A new business is getting set for national launch that will help vendors choose an agent and then manage the relationship.
Agency Negotiation has been founded by Chris Arnold, whose background includes working for an agent in London.
He said the business is in the process of a soft launch and has already handled a number of sales.
He hopes for a full launch this side of Christmas.
He said: “The twin goals are to help home owners choose a better estate agent, and to motivate estate agencies to achieve more for themselves and the vendor.
“The inspiration to found Agency Negotiation was the statistic – from movewithus – that 45% of home owners chose the wrong estate agency at their first time of trying, and only 28% manage to negotiate a discount on the fees.
“This realisation that consumer knowledge is low when dealing with any estate agency, together with apparent frustration of many agents that an instruction comes down to highest valuation/lowest fee, prompted me to provide a solution that can offer a win/win scenario.
“Vendors have the support of an independent, unbiased and knowledgeable partner that can effectively counsel them on their choice of estate agency and manage the subsequent relationship.”
Sellers will pay £250 on completion of the sale, while agents will pay nothing.
But will agents welcome an intermediary, or regard it as interference in their business?
Arnold said: “I do get asked that quite often. But what agents will get from the service is a motivated seller who will not just be looking at the fee, but at the quality of the agent’s business.
“Although a vendor is likely to be attracted by our ability to negotiate fees, we certainly have no intention of cutting them to the bone. It is more a case of knowing that the chosen agent will do as much as possible for that fee.”
He said that review sites and services such as estateagent4me and netanagent do set out to point the home owner in the direction of a successful agency.
“However, they do not find out the back story as to why any agency is successful.
“They also leave the vendor on their own, to negotiate from a position of weakness.
“Review sites rely on authenticity, but even where the reviews are genuine and positive, they rarely result from an earlier informed decision.
“It’s not a simple matter of algorithms to decide which estate agency is most suited to a particular vendor. A hands-on approach to this complicated process is required.”
On the Agency Negotiation site are some interviews with agents that sellers are invited to listen to, as a way for them to appraise agents.
Further interviews are scheduled with agents at the likes of Knight Frank, Kinleigh Folkard Hayward, Stirling Ackroyd and Chestertons.
Latest mad offering!
Can anyone give an example of a new “service” or product that has truly taken off within the last 10 years excluding portals or software providers (CRM’s) that have helped the industry and made a profit?
We must hear half a dozen stories a week on the latest revolutionary idea. Almost all i would say fail.
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Wry smile knowing that someone will want to have a go.
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Here are some excerpts from his website.
“Let’s be clear. Estate agencies are essentially the same”
“they all market the property in much the same way and they could all sell your house.”
“Estate agencies do not work in the best interests of the home owner unless they are motivated”
“Estate agencies are right up there with bankers and politicians as the most mistrusted of professions and, in many cases, the reputation is well justified”
Hands up who wants to support him?……
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Nothing like biting the hand that feeds!
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The hand that feeds is the vendor!
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This is a cracking quote:
“We all know estate agencies by reputation – shiny suited, flash-car driving, pushy & desperate. Way down the list of most respected service provider”
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I really hope I get a call from him to “negotiate a better fee” for his client. I will not drop a penny – just to see him squirm!…
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I think we should form a cartel (well keeps Trevor happy) and all agree that should he approach us our fee to him is a straight 2%
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I’m in!
(comment to short, so adding this line)
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Happy to oblige
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So Chris won’t be making recommending his previous employer? I can’t think of an agent who hasn’t seen a for sale board go up and say to themselves, we never got asked. There is a very good reason why and Chris will not make any difference.
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Probably can’t remember who said ‘previous employer’ was, Woodentop – apparently it was AT LEAST quarter of a century ago!
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I’d be interested to hear why you imagine your or any agency doesn’t get invited. Bet it’s not for the reasons I think!
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In the immortal words of Duncan bannatyne .. It’s not a business .. Amoot
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Ah but who will help negotiate the fee with the agency negotiator? Maybe I’ll start offering that service – ka-ching!
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‘Agency Negotiation has been founded by Chris Arnold, whose background includes working for an agent in London.’
What did he do exactly……..clean the floors?
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Not sure when this was meant to be – his profile has him in alternate employment from 1990 onwards.
Pre-decimal, perhaps…?
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Not sure I appreciate the term ‘skulking around’ from the Jihadi John of the estate agency sector! Take off the mask PeeBee
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It’s not a pretty sight – no-one will thank you if I did.
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AHEM!
