A new trade body – and potential property portal – is set to go ahead after a preliminary meeting yesterday.
The prospective founder members of the Charter for Independent Estate and Letting Agents, all active owner-managers of independent firms, unanimously signed a Letter of Intent to move forward with formal inauguration, expressing total support for the idea based on what was presented to them.
The next meeting, an all-day session to review details of the proposed articles, membership offerings and contracts, will be held on Wednesday, February 22.
The names of the ten founder members are:
Donald Collins, Go View London http://www.goviewlondon.co.uk/
Tom Bloomfield, Bloomfield Grey http://bloomfieldgrey.co.uk/
Richard à Brassard, Courtenay www.courtenay.co.uk
Kristjan Byfield, Base Property Specialists www.baseps.co.uk
Nick Goldsworthy/Andy Ferguson, Logic Estates www.logicestates.co.uk
Peter Wetherell, Wetherell of Mayfair www.wetherell.co.uk
Jay Chitnis, HJC Estates www.hjc.co.uk
Perry Power, Power Bespoke www.powerbespoke.co.uk
Luke Gidney, Let Leeds www.let-leeds.com
Simon Gresswell, Finlay Brewer www.finlaybrewer.co.uk
There is a waiting list of 16 further agency owners who have asked to be considered for any un-taken positions in what is aimed to be a total of 12 founding members.
Two remaining positions are being held for female founders, and it is CIELA’s hope that at least one but preferably two women founder members apply to join, and to that end they welcome any applications either by email to club.secretary@ciela.co.uk or via the registration form on the website at www.ciela.co.uk/register
The question of whether or not a challenger portal might be launched was not discussed at this meeting, but it was re-confirmed by the club founder, software specialist Charlie Wright, that even if the club succeeds in gathering the required support to launch, and even if members demand a vote and vote in favour of launching a new portal, such a vote is, at the very soonest, one year away, and a portal offering does not constitute part of the launch plans of the CIELA organisation.
Wright said after the meeting: “The overwhelming topic of discussion was the lack of success of, or total support for, any organisation launched to date, and how to overcome the understandable cynicism within the industry, having had its fingers burnt so often in the past.
“The question raised was, with the required initial membership structure of founder members, regional, county and London borough officers which would total almost 100 club officers, what would be necessary to win the majority support of the approximately 15,000 small independent agency businesses across the country.”
Wright said that the biggest question yesterday was: “Will independent agents unite swiftly in majority numbers?”
Wright said he outlined his strategy for overcoming this challenge, and claimed that he has “a detailed eight-point plan to ensure that every independent agent in the country will want to join from the outset” – a plan he will present in detail at the next meeting.
Looks like a list of ‘Easymatch.com’ members. Charlie, nice guy, lives in a pokey little flat above a shop with his massive dog, with a stalling business looking to revolutionise the world.
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“Charlie, nice guy” he has the basics exactly right!
I have a drawer full of business card from this industry, the only people who make it on to my mobile phone and stay there are all nice, decent and honest. I don’t judge people by the size of their home, the size of their dog or the claimed or apparent success of their business.
Attempting a fix for a broken industry industry is something to respected.
Wait till he has done a bit more than start before you knock him too hard for trying
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The question raised was… what would be necessary to win the majority support of the approximately 15,000 small independent agency businesses across the country.”
A miracle. Of biblical proportions.
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Good luck to them. I am pleased to see someone trying to draw everyone together for All their Agents Mutual benefit although I agree that this would be a massive ‘David V Goliath’ undertaking and requires some truly exceptional new initiatives.
A suggestion. Change the name. It has to be agent and client centric.
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My favourite post of the year so far!
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A big barrier could be trying to pull agents in from different softwares as Charlie has a software. One portal with a big interest in some prime softwares could be a barrier or expensive route to gaining monthly data which could burn heavy funds.
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There are inconsistencies in the message that CIELA have issued as to what this is all about – such as this from the #Open Letter’ on their website:
(Para 1) ‘Would you ever consider uniting… in the fight against corporate domination and unfair practice’
(Para 5) ‘We would not presume to… be trying to encourage better practice’
I guess the fun bit to watch is gonna be when they start deciding the minutiae – which might be getting somewhere near to job done around the time of my now-galloping-toward me retirement, around 2030ish. Give or take.
Oh, joy.
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Here is my prediction.
They will not get “Massive” numbers on board but will launch anyway.
