
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We’re all for transparency Dom, and as long as its a level playing field there is no issue with that. PB on there side need to make sure that “the fee is payable whether the property sells or not” is prominantly displayed. Also prominantly displayed should be the extras you can pay, viewing package for example, deferred payment penalty fee should the customer not use their preferred solicitor. Having smaller symbols that may display this when you hover over them surely is not offering full enough transparency?
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Quite right Dom.
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Get a room you two.
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‘let’s see what we can get away with’ is done away with‘
Spot the poster who has clearly never set up, nurtured and expanded a credible, successful business.
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Dom,
A couple of years ago I got a double glazing salesman in to quote for new windows for my home (I won’t mention the company – unless you insist) he measured up, sat me down, explained the quality of his windows compared to others and gave me a figure of £10,000, this was way over my budget, which I told him. He then said OK, leave it with me, can I go upstairs and call my manager to see if I can get you a bit of a discount, he came down and said we can do it for £8,500 – Still above my budget which I told him, this happened another two times until his ‘manager’ agreed £5,500, which I excepted, they are a very good window with a good reputation.
My point is this – Will you now find a double glazing forum and give them constant abuse about them being con-men, and how they should show there fees and not negotiate.
Also, I am sure this doesn’t just apply to D/G salesman either (pick a profession).
It’s not that I am against transparency Dom and I have a fee which applies to all my properties but why pick on us Dom, surely there are some other forums you can find to abuse people just trying to make a decent living!
I’ve said to you before, I have actually Googled to see it there is a word for ‘dislike of Estate Agents’, you know like arachnophobia but there isn’t, maybe we could invent one….any ideas anyone?
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@davehedgehog
Did you really want to lump your profession in with DOUBLE GLAZING SALESMEN?
Will you now find a double glazing forum and give them constant abuse about them being con-men, and how they should show there fees and not negotiate.
No as I have no interest in double glazing, but I do in the property industry and by expressing an opinion contrary to others does not mean i dislike them.
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Congratulations Dom, I’m sure you are very popular with double glazing salesman as well now – As usual you tar a whole profession with the same brush. You really are so blinkered.
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Or how about this example, I was in ‘Go Outdoors’ yesterday, they had posters everywhere saying ‘If you can find any product cheaper either online or elswhere’ we will beat it by 10%.
Is this not negotiating?
I could go on Dom but I really can’t be bothered.
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Dom, you say your interest is transparency and Purplebricks, so be a sweetie, pop over to your American cousins and have them update their website FAQ’s. I’ve requested this numerous times.
Someone with your intrepid eye for detail can easily work out which bits are not entirely accurate, starting with the Q.
Is Purplebricks a successful global real estate brand?
Yes. Since it started trading in the UK in 2014, it has grown into a $1.5bn company, operating in the UK, Australia and now launching in the US, starting in California. Purplebricks is selling more houses than any other real estate brokerage in the UK and rapidly growing in Australia (launched in 2016). Our way of operating has already proven highly competitive, delivering a better but less expensive service for buyers and sellers of real estate.
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davehedgehog
“I have actually Googled to see it there is a word for ‘dislike of Estate Agents’, you know like arachnophobia but there isn’t, maybe we could invent one….any ideas anyone?”
OIKOPHOBIA would be my favourite, although it actually means – Fear of home surroundings and household appliances.
You could use a collective noun – e.g. ” A CHAIN of Estate Agents” and the associated phobia for chains – Alysidophobia.
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Dom – When you flip a property do you price it at the bare minimum you need to break even for transparency? Or do you see what you can get away with having sized up the job, eyed the competition and the value of fittings less the cost of refurbishment?
Come on now, be honest.
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Also as for Transparency, can someone for PB or one of their supporters please explain why their London customers have to pay more than the rest of the country. Do Rightmove etc charge more for listing properties in London? Or could there be another,less transparent reason?
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This has to be a joke. Right?
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The publication of prices by estate agents has caused a race to the bottom of the quality spectrum. Last 7 years of it. As a conveyancer it is a real shame to have seen, and still see.
If you want to sell your house for less than 1% then you bring it on yourself, have respect and incentivise the Agent through a reasonable fee. No £495 etc etc.
