A number of estate agency practices are at risk of going out of business due to the amount of time conveyancers are taking to complete property transactions, according to national law firm Dutton Gregory.
The highest interest rates for 15 years have taken some heat out of the housing market, but the UK is not in a recession, high employment levels continue to rise, and there is healthy demand from those wanting to buy and sell.
This time last year, Rightmove reported that it took 150 days on average to move house, and the situation remains virtually unchanged, despite Covid restrictions fully lifting in March 2022. Dutton Gregory Solicitors stresses that many of its peers are taking too long to raise enquiries and progress cases collaboratively, which can impact completion timescales by several weeks.
Paul Sams, partner, and head of property at Dutton Gregory Solicitors, said: “I don’t understand why any lawyer would want to slow the process down or turn it into a combat sport. Clients want certainty and efficiency, and the completion of their property transaction is essential for Estate Agents to be able to pay staff wages. It’s not uncommon for our conveyancing team to receive over 40 new enquiries 48 hours before the whole chain is expecting to exchange contracts, which can put every linked transaction in jeopardy. It astounds me that some folks just won’t work as a team.”
He continued: “Slow transaction times increase the chances of a property transaction falling through, which is why most housebuilders insist on a 28-day exchange of contracts, whether it’s an off-plan sale, or a finished plot. This timescale can be at odds with the current norm in the resale market. Buyers and sellers are facing too much uncertainty around timeframes for their conveyancing process and completion. While unexpected issues can arise, enquiries should always be raised when the contract is first received.
“If a local estate agents practice folds, it’s a blow for not only the individual business but also for the overall health of the housing market let alone the economy at large. At a time where there is a shortage of housing, completing transactions in the shortest time possible is in everyone’s interests. We want to work with our industry peers to improve service levels and help the whole supply chain to stay in business.”
I missed yesterdays discussion, so here is my take on slow transactions!
Lack of preparation and lack of communication, in every part of the process!
There will be people who talk about pre sale contract packs. Well we used to have them, they were called HIPS and in my opinion they greatly helped the process. We had them prepared on a no sale no fee basis meaning we had no barrier if entry for vendors.
Certain members of the industry hounded the politicians to get them removed. Incredibly short sighted as they saved weeks in many transactions.
Then communication. Solicitors will say with some justification that they spend half their time updating estate agents on what is happening. The trouble is, because of Ombudsman rules, Estate agents have to be able to demonstrate that they have updated their clients on a weekly basis otherwise the ombudsman will find against in the car of a complaint!! As an industry, this has led to an increased them and us relationship between estate agents and solicitors.
The entire process of conveyancing is no longer fit for purpose! For instance, why does every transaction start from scratch, when sometimes that house has been conveyanced in the last few years?
A central registry of information would stop the same questions being asked every time that house comes to market.
There are cleverer people than me on here who could say the best ways to make the process more efficient, but for starters, why does it have to be an adversarial process between two conveyancers?
We are no longer living in victorian times!!!!
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Totally agree that conveyancing should not be a combat sport. If estate agencies fold, won’t some conveyancing firms also? Not so much a case of as shooting themselves in the foot as shooting themselves in the head.
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Rob – how much difference would it make it solicitors were paid a significant chunk of their fee on performance, not time? Just asking!!
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Exactly Ed,
They get paid if a deal takes years to go through or never goes through
They do not give a poo
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Of all of the hundreds (possibly thousands) of solicitors/conveyancers I know, or have known, every single one of them wants their client to buy and/or sell their property. It isn’t about the money (maybe it is with agents), it is personal pride and getting the result the client wants.
If a transaction aborts the solicitor/conveyancer will get part of their fee only. Why would they want that to happen.
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lessons from 88-94. If you artificially stimulate the property market there is a short spike in the number or transactions as those who might move get a wiggle on and bring forward their plans, there’s then a period of quiet as the market finds its own rhythm again.
The stamp duty holidays did that, lots of people moved and lots of people bought their retire to home a bit earlier than the would have.
On top of that low interest rate economic policy, the false economy I have been banging on about since 2018 has extended the transaction difference between rungs on the property ladder.