With respect, this “new business” has been skulking around now for the neck end of two years.
Mr Arnold is a frequent ‘contributor’ to discussions – and I am pleased to say that we have seen eye to eye on at most one occasion.
I would ask whether Mr Arnold was known in a previous incarnation as ‘Unhappy Chappy’, later to become ‘Happy Chappy’ – as his business plan and remit is more than a tad familiar to those who debated with this particular poster.
All I will say is I very much look forward to our first – and, without a shadow of doubt, only – ‘negotiation’ with the chap(py).
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let me get this right…
to get all these instructions I have to: present myself to someone who doesn’t know the house or the local market, reduce my fees and do more for his property all the while he sits around waiting for his money I do all the work.
Motivated sellers will not use this. Cheapskates will use this, ‘only 250 quid and i’ll get a discount on my fees and my house will sell ‘fast’. The Estate Agent is the only one who loses out so I personally will not be entertaining a call from this company.
but it is a case of too many middle men all want their slice of the pie. vendor, solicitor, agent, surveyor etc.
plus how are they going to manage the relationship with my vendor? do I call them when someone wants a viewing? do I have to do them a report on the property every week too? If I have feedback from a viewing do I call the them? doubtful.
MONEY FOR NOTHING! NON STARTER!
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Not interested in the property or the local market. That’s presumably your expertise! All we’re interested in is whether your agency is better than the rest. You don’t have to reduce your fees. In fact, we’d prefer it if you had the ability to determine why your agency is worth more. The reason you’re doing all the work is that the vendor, should they decide you are capable, is paying you! Not that you’re interested, but to make it clear, the relationship remains with an agency and the vendor. We’re here to safeguard the interests of the vendor.
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“You don’t have to reduce your fees. In fact, we’d prefer it if you had the ability to determine why your agency is worth more.”
Okay… so… your call to Vendor goes something like this, then?:
‘Great news! Mr Vendor – got you the best in the business. Bad news is that they are 20% more expensive that the next “intelligent fish” and I can’t get them down a penny from what you could instruct them for yourself.
Such is life – at least I tried!
Now – where would you like me to send my bill…?’
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Appreciate its stating the obvious, but if you need a third party to manage your relationship with your clients, you are most definitely in the wrong job.
I wonder if other fields of work suffer from as much attempted piggybacking onto our business from parasitic chancers as estate agency does?
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Not quite sure you understand that we act on behalf of the vendor, not the agency, so why would that result in an agent being in the wrong job?
Might our apparent piggybacking onto your business be otherwise described as a judgement call!
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Apologies for the delayed response. Looking for the nearest bridge, but I’m over it now:)
Let’s start with vendors, first. Are they experienced in determining which estate agency is the best? Do they understand the sales process & how some estate agencies can manipulate a valuation/fee to the vendors detriment? Are they practiced at negotiating an estate agency fee or finding flaws in a contract? Will they bother to contact an agency that is not delivering on its promises, or simply consign its reputation to an ever-growing group of under-achievers? Will they understand what is happening when a slow moving property suddenly manages to acquire more than one interested buyer? Will they know which agency is in it for the money & which is going to help? You’re not going to tell them- somebody should!
One previous post from these respondents:who is apparently “desperate for our industry to be recognised as professional & trustworthy”. How’s that going?
Let’s take the agency side: From our perspective, it matters little whether any agency condescends to work with us – plenty more, intelligent fish in the pond. But, let me be clear, why would it matter whether a vendor negotiated the agency fee or a third party did the same? Oh, that’s right. I mentioned vendors weren’t very practiced at negotiating. Since we use a sliding scale fee structure, if the agency achieves more they benefit etc. etc. We aren’t here to make life hard for average agencies. We don’t want to work with them and by the sound of it, it’s mutual.
Those agencies that are proud of their business, work hard to improve and place the interests of the vendor foremost are the future.
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“From our perspective, it matters little whether any agency condescends to work with us – plenty more, intelligent fish in the pond.”
Erm… hang on. From your website:
“Here’s what we can do for you:
Help you select the most suitable estate agency when putting your home up for sale. This is a critical decision in achieving a successful sale.”
So… the “most suitable” part goes out of the window if your “negotiations” don’t quite get the result you want/need, then?
ANY “intelligent fish” will do.