First off how are they going to find members?
They have no reps no advertising budget it is all word of mouth and generosity of free editorials.
Second of all why will anybody join? Right off the bat the main players are preferred customers of Charlies! Does not look good.
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From my limited experience of estate agency (just a few months) I can see that this is yet another slap in the face for estate agents. It’s nice that Charlie Wright has set up CIELA with his friends and I hope they can do well with this without ripping of any agent in the process.
I still don’t know what they are hoping to achieve because that’s never been made clear. If it had been made clear then maybe more respected members of estate agency would have been chosen to attend any meeting and therefore been selected on merit rather than Charlie inviting his best friends to join up. For example, we all knew Donald Collins from Go View London would be joining from the start. Hands up if you knew that? 😉
This venture is not independent, it has no direction, no trust and does not inspire a single grain of confidence in me.
From my limited experience in online marketing, I can see that with the exception of possibly one of the names listed above, none of the actual businesses make any money of significance. I would rather have agents coming together as a collective, generating leads, making a lot of money instead of spending it and be owned and run by everyone – not controlled by a handpicked few. This would all be free, no tie ins, no money, no contracts and no time needed. The collective could make and retain a lot of this profit with the main aim of setting up a portal – with every single agent in the UK on board. This would be a long, long way off, but a distinct possibility – again, it would cost the agent nothing.
From my 20 years experience on this Earth, I can see that anyone who joins up is a fool. It’s very simple that this is ‘Groundhog Day’ (credit: Smile Please) but this time, it wont even take off.
But good luck doing what you are doing.
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20yrs old, a few months of estate agency experience, limited online marketing experience. A voice for the masses!
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I’ve never implied that I wanted to be a voice for the masses. If you read my previous posts about setting up a mutual it clearly sets out some of the aims. The main aim being lead generation and making money, the end goal being controlling all of our data and setting minimum standards. When it comes to setting up a mutual for the benefit of all, I have done similar in the online flower delivery and loans/mortgages/life insurance sectors – extremely successfully and on my own and, might I add, for not very much starting budget.
The niches I worked in were dominated by bigger players than most estate agency brands could ever be. The online lead generation market was therefore a saturated one and only something like this could have worked – it did and very successfully.
I’ve started working on my agency full time a week ago after having become ARLA qualified a few months ago. At the end of 2017 I will come back on here and tell you the name my agency.
I offered to set up a landing page and email all of the UK’s estate agencies (big and small) to see what kind of interest we could generate. I offered to either do that on my behalf or on anyone else’s behalf (PIE members). I understand I am new here and do not command the respect some of the other members do. In that same comment section Smile Please put forward Robert May’s name to lead some sort of collective. Which I agreed with at the time.
I have no hidden agenda and my idea of a collective is clear. That should be a starting point for Charlie. My comments above are valid and reasonable. CIELA will not work where founder members have hidden agendas. It will not work unless each member feels like they have an equal share in the running of the collective. It will not work if Charlie Wright runs it as he does not have the required skill – that is my opinion.
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As grouchy as Mr Harvey can be on occasion i think it may possibly have been an ironic comment, as in he feels a lot of “agents” today are young and think they know it all.
Well done on launching, for 20 you seem pretty switched on, good luck to you. Do keep us updated on your progress and do not be afraid to ask questions.
In regards to age …. How many of us have problems sorting out software, technology, setting up a surround sound system?
Who do we inevitably turn to at home? – Our kids! yet we do not offer them the same respect in the business place, what some lack up in experience they make up in new ideas.
For our industry to survive and evolve and still be profitable we do need to listen to the “Kids” and adapt their ideas to our experience.
I will give you a perfect example, we use video email, i was at an event the other week and it cropped up in conversation the older generation hated the idea, dismissed it out of hand lots of silly reasons it was a bad idea.
I shook my head in disbelief it has won us (and saved us) countless instructions. but because they do not understand it they dismiss it.
Look at new ideas on their merit and adapt them.
Having said that celia or whatever its called is flawed in my humble opinion 😉
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‘possibly have been an ironic comment’
Yes, I see that now, thank you 🙂
You’re absolutely correct about the tech bit Smile Please. I know a lot of great developers and they can do some amazing things. From my point of view no one in online marketing has ever taken on estate agency. That’s because online marketers, by definition, do not want to set up a bricks and mortar business.