When any service provider publishes price, inevitably – naive to think it would be the opposite – it means the pubic think price is the only difference, and consequently, it forces everyone to compete on a lower and lower price. Quality suffers.
Now we witness some seriously bad service from estate agents as they cannot afford to offer anything better. We hear far more public complaints about the service they have had too.
Now there is a move to have conveyancers publish prices. Don’t confuse a ‘service’ with a ‘good’. Neither service is a tin of beans.
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Pretty much nail on head there Tim.
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PB are quite right. The majority of us are not transparent at all. In fact most high street agents are about as evasive and non transparent as is possible.
We advertise our fees (currently 1.25%+vat) in our window in two foot letters, on our website and on all our literature. We never drop below this and we never charge more. If I value and list 20 Queens Rd for a car salesman I’ll charge the exactly the same amount as I’ll charge the little old lady at 21 Queens Rd. If you look through the average agents contracts you’ll find a huge inconsistency in their fees. 1% from the guy who knocked you down and drove a hard bargain. 0.75% from the developer you’re trying to get more business from. 1.5% from the first time sellers who never questioned your fees. A drop from your initial 1.5% quote down to 1.2% when a seller says they want to use you but won’t unless you compete with the agent they had round last night.
We all know this is how it works.
Call any high street agent and ask for their fees and you’ll get ten minutes of trained out waffle and evasion tactics. If you don’t do this yourself, make a call to a few competitors and you’ll soon find out they do it. Calls we’ve made indicate that about 90% of agents will not give you a straight answer when asked what their fees are.
“How to handle a fee enquiry” is a common section on any agents training course. I (and probably many of you) have role played and been trained in how to handle and evade a simple enquiry about our fees. Certainly this was the case with 3/4 of the larger corporates I worked for.
So we as an industry of high street agents are anything but transparent. I am….and it’s one of our big selling points. We are clear, honest and charge everyone the same rate.
There’ll be a shed load of comments on here trashing PB but the fact of the matter is that they are so much more transparent with their fees that the high street is. It’s almost laughable looking at some of the comments on here from agents criticizing PB who will without doubt avoid being clear on their own fees today.
Unless we address our own lack of transparency it’s completely hypocritical to be constantly condemning PB.
Look at your own website and then look at PB’s and ask yourself who is the most transparent.
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Seriously, just cross the aisle and join them will you?
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I’ve got no absolutely no intention of doing that. I like my car and my basic too much! I also love my job, my branch, my staff and the NSNF model.
I just always try and see the bigger picture and don’t slate my competition for the sake of it.
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Highly laudable statement Mr Lister. However I think the truth is probably a little more basic.
If you said what you really think about PB then your chances of a bit of nooky on a Friday night would become vanishly small.
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Mr Lister of Gettis, Enderway & Co
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I didn’t realise that traditional agents were actually trained how to keep their fees secret. That really does say something.
I’d be interested to hear the opinions of the regular PB bashers in that respect, especially those who encourage others to complain to the ASA about them.
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“I didn’t realise that traditional agents were actually trained how to keep their fees secret.”
That’s because they are not “trained to keep their fees secret”, ducky.
They are coached in handling Fee enquiries – as it is the Manager/Lister’s job to get the business at a Fee level that keeps them all in jobs.
It is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT that prior to accepting Instructions to market a property, that the Vendor is furnished with all Fees and Charges applicable to the transaction. They sign an Agreement/Cobntract to that effect.
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>Call any high street agent and ask for their fees and you’ll get ten minutes of trained out waffle and evasion tactics.
Sounds very much like they are being trained to keep fees secret until the small print of the contract. Pretty much my experience.
>it is the Manager/Lister’s job to get the business at a Fee level that keeps them all in jobs.
That’s no excuse. That’s pretty much what the cartel of estate Agents fixing prices were saying.
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“>it is the Manager/Lister’s job to get the business at a Fee level that keeps them all in jobs… That’s no excuse.”
I am going to pretend that you’re having the worst off-day that a human could possibly have, and haven’t just proved beyond a shadow of doubt that you understand sweet f***-all about ANY business, let alone Estate Agency – yet feel somehow qualified to discuss it with people who walk in the mocassins all day; every day.
Care to have a go at explaining this latest in a long line of completely insane posts?