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Most suitable agency is determined by many factors apart from the valuation and fee. Primarily, one that we can work with to ensure the homeowner achieves a premium price and the agency receives a fee that reflects its success, or lack thereof. What you seem to be suggesting is that your agency never has, or ever will drop their fee for a vendor? If that’s the case, I admire your principles but again ask what’s the difference between the vendor negotiating the instruction and ourselves. I am perfectly happy for any estate agency to earn their big fee, but not at the expense of some unaware homeowner. We could quite easily say don’t bother with your local agents, go with Purple Bricks instead. Just happen to think that most of the high Street agencies are better. If a vendor is happy to pay our fee for the independent and unbiased advice, the agency only has to balance what they would have earned for working with us against what they earned not working with us. I believe the need for estate agents to be recognised as professional & trustworthy comes from transparency and integrity. Let me know when you are happy to be transparent.
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” I am perfectly happy for any estate agency to earn their big fee, but not at the expense of some unaware homeowner.”
BIG fee? What about the Agents who provide excellent service which brings superb results – yet their fees don’t even come to HALF of the “£4350+vat” you quote on your website?
(by the way – that should be £5220 inclusive of VAT – you’re clearly not dealing with Agents who give their potential customers correct marketing advice and information)
I’m not referring to onlinies, nor am I referring to the local budget fee merchants that almost every town suffers from – I’m talking about solid, excellent traditional businesses who eat dog every day and do a better job of it that the next dog.
But I suppose you’re not bothered about the kind of properties that these Agents make their sparse living off.
“We could quite easily say don’t bother with your local agents, go with Purple Bricks instead.”
So much for pretty much all the rest of the b0110cks on your website about putting the customer first, then.
You don’t need me to be ‘transparent’. I’m NOT transparent – I’m solid as a rock and mean to stay that way because it serves my customers and the industry best.
You’ll know me – when I put the phone down the second you announce your company name.
Look forward to the call.
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Thank goodness for the Pareto effect!
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I take it you mean the Pareto Principle…? Pareto Rule, even…?
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From the company’s Tw@tter page:
“The UK leading authority on choosing a better estate agency. Here to help.”
That’s one Helluva claim. I take it you can back it up with cast-iron evidence?
That’s one Helluva problem for what is being described as a “new business” which is currently in “soft launch” mode – even if you have “…already handled a number of sales”.
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In the interests of ‘robust debate’, perhaps I could advise readers whether your agency fits the criteria of one worth recommending? Do you have a web site that provides such information? Care to share it?
I’m all for debate PB, but seems it’s just the two of us . Cognitive diffidence and all that!
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I am not the one making claims purely to promote my business.
I am not the one trying to use this platform for promotion of my business.
I am not the one using statistics hijacked from ANOTHER company who make money out of instructing Agents to bolster the promotion.
I am not willing to work with ‘intermediaries’.
I justify DAILY whether I am my clients ‘right choice’.
I will continue to do this – without your involvement.
I neither welcome nor seek your “recommendation”.
Good luck with your business – just don’t expect to make a red cent out of MY business.
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I agree PB that this conversation has run its course. Whilst I appreciate your input in requiring me to defend the principle, I am naturally disappointed that a service that is paid for by the vendor with ultimately their interests at heart, and one which does not require any agent to pay even one red cent, is viewed by some agents as counter productive to the sales process. My original question remains: What is the difference between the homeowner negotiating the commission and contract with any agency and ourselves doing exactly the same?
Good luck with your business. I am all for fervent, committed and principled agencies.
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” I am naturally disappointed that a service that is paid for by the vendor with ultimately their interests at heart, and one which does not require any agent to pay even one red cent, is viewed by some agents as counter productive to the sales process.”
Sir…
Using your ‘service’ would COST my vendor an additional £250.
WHERE is the benefit to the client? You are ADDING to their costs.
HOW can you defend your statement that this additional cost to a vendor has “ultimately their interests at heart”?
WHY do I think it’s “counter productive to the sales process”? Never said I did.
I said I won’t play your game.
I have given many reasons why I disagree with what you are doing.
I have voiced what I believe many will be thinking.
I do not believe in keeping schtumm – much to the chagrin of many.
Good luck with your business also.
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Can’t there be an effect from a principle or rule?
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Can there?
How would you measure it; justify it; manage it; suffer or benefit from it?
What would be the effect of having an effect – or more to the point, lack of it?
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We have the law of gravity. Its effect is that objects fall.
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Please make your mind up – you asked a question related specifically to “a principle or rule”. Then you use a “law” as an example.
Throughout this dialogue, your inconsistency has remained perfectly consistent.
I wonder which “law”, “principle” or “rule” covers that?