The perfect storm has been engineered where putting together a set of dependant sales and purchases is difficult enough but the starter and stopper nodes- the essential elements of all chains is have been made rarer than politician’s integrity; the starter nodes FTBs can’t afford properties, can’t afford mortgages, can’t find anything to buy as investors are snuffling up anything that’s listed and the stopper node properties are being retained as BTL or Short let investments
The Fannie Mae crash in 2008 followed the same pattern as the MIRAS crash, relatively few property prices actually crashed ( over all property values continued to rise) but transaction volumes were subdued and took 4 years to recover to where they were.
As one final bit of cheer, transaction volumes have been running 25% down since October 2021, which means if the same patterns repeat for a 3rd time this is the darkest hour and things might start to get better…. that said with only 18 months maximum to go until the next election, the uncertainty that accompanies every election is likely to have an impact
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Example: one conveyancer I know, has allowed one of their solicitors to have Fridays off… Fridays!!! That’s normally completion day.
This is the logic we are up against.
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Ah yes – I was in a transaction with a company who had a sol who did not work Fridays
They really are not fit for purpose
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Are you saying none of the solicitor’s clients completed on a Friday? Or is it that the firm simply arranged for another lawyer to complete on the files that had already been signed off and contracts exchanged…?
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Having a business in both England and Scotland, I find the solicitors in England completely incompetent.
A typical sale is 6 weeks north of the border. I understand there’s differences between common law and leasehold but I don’t think that warrants and extra 2 months of work.
The real reason it takes so long is some solicitors aren’t willing to change and adopt processes which will speed up the process.
I’ve often thought that modernising the process of conveyancing would be a great idea, but unless ol’ Margaret down the road is willing to stop sending everything by mail then it will never change.
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We can only dream of a 6 week completion….the whole system is hopeless
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Agreed
It is not so much the system as the people
Every week are told – I will write to the other side
WHY CAN YOU NOT PICK UP A F IN PHONE
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Because the conveyancer has tried to contact the conveyancer on the other side, been put on hold and gave up after 15 mins.
Why do estate agent keep chasing the conveyancers on the other side of a transaction for updates when they can not contact their ‘Pet Conveyancer’? Surely the fault lays squarely in the estate agents court if referrals fee are a target driven and therefore first point of contact should be the ‘Pet Conveyancer’.
Seriously ask the question; Is a kick back of a few hundred quid worth the increased timeframe to completion, or the chain collapsing?
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we don’t get referral fees and obviously speak to large and small companies but they are all just too slow, don’t think its got anything to do with getting some kick back that if I’m honest
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This is irony right?
I’m surprised the man has enough time to note what’s happening in the conveyancing profession I thought he was trying to break the record for attending the most jollies in a year from all his recent social media posts.
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It is not only estate agents who face going bust, many conveyancing firms are also having issues with cash flow due to the increased transaction times.
The estate agents make recommendations to their ‘Pet Conveyancers’ for a referral fee need to take some responsibility.
As Paul Sams, partner, and head of property at Dutton Gregory Solicitors, said It’s not uncommon for our conveyancing team to receive over 40 new enquiries 48 hours before the whole chain is expecting to exchange contracts, which can put every linked transaction in jeopardy. It astounds me that some folks just won’t work as a team.”
It is not the fact that some folks just won’t work as a team, the fact is that they are unable to work as a team. If your conveyancing business model is to pay for business, then you are going to have to obtain high volumes of work, use unqualified/inexperienced staff who have to obtain sign off from a qualified team member throughout the process.
It astounds me that a freehold transaction that has no chain, cash buyer is now taking 3 months to complete. Why? Because the other side is sending endless pro-forma enquiries, most of which have nothing to do with the property. They are not responsive and are unable to be contacted by phone. Yet we get the estate agent hounding us with wanting up-dates. Our normal response is, ‘We are waiting for a response from the other side’. And what is the ‘kicker’, that the estate agent recommended the conveyancer on the other side because they wanted to obtain a bunce.
So, if you are chasing referral fees at the expense of recommending a conveyancing company who would rather invest into their own infrastructure then you only have yourself to blame.
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Here we go again, another story of many, many and many for decades that highlight how bad conveyancing is and is a problem that’s not being fixed.
Considering the hi-tech office facilities, why is it now taking longer? You don’t need the snail mail postman anymore, yet he was quicker. Access to information has never been so easy, just a click = milliseconds. The antique gathering of documents is one problem but the real reason ……… the person doing the conveyancing.
I have nver seen so much poor time management anywhere to compare with some conveyancers and I would like to highlight the comment some. There are many who are very good (that will draw a laugh from a few!), communication is excellent but what shines is they have got their act together and now how to implement.