Or are you going to waddle off like usual and come back tomorrow like this ridiculous episode never happened?
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The point he makes he succinct and logical, your inane waffle and deflection is the only thing ridiculous here.
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“The point he makes he succinct and logical”
It’s complete b0ll0cks and you know it – seeing as you’re quite the seasoned pro at spouting it yourself, dom-boy.
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PeeBee, you lost all credibility when you said that Estate Agents can be trusted to honestly field enquiries about a property. A direct contradiction of guidance you gave to somebody on another forum back when you weren’t a fraud & a hypocrite. See http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/uk-estate-agents-are-on-the-frontline-of-global-disruption-claim/#comment-70878
You’ll talk about anything other than the actual point being made. MrLister makes a point and all you come back with is the fact that he doesn’t include VAT in his quoted commission rate. Why not challenge him if what he says isn’t true?
This really does speak volumes as does the fact that nobody else has stated his claim is untrue. It really can’t be that hard to explain how a commission is calculated. A few agents actually publish a figure. Some even charge a fixed price. Then others will make it sound like rocket science. I’ve even known one admit they don’t publish a figure because somebody will quote a lower figure.
PropertyPundit even endorses MrListers claim by suggesting he’s betrayed Traditional Agents “Seriously, just cross the aisle and join them will you?”
Speaks volumes. Don’t tell anybody about the tacky side of the business.
>Or are you going to waddle off like usual and come back tomorrow like this ridiculous episode never happened?
I’ll come and go as I please. You will always deflect and try and have the last word so it’s just a waste of time discussing anything with you. Easier to move on after my point has been made. I just won’t compete with the free time you have available and I have more free time than most being retired.
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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ducky
I’m not going over that ground again. You lost that argument but you’re too dense to realise it.
IF there’s a fraud or a hypocrite (or three…) posting on the pages of EYE then I’m ever so sorry to wazz on your puny firework – but one of them ain’t me.
I’m happy – as always – to be judged by the true EYE audience and the site owners.
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“We advertise our fees (currently 1.25%+vat)…”
…and in doing so are thereby in breach of current Legislation.
Maybe you should have stayed awake in those training sessions.
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I admire your transparency in charging everybody 1.25%, however if I owned a million pound home and you came to value it, my first question to you would be how you justify charging me 5 times more than the chap down the road with his shared ownership studio flat.
I say the same thing to all my customers. I do not charge fixed percentage fees as my overheads are no different on a £5,000,000 property than a £250,000 property.
I will quote them a fee based on the value of the property, how long I think it will take to sell (and therefore how realistic I think their expectations are) and their situation.
I’ll be up front about it, as competitive as possible with it, and they won’t pay it until it completes.
If they ask my guys for a fee when they call up, they’ll tell them the above. Because it’s true. Is that evasive? I think it’s as honest as we can possibly be.
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>I will quote them a fee based on the value of the property, how long I think it will take to sell (and therefore how realistic I think their expectations are) and their situation.
>If they ask my guys for a fee when they call up, they’ll tell them the above.
So do you tell people you charge them more because they have unrealistic expectations?
Would you say that’s typical of Estate Agents in general?
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I tell them my costs are directly related to how long it will take to sell.
If they agree with my valuation and recommended asking price then there’s a good chance I can shave a little more from my fee.
If they ask me to advertise 100k above my valuation then I’m gonna be more bullish with my fees as its going to take lots of weeks of marketing and phone calls and viewings to achieve that sale.
And yes I’ll discuss all of that in my initial meeting. It’s all about transparency in my fee structure and also helps with managing their price expectations.
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That’s all very admirable Mr Lister.
So being that you openly charge 1.25% do you think its fair that your favourite firm of uploaders quote average agency fee’s at 1.5% as a comparison? Because I don’t. Not when their own conveyancing firm reckon it’s 1.3 % and even that’s wrong. Wheres the transparency in that?
PB need to be careful what they wish for.
If we all disclose our fee’s overnight, the whole PB model falls flat on its **** when the public realise that they aren’t making much of a saving at all.
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Mr Lister as a professional agent i am sure that you know that you should not quote + vat. Are you really an agent?