Whichever it is, from now on, I will always think of it as ‘Arnold’s Law/Rule/Principle.’
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Before you correct me, PB, it should of course be dissonance, although diffidence might also apply.
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I think I’ve ‘corrected’ you enough already – don’t you?
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If a vendor has paid our fee and asks for a recommendation as to the best agency, a key requirement would be transpancy and since this would prevent you from disclosing any performance metric to either ourselves or a vendor, the vendor would never become your vendor and consequently would not be £250 worse off. Can’t recommend any agency that simply claims to be solid without any evidence. Fortunately there are agencies out there that are transparent. It’s not the only reason for working with them but it’s a start. Those that hide behind rhetoric and supposed passion are sometimes, in my opinion, in it for themselves. The uneducated vendor will never know until they find it necessary to involve TPOS, by which time, it’s too late.
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Above, you state:
“If a vendor has paid our fee and asks for a recommendation as to the best agency…”
Yet your website clearly states:
“There is no up-front fee and we undertake all our negotiation on the basis of payment (a fixed fee of £250-00) on exchange of contract.”
Come on, Sir – WHICH IS IT? Up-front, or back-loaded? You don’t seem to know.
Where the He11 is the clarity; the transparency and the trustworthiness when you can’t even be consistent as to how and when you get paid?
“The uneducated vendor will never know until they find it necessary to involve TPOS, by which time, it’s too late.”
The uneducated Agency Negotiator will never know until they find it necessary to involve TPOS that the subject Agency may not be a Member of TPOS. There are other schemes to which Agents can be Members of – you need to brush up on your basics before shooting blanks from the keyboard when it’s facts you should be dealing with.
I repeat what I have said above – now with additional evidence – that throughout this dialogue, your inconsistency has remained perfectly consistent.
“Those that hide behind rhetoric and supposed passion are sometimes, in my opinion, in it for themselves.”
Sometimes, I would say that your opinion is, in my opinion, absolutely correct. And I feel well ‘qualified’ to do so, as one who has potentially ‘hired and fired’ a larger number of Estate Agents for prospective customers – ALWAYS FREE OF CHARGE, I may add – than you will ever aspire to.
If, however, you wish to continue to walk the very fine line between rhetoric and insinuation that I am one of those you are referring to, Sir – then you’d better hope to He11 that you never get me on the end of the phone.
It will be a call you will not enjoy, nor be in control of, for one second.
And it will last seven at best.
Now if you don’t mind I’m going back to listing a property I was instructed on this evening – and I promised the vendor it would be online tonight.
I don’t fight for instructions to then disappoint my clients.
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au revoir et bon chance.
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You’re correct, for once PB I should have said “when a vendor engages our services” I am happy to confirm the fee is due on exchange.
Tpos was used as example of one of the redress schemes available to vendors. Our services ensure that no vendor would find it necessary to contact any such body. We are quite able to differentiate between good and mediocre agencies. I find your presumption that we would even engage with an agency without knowing whether they belong to a scheme or which scheme, quite amusing. Me thinks, Sir, that you are running out of ideas.
“Hiring and firing of estate agents for prospective customers isn’t that hard. You just have to persuade them that you, and only you, are ” rock solid”. Try persuading me of that and I think you may have a harder, though not impossible, job.
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“Our services ensure that no vendor would find it necessary to contact any such body.”
What warranty can or do you deliver to that effect? “Ensure” is a pretty compelling word, Sir.
What insurance do you have in the event that your “good” Agent turns out to be “mediocre” – and your client later makes a complaint both against the Agent and you?
I’m sorry to say this – but “mediocre”… or a whole lot worse… Agents successfully “sell” properties every day by the bucketload. Good”… or a whole lot better… Agents frequently fail to find buyers for properties.
There are humongous lessons you either haven’t bothered to take time out to learn – or simply wish to ignore.
You rattle on above about “transparency” and “performance metrics” – and you expect what, exactly, form those Agents lucky enough to fit your criteria? A flim-flam set of performance statistics; a pretty pie-chart and the occasional “independent” report confirming that on one side of one street, on one day, in one particular year (try to read the small print if you want…), Agent ‘X’ had more properties ‘Under Offer’ than any other.
Could that be, maybe:
BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONLY ONE?
DID THE SALE ACTUALLY COMPLETE?
DID THEY ACHIEVE BEST PRICE?
WAS THE VENDOR HAPPY?
The list of important “metrics” is endless.