Skip hire is an example. None of the top results in Google will be results from actual businesses who employ drivers driving around unloading skips. They are just generating leads and sales and ordering skips from their preferred (cheapest and nearest) supplier and pocketing the difference. Another example is Apple Yard Flowers who I worked for briefly – you wouldn’t know by looking at their site that they are an online marketing company.
Google chesterfield sofa – top result is someone who I know, he does NOT own a sofa company, but he DOES make a few thousand pounds per day 🙂
My point is, tech is real and it’s entering into estate agency and I’m glad you are embracing it.
In regards to CIELA – I don’t support it because there are better people out there that can do a better job. Peter Rollings for example… I only mentioned my age because at 20, even I know that. Look at what he has done and then compare it with what Charlie has done.
Agents (like Donald Collins) that support it are in it for their own gain but will make out it is for the good of estate agency. If not then tell me Donald, do you really think Charlie is the best man for the job?
By the way, thank you SP for your kinds words and yes, I won’t be afraid of asking questions.
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*Rollins
Apologies for that.
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*Rollings
🙂
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Sorry LondonR90 – as Smile pointed out, nothing but a friendly jibe. Call it sour grapes that yet another youngster is showing me up.
As for CIELA, I’m not invested in the idea or its chances of success. I think it is too late in the game to introduce a new player and expect them to significantly contribute to its result. Plenty of factors lead me to believe this will be a bit of a flash in the pan but as always I take my hat off to those trying to change the industry for the better.
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You have hit a nail on the head with that comment, smile please – however there are many thumbs that will have taken a blow as well!
Folks have short memories. They were that person once.
It was two weeks before my seventeenth birthday when I negotiated my first ‘sale’ of a property. I felt like Jack-The-Lad.
Too close for my liking to forty years later, I still get that feeling when I agree terms with a buyer for their new home.
Too many quickly shrug off the opinions of those that either appear to have limited knowledge or experience – or those who prefer to be known on sites such as EYE by a nom-de-clavier. To that attitude, I have previously posted the following:
Take these three scenarios:
I am a Junior Neg with an Independent Agent. I have an opinion.
I am a Regional Director with a Corporate Agent with 400 UK branches. I have an opinion.
I am a Global Director of a major professional body with over 100,000 Members. I have an opinion.
Which of these three individuals opinion would carry more weight in your opinion, Mr (name omitted to avoid the person being further embarrassed by their attitudinal deficiencies) – and why?
I never did get an answer, by the way…
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If you’re asking me, PeeBee, I’d go with the latter.
If you’re not asking me, I’d still choose the latter!
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Can I ask why you would go with that latter ‘person’ and not one of the two others, mrharvey?
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mrharvey – it is a genuine question which I have a very good reason to ask. I really would appreciate your – or anyone else’s – input.
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Dear Smile Please. Can I contact you directly in some way for advice.
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No problem, You can find me on twitter @InvisibleWeek or email me invisibleweek@outlook.com but twitter is best.
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I completely agree, for me this just seems to be a few people, some with no doubt a commercial end game, running around saying lets do something about… err something.
PeeBee has already highlighted an extract about “corporate domination” I would ask “what corporate domination might that be”? Rightmove? Good luck changing that. It certainly can’t be corporate estate agents as the last one at Countrywide kindly turn the lights out when you leave.
Anyway I can’t see it has much appeal in this unless of course the first meeting is being arranged by Wetherell’s and they’ve reserved a table at Scott’s opposite.
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How very sexist
A chest beeting exercise by the boys AGAIN
Lets leave a couple of spots for the ladies – oh who by the way make up the vast majority of people working in agency
And why only independents?
Any organisation wanting to represent an industry should represent the whole of the workforce in that industry if improving standards, transparency and public awareness is the key
Oh sorry isn’t that the NAEA ???? Oh hang on that’s is run by blokes too
Things do need to change !!!!!
Good luck with the project boys
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“How very sexist”
And your comment isn’t, somehow?
With respect you need to do some research on the subject before asking questions that are clear as crystal to those that have taken some basic effort to follow the very short journey that this ‘Club’ have taken so far.
There are issues – chinks in the armour – entire buttresses missing from a wall with potentially unstable foundations…
…but I would suggest that sexism is not far off the last thing on the list I’ll be taking them to task over.
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Nice one.
Treacle !
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The article I put forward to PIE and which they decided to publish just before Christmas was written prior to ever-speaking to Charlie Wright, or even hearing about him. If you look at my Linked-In profile you will see a range of business related articles that I have published and it is something I proactively undertake.