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RentBoy – Was about to ask the same thing, as I have long suspected Mr Lister isn’t quite who he/she/they say they are.
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Hi MrLister,
I don’t think anyone disputes that PB publish their fee clearly, I think the bone of contention is that it is not made overly apparent to their customers that the quoted fee is payable regardless of the outcome, which to my mind is a little misleading.
For example, if I went to the shops and saw a bag of crisps advertised for £1, I would expect it to have crisps inside. I would be disappointed if having spent my £1 and upon opening the bag it transpired to be empty, and no refund was offered.
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Dom_P
“I don’t think anyone disputes that PB publish their fee clearly”
I think you will find that to be ‘a debatable statement’ to say the least, Sir.
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Sorry PeeBee, I realise the ambiguity in what I wrote!
I merely meant that it is widely known that their ‘headline’ charge is £849/£1199 as it is displayed on the front page of their site, although I completely understand that their are ‘hidden’ extras and that you are potentially paying for nothing.
My post was intended to support the general consensus that PB are bad eggs in my opinion.
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Mr Lister, being as perfect as you are at displaying your fees, you might want to know you’re displaying them inaccurately.
For transparency it is advised by TS/legislation you advertise your fees INCLUDING vat and cite an example if someone sold at x amount, what their fee inclusive of vat would be. Our contracts fully state this.
So for example, you should be advertising your fees at 1.5% including VAT.
There’s a very good reason agents negotiate on fees, competition/protecting their area, cost of marketing the specific property, what will be involved and being able to physically run a business. If you never budge on your fees, what is your justification for charging someone 1.5% @ £800,000 (£12,000 inc vat) compared to someone selling at £125,000 (£1,875 inc vat)?
We adjust our fees depending on the price being sold at against the level of work required to sell the property. For example, we sold a dilapidated country home for a dear late client of ours. She was pretty much deaf, the house was a mess, barking dogs, tv blaring out, a huge house that took over an hour and a half per viewing. It took over 50 viewings to sell that property plus many follow up appointments for builders, surveyors, meetings and advise with family. We didn’t even break even on that property but our fee was lower than your standard fee as the price of the property was high, but it’s about service, reputation and recommendation. There’s not a snowballs chance in hell that PB or any online agent would have put the work in we did to sell that property.
(edit I see it’s been mentioned already by Mr PeeBee 😀 )
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So why don’t PB publish their true sold figures if they want transparency for the public. They have to be the biggest scammers in the market with pay for no result. While they are at it the government should be looking into how on-liners are manipulative to the point of desceit?.
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Transparency of fees would only work for like for like service between all estate agents.
As standard I offer nice glossy details. Pro photography. Matterport tour. Floor plans. Drone pictures. A professionally written set of details. Portal advertising. Social media advertising. Local newspaper advertising. Multi office advertising. I have the best staff. All on no sale no fee.
The agent down the road charge 0.5% takes pictures on his iPhone and just list room sizes on portals.half the time the office is closed.
Can you see why it’s best to talk with the seller to educate them on the difference?
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It’s odd but reading the genuine PB reviews, it seems that a number of customers did not feel PB had been open and transparent about the fees and T&Cs. Even made it on to national tv and hammered with fines in Australia.
I wonder where they get the gumption from to broadcast the above message.
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Purplebricks (hereinafter known as NOT Estate Agents) Let’s be absolutely crystal clear, Purplebricks are not Estate Agents, they may well try to mimic estate agency to mask the fact that they are in fact an overpriced Property Listing Service.
To clarify further, Purplebricks (who are NOT Estate Agents) charge for NOT Selling Your Home? …..that’s correct, they charge for FAILURE.
I have spent over 30 years as a High Street Estate Agent selling properties and I have no hesitation in saying that I do not advertise a table of fees as I am not a Burger Chain. I need to see the property I may be asked to market/sell, understand my clients needs and decide how much work may be involved in securing the best possible result for my client. After considering those main points and a number of others I am then able to provide clients with a clear/written explanation of fees/terms/contract. The client can then decide whether they wish to use my services or not.
High Street Estate Agency is NOT represented by Purplebricks or any other Onliner Only Property Listing Service.