Far too many haven’t a clue what a 1 to 31 is, look beyond the piece of paper in front of them and totally reactive with little foresight or should I say, will not do anything until it hits their desk. If they don’t know what is ahead, they shouldn’t be in conveyancing.
Conveyancing has a hard core of, my time at my pace which reflects badly on that industry.
And on the issue of time, working from home is for many the norm and I will argue till I go blue in the face. Its inefficient and other distractions get in the way (on the golf course!!!). Hasn’t everyone heard …. oh they are not in today or until I get back in the office I can’t XXXY.
My advice is ditch poor performing conveyancers once and for all. Many good ones out there wanting the business.
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If agents chose to reward skilled conveyancers by referring business to them, instead of the **** battery-firms who offer agents a referral fee but cannot pay a salary to attract and retain competent lawyers, nor provide them with suitable ongoing training, then we would see our customers receive better service, and our transactions/chains would complete faster.
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Such a disappointing set of comments . Agents blaming solicitors, solicitors blaming agents for instructing bad conveyancers!
REALLY!!!!!!!
How mature of everyone. Not one sensible suggestion on here as to how the system could be improved.
I really don’t get it. I am no longer in sales, but was for nearly twenty years, so have a reasonable understanding of the issues, on both sides. But I can’t see anyone on here saying anything that might suggest an improvement, other than the fact they can afford to come iff their work to comment here.
And yes, I get the irony of that last point, but I don’t work day too day in the business anymore, so off today!
Good luck everyone, but I am really not sure anyone who has commented either understands what the problem is, or they just want to throw abuse!!
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People have suggested improvements
Solicitors being paid for completions only and picking up a phone rather than sending a letter for instance
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jan-byers,
Conveyancers only get paid on completions, so we have a vested interest in getting the transactions through to completion as quickly as possible, just like the estate agents
Yes I agree with you about picking up the phone, but there are conveyancing companies, usually the ones who have to buy business, via paying referral fees that are notoriously hard to get hold off on the phone; hence communication is limited to email correspondence.
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Not strictly true that conveyancers only get paid on completion. I know of lots of solicitors who bill for their work whether the sale falls-through or eventually completes.
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I would say that there are many conveyancers offering and promote a No Sale/No Fee to obtain business. These ones have a vested interest in pushing the transaction through to completion.
Here is an idea for those estate agents who are frustrated by the fall throughs and increased timeframes. Why don’t you do your homework on the conveyancing companies who you refer and explore other conveyancing referral possibilities at the same time.
Just a few questions to consider, (I’m sure there will be other who can contribute):
Do they pay referral fees? Paying referral fee could be a red flag as that money paid is money that can not be invested into the business.
If you can find out what percentage of their business comes from repeat or been referred by another client?
Have you had clients who have declined your recommended conveyancer and used another company, because they had used them before? This company should be included on your radar.
Call the potential conveyancing company, see how long it takes them to answer the phone. What is the response like?
Put yourself in your clients’ shoes. Do you think that your clients are going to be happy with your recommendation?
What sort of experience have you had historically with the conveyancing company? Have they been proactive and reactive?
It is also important to know staff turnover. Is it high, or do the retain their staff, that is not just the fee earner, but also includes support staff.
Did the transaction get handed over numerous times to another case manager?
Is there one fee earner allocated to the transaction?
The most important thing is that who you recommend for conveyancing is important. You need to feel that both you and the conveyancer is working towards obtaining the goal of completion. You need to be a team helping the client to move. Also another thing to consider is that who you recommend impacts on your reputation and in any business we should be all aiming for repeat business.
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Utter and total gibberish
One of my good buddies is a solicitor
I know for a fact that his people invoice if a sale does not complete
This month we have had a bill for 2 sales on our developments that have cancelled – on both occasions the buyers so called conveyancer was extremely slow – one of them worked 3 days a week the other worked 4 days a week
I myself was trying to buy a property from a buddy which did not complete as the his forward purchaser fell through – both of us had a bill for legals
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See my comment immediately above your own? Agent blaming agents and suggested a partial solution.
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Hi Jan, there are already panels where that is exactly how it works!!! We used one, just like that for atleast ten years. It didn’t speed the process up.
Picking the phone up might help, that that is not the fundamental reason why the process is so slow. I know a few property developers who aren’t always very quick to respond to questions when it suits them!