I have absolutely no prior connection to Charlie and use none of his software.
Do I think though that someone with a software background who can aggregate a mass membership, with a background in the Industry but not directly linked to one company and who has contacts to gain initial traction with the idea is the best person to take it forward – well yes I do.
As opposed to tapping away on a keyboard under an alias every time an article appears relating to the ‘online-only’ threat and how it will change the industry; this is a great opportunity for agents to come together and share a marketing budget to extol the virtues and benefits of full-service agency in a similar way to the press advertising body, or the radio advertising body.
Furthermore, this organisation can also help hold the advertising merits of ‘online-only’ agencies to account and balance the playing field for all agents with an aggregated marketing and research spend on this very issue.
My agency employs 12 individuals, and as we grow and invest in our business over the years to come I see my time involvement in the above organisation as an attempt to help protect the market conditions in which we operate, ensuring the continual success of my business for the next 30-50 years as it passes to new generations.
I hope fellow agents see this opportunity too, and register their interest to give this organisation an opportunity to prosper. If it doesn’t we can all just provide a running commentary as the market moves away from us.
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Probably doomed to failure as suggested by AgencyInsider.
If Charlie really does have the intentions and talent, together with the support of an ‘inner circle’ I believe those endowments would be better addressed to joining and improving NAEA and then backing “On The Market” both of which already have established followings, but both off which lack direction.
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Should change your name to “Voice of reason”
Sadly all three of these “groups” are in it for their own gain not the industries so will never happen.
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As I see it, the real problem with the NAEA is that some members (the online listers) are allowed to publicly ridicule and rubbish the businesses and practices of other members. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think that is good for the industry overall and certainly not good for the NAEA. You don’t see it taking part in other professional body organisations where members are encouraged to show mutual respect for each other, even if they do compete for the same customers.
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Out of interest (and a bit of sport)
Would you expect the the companies that have broken cover to be free of portal juggling?
I hear our resident Rottweiler is currently running an investigation on all concerned, I assume Redress etc is a given??
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Never going to happen.
But then I bet against Leicester winning the league, the UK remaining in the EU and Hilary to be President so in some weird reverse Midas Touch Charlie’s got the endorsement he needs and this is clearly going to be a massive success.
Agents working together on any co-operative basis has to be a good thing but whenever I see things like this I can never get away from the People’s Front of Judea scene.
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Whaley that made me smile however the Romans ultimately crucified any dissenters! That is why agents must use existing legislation if they are to rebel.
See that clip from the Life of Bryan below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE
Brilliant, I have not seen this in years.
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Hi folks,
Can everyone and anyone reading this just take a look at the second story down on PIE today……the one about little Florence. Please….
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Spot on and cheers for drawing attention to it.
Really rams everything that is important home.
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Just read this heart rendering posting by PIE about Florence.
Come on everyone post the donation link to your FB, G+, and twitter accounts.
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We are making tomorrow #FlorenceDay on EYE.
We want every reader who comes to the site during Friday to donate a minimum of £5 to the crowdfunding effort for little Florence.
When you see the tweets with the #FlorenceDay hashtag please do your bit by retweeting. Get the link to the story onto your Facebook pages. Email the link to your address book.
Time is not on Florence’s side. We need to act and we need to act NOW!
Help us to make #FlorenceDay a fantastic example of the generosity of the industry.
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It is early days, but the premise and objectives should be enticing to every independent agent in the UK. Genuine, unilateral support has been missing from our industry and this is one of the key objectives as we move forward. With the support and insight of independent agents up and down the UK we can create an organisation by and for agents that should succeed where others have failed.
There have been a lot of misleading offerings in recent years and industry-wide frustration at the current representative bodies and it is therefore understandable that many may be cautious of cynical of this idea. What is vital, is that this proposal will not proceed unless substantial support is achieved from across the marketplace so it is really up to everyone. If you want CIELA you have a group of incredibly passionate, hands-on, owner/managers from across the country that understand every aspect, nuance, frustration and hurdle that the industry and marketplace has to throw at them. We understand what the current failings are and what, we think, is needed to change this. It won’t be perfect from day dot, and it won’t completely transform the market overnight but it could be a genuine, powerful and passionate voice for independent estate & letting agents across the UK.
We’re passionate to support you and our industry……..but only if you want that.
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