And 96.82% of statistics are made up on a keyboard. There’s another to add to the statistic – but I doubt it will make much of a difference. Here’s a couple more “statistics” to throw into the great melee that I like to refer to as ‘Fact? Or pure unadulterated Fiction?’ You may well recognise them…:
“In a recent Yougov Poll, only 28% of UK home sellers managed to negotiate a discount on their estate agency fees.”
“What started our business off was the startling fact 45% of vendors choose the wrong estate agency, first time (source: movewithus)”
Interesting things pop up when you try to find the source of these “statistics”, Sir
You should try it. You might be a tad ‘surprised’ – and probably a tad ‘miffed’ – at what you find…!
If you get stuck – you know where I am!
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Well there you go – you’re a more informed person now than before,
Not so much a case of the penny dropping as having it shoved forcefully in your face by the astute Editor of EYE, then.
Here endeth the lesson.
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I went shopping for a new pair of trousers the other day but I found it really difficult to choose. If only there was someone I could pay to read the labels for me.
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Ahhh… agent orange – it’s at times like this when I wonder why I put so much thought into my longwinded retorts…
…when a two-liner from you says it all so well.
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why thank you PeeBee, I’m here all week!
I must say I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread
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“…I’m here all week!”
Sorry – just had a ‘deja vu’ moment there. That’s the second time that phrase has been posted this week.
Surely you’re not…?
Nah! Purely coincidence – that’s what it is.
Glad we cleared that up. ;o)
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I’m fairly sure I’m not who you think I am. Although, I might be, as I don’t know who you are and don’t know who you think I am..
wow this can get confusing, is there someone we can pay to sort this out??
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I’m also fairly sure – seeing as the other person and I couldn’t agree on today being Saturday.
In fact – I’m now absolutely sure – having just read your August post in respect of OTM…
Mind you – I reckon that even that poster and I would concur in respect of this particular PR-plug-gone-badly-wrong.
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Must do more Agent Orange to rid yourself of the mental obesity.
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Actually, Mr ‘agency negotiation limited’ I think you’ll find that ‘agent orange’ is a lean, mean fighting machine and has delivered to you a short, sharp uppercut that you neither saw coming nor even registered as you hit the canvas.
Luckily for you this is a fight where the audience is negligible in scale. But it is representative of the masses, nevertheless – statistically speaking:
“Of the individual posters above, 90.91% were of the opinion that your proposition will not work in its current form”.
Now of course you will no doubt argue, as I have done, that statistics mean absolutely nothing.
Please do – I would LOVE us to agree on at least one final point. ;o)
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I like to think of myself as mentally cuddly
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Mentally, I’m twelve stone nine.
Physically – maybe I’ve got a leg that weight around that…
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I think the problem I have with Mr AG’s (yes I have abbreviated because of my mentally obesity I cant be bothered to type it out) business plan is that it works on the principle that the average member of the public does not have the intelligence to have dealings with an estate agent. I find this insulting on two fronts, firstly, it implies that all estate agents are rascals that are only in it for themselves at the cost of the “poor” vendor and secondly, it is patronising in its implication that the average member of the public does not have the intelligence or mental fortitude to choose an estate agent. – clearly Mr AG has not worked in the industry for some time as Mr Vendor is MORE than capable of researching and negotiating for himself and Mr estate agent should be more than capable of explaining their services and USP’s – if they cant, I highly doubt they will win the business, with or without the aid of a middle man for the middle man.
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COMMENT OF THE WEEK nomination!
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If we’re no threat to your rock solid, lean mean fighting machines, then why bother with this empty verbosity. If the public don’t like this business, we won’t be around long and you can say, “I told you so”.You will be the first guys on my to call list if that happens. We’re proud of what we do, and proud of how we do it. We still have much to learn about how best to help the vendors, but this obviously isn’t for you magnificent ten. I was going to say sorry for wasting your time, but me thinks you have enjoyed this as much as I have.
Things do do, it’s been a pleasure.
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Actually, I would respectfully suggest that I have enjoyed this immensely more than you have.
I have also learned a lot. I sincerely hope you have also.
I would also hope that you have not ignored my post above.
I came across something while Rummaging that I would be very surprised indeed if you already knew about and had not taken appropriate actions against.
But, of course – it’s really none of my business.
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Oh – and by the way – congratulations for being the subject of an article which has spawned over SIXTY comments – which is more that they get down the other pub in a whole week on more than two dozen articles!
You see, EYE is the Home Of Estate Agency Banter.
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