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It is not the only reason the process is slow – but it exemplifies the attitude and mentality of the conveyancers
many are simply unable to communicate like normal people
They also just have no urgency and do not give a poo
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From the Negotiator
Julian Blackmore, BNE BNE
14th July 2023 at 9:31 am
Conveyancers are by far the biggest cause of our fall-throughs. Often take 2 weeks to send out terms of business, then miss stuff out, take weeks to reply to enquiries, don’t know basic law like Transfer of Private Sewers etc!, 2015 amendment to septic tanks! but worst of all lie about so many things it’s a disgrace. The classic is “I sent it last week”, what you mean is, you put it in your “out tray”, to be be sent, and it takes the equally useless admin team 10 days to physically post it. You sending it last week is not the same as it physically leaving is it!… oh and “I never got the email!” but have just received the one you’ve resent (to the same address of course)!!
Paul Sams, partner and head of property at Dutton Gregory
“It’s not uncommon for our conveyancing team to receive over 40 new enquiries 48 hours before the whole chain is expecting to exchange contracts, which can put every linked transaction in jeopardy
That is simply rubbish and nothing to do with the system – it all all to do with the total ineptitude and lackadaisical sloth-like mentality of the lawyers who could not care less
Conveyancers are even worse that solicitors – they are doing a low skilled admin job very slowly and poorly
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Whoa! Jan I understand that you are frustrated, but please do not tar us all with the same brush.
There are many great conveyancers and solicitors who have the clients best interests at heart, you just have to do your homework and find two who is going to be proactive and reactive. One for the seller the other for the buyer!
Why don’t you pursue in finding two conveyancers/solicitors who are client focused and who you feel that the three of you can work in partnership. Obliviously the chain is only as strong as the weakest link and if it is a long chain then completion is in the lap of the dogs.
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And on a side note Jan.
What Paul Sams, partner and head of property at Dutton Gregory
“It’s not uncommon for our conveyancing team to receive over 40 new enquiries 48 hours before the whole chain is expecting to exchange contracts, which can put every linked transaction in jeopardy.
Does happen and it is so frustrating.
Or on occasions the other side has not even completed their AML, received signed contracts, mortgage deed and obtained the deposit.
Yes conveyancing is in a dire situation both for you but also for us. Many a time our team have done the silent scream.
It all boils down to those who care and those that don’t.
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As I mentioned above estate agents have the power. If all estate agents did their due diligence, found two companies who were focused on service delivery, forgot about the referral targets and found two conveyancing companies who ethos and ethics were on service delivery then it would be a win win; especially for the client.
Can you imagine if all estate agents did this, the chains would be proactive and reactive. Fall throughs would decrease, and so would timeframes.
I can not fathom why an estate agent would recommend a ‘factory conveyancer’ or one that is off shore. Their business model has proven not to work.
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I can say this with complete confidence as a conveyancer – when it comes to delays in transactions some conveyances are the problem.
I cannot tell you how many times the other side have been a warehouse that either have over 100 files each and cannot give you the time of day or offshore their work to another country and days are lost just trying to get the explicit detail of what is being asked across so the enquiry can be fully understood and dealt with appropriately. That is time that just cannot be wasted.
Some firms look to race to the bottom and keep their costs as a minimum but in employing people with no experience, and offshoring making up 99% of your workforce, you aren’t saving money at all. You’re losing it by the bucketload if like many firms in the market you offer a no move no fee. However those firms take a volume based approach and you can tell when responding to what are often blanket, superfluous enquiries raised by someone who wouldn’t have a clue whether you were right or wrong in response.
There is now a culture in conveyancing of “I will review and come back to you” – I don’t work like that and wont work like that. If you have the means to do something on that file and progress it forward, I’ll do it as soon as it becomes evident and I just cannot understand why this is not the way of others. It appears to me some firms overload each lawyer to the point of burnout and make that unachievable.
The solution is obvious to me (but potentially not to others) if you cannot do the job and move at the pace the transaction requires you should not be employed in that job.
I would welcome a fee structure that incrementally increases based on how far the transaction progresses. For example, some matters fall through and there’s nothing you, I or John Mortgage Broker could have done to stop it. I should be paid for the work I did getting it there but if that fell out of bed at enquiry stage, that should be a small slice of the pie.
I think if the above was introduced we would see lawyers more committed to actually collaborating and getting deals through rather than considering each client just another number.