It is long overdue that a clear distinction is made between High Street Estate Agency and other Purplebricks type Burger Chain Property Listing Services. Our Industry must NOT be dumbed down to the level of Purplebricks and others. So, by all means let’s have a clear distinction between Our Industry and the likes of Purplebricks.
If you want the 99p Property Burger equivalent then as long as that distinction is clearly explained to clients including the fact that they will pay for FAILURE upfront, then they know where to go. To be fair, at least the 99p Drive-thru Burger Chain gives you a burger, imagine if you paid them 99p in advance, drove up to the window and then they told you “Sorry, NO burger this time!”, and then you simply had to drive on?!
I and many other estate agents have been successful in the Estate Agency Industry because we take the time to understand what our clients needs are and work damn hard to deliver on them.
It’s grossly insulting that the 99p Property Listing Companies think their “take the money & run business model” is in any way related to what I and other High Street Estate Agents do.
So, “Dear Government….” by all means look at Our Industry however please make the clear distinction between what Our Industry does and what those like Purplebricks (& other Online Only Property Listing Companies who claim to be estate agents) actually do.
” Dear Purplebricks….. if you want to begin to be considered as any kind of “real” Estate Agent …..1st off – STOP charging for FAILURE! In the interim, PROVIDE open/honest evidence of how many properties your company ACTUALLY sells to prove that your business is NOT just a Get rich quick scheme for its owners & investors. Please also explain to your customers, the general public, myself and the distinctively different High Street Estate Agency Industry …..why Purplebricks charge for FAILING TO SELL your clients homes? ”
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Absolutely 100% spot on GPL.
99% of people on here will agree with your statements.
As for the Usual Suspects (the Dom, the Duck), nothing will ever change their minds, but it so amusing to watch them trolling along, defending the indefensible.
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Best post today GPL.
Good practise and common sense.
Contact a builder and ask him what he’ll charge to build an extension. Will he quote £5000?
Will he heckerslike! He’ll suss out the job depending on the costing of that particular job.
Same with an agent. Darn stupid to quote e.g. 1.25% across the board.
Each client, each instruction and each fee are unique. Charge accordingly.
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well said.
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So purplebricks will be eager to publish the exact amount they have managed to get from people who have never sold yet still had to pay their fees?
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@dom & @duck
Transparency – Why do you never reply or acknowledge, when I post, that PB incurs their clients up to approximately £300 MORE in solicitor costs when they refer people to a conveyancer. The client can avoid this charge by going directly TO THE SAME CONVEYANCER.
This cost is added so PB earns more money per case as they know they can’t make money charging £849 etc for selling properties.
They also hold people to ransom by forcing hem to incur this cost if they want the deferred payment option.
I won’t hold my breath for a reply…
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dompritch134
APRIL 11, 2018 AT 07:43#6
It is surely about time that the practice of ‘let’s see what we can get away with’ is done away with. Transparency of fees has long been an issue with Estate agency and it’s high time something is done.
dompritch134 – When you add what you paid for a property, what you spent on the property and what profit you stand to make from the property on your property details and in the property description of the adverts you use to sell and profit from property then I/we might not scoff so much at your holier than thou attitude.
You really need to engage brain before you run your mouth.
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I’m happy to publish my fee for selling as negotiable and subject to a market valuation. What’s the problem? Just because the PB model is based on published fixed rates does’nt mean we should all be forced to do the same and potentialy give PB an advantage.
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FOR SALE BY OWNER:
Firms such as Purple Tricks, No moovement, House Pimple etc are glorified FSBO sites. The operators should Be Open and Honest About what you get with their For Sale By Owner Service and not mislead the public. #misleadery.
These FSBO sites are being unravelled for what they are, thanks to open forums such as property eye, estate agent today and social media.
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FULL ESTATE AGENT SERVICE WITH VIEWINGS:
All Full Service Estate Agents should also list their fees on their website, office windows etc. We know estate agency fees could could vary depending on time spent on the marketing and how much is being spent for a specific property such as magazines, video walkthroughs, interactive floorplans etc.
Full Service Estate Agency Businesses could possibly advertise their fees as a range. E.g. Fee ranging from from 1.5% to 2.5% depending on estimated time spent but our typical fee is “x”.
What are the thoughts of other FULL ESTATE AGENCY SERVICE providers on advertised fee range???
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