I hope for change.
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But the power is in the estate agents court! They need to do their due diligence on who they recommend, if the referral fee is the most important because they have referral targets to hit then they are going to head for the company who pays the most in referral fees and service delivery becomes an after thought. They forget that their conveyancer/solicitor recommendation actually reflects back on them and God forbid if the deal falls through.
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And can I add I totally agree with your comment when it comes to delays in transactions some conveyances are the problem
The majority of Memorandums of Sale we get our in heart sinks. We know it is going to be a tough ride getting our clients through to completion.
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Hi GS168,
To some degree, yes. But a lot of these firms are rock bottom comparison website jobs so try as the agent might to convince them to use someone decent who they know well, that might never work. If the ****, bottom drawer offshoring types didn’t exist to start with that’d certainly make that ride a little easier.
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I should add I am not sure if an agent can refuse to put an offer to their vendor if the firm is notoriously poor (someone may have to educate me on this point)
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Well Londonconveyancer, agents do it if clients do not go with their recommended conveyancer and agent actually recommend notoriously poor conveyancers for up to £400 referral fees. There is an insinuation that the seller will not accept offers unless the buyer uses the agents preferred conveyancer; heard this situation many times. They say that if they are using the same conveyancer things will move quicker. Double bunce in referral fees. Double dire situation for all those in the chain.
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Wow, but I bet it is indeed the awful conveyancers offering an inflated referral fee to make sure they keep the work churning it. Vicious cycle of enablement there, then!
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Agents are legally obliged to put all offers forward (even if it’s an offer of a £10), and a lot of the time when we are negotiating an offer the buyer and seller have not yet selected a lawyer. Although we only recommend good quality solicitors (who we do not receive referral fees from), there are people who go online to search for the cheapest (most abysmal) lawyers, or accept the recommendation from their own estate agent, or their broker who claims only a select few firms can act for the [high street] lender.
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Yes I know that agents are legally obligated to put all offers forward, but it does not always happen.
I will give you the scenario, which has happened numerous times . Acted on sale of property, gave a quote for sale and purchase, purchase property had not been found yet. Client came back and said sorry we can not instruct you as the agent will not put our offer to the seller unless we use their conveyancer.
And yes the online comparison sites online cheap as chips who spend huge amount to be on the top four Google search are the bane of conveyancing. This is where you as an estate agent have to sell, get the client to really troll down on the reviews. If the company that the client is looking to instruct and used a comparison site they need to look at the reviews on Trustpilot, get them to drill down on the reviews, ask them to star with the one stars, look at the themes running through the reviews. Sit with them ask questions. Then go to the five start reviews scroll down, look again at the themes…….one start review, 5 five start reviews follow in quick succession.
All estate agents have a moral duty to protect their clients and ensure that their clients dreams are realized. They have a moral duty to ensure that their conveyancing recommendations are fit for purpose.
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Opps! sorry about my response think you are an agent and giving you a response as if you where. Long day!
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So to take these comments at face value!
All conveyancers in large farms that can be classed as factory conveyancers and also any forms that pay referral fees are useless!
No solicitor ever picks up the phone, except the good ones, but only on the three of four days that they work!
There are very few competent conveyances now in the industry, other than those that work in the few good local firms who do not pay referrals and they all respond quickly to requests for information, other than the ones that don’t reply, or pick up their phone, or go write to all the local agents saying they will not speak to them until the contracts are ready to exchange!!!
Meanwhile, all of these conveyancer’s/ solicitors are busily charging for work that has not completed and are presumably hitting the golf course early each day, on their ill gotten gains.
The only way out of this is for all buyers and sellers to only use small local companies and that the conveyancing industry as a whole should be charging much more for their work in order to pay better wages to the staff that do the work, this will magically cure our problem of slow transaction times.
Really a complete waste of a discussion in my opinion!!
There have been ideas for improving the system on Eye in the past, but nothing really very dramatic or likely to change things dramatically.
Perhaps there is a better forum to discuss this on, but all that today has proven is that agents and solicitors do not seem to like each other very much and actually the conveyancing industry is ripping itself apart due to low fees.
Come on brain trust, I started this with a couple of suggestions right at the top and no one has even mentioned them! I can’t be the only person who reads this who might have some sensible and outside of the box suggestions for making this better!!
Ofcourse up front information helps as it also means the solicitor will have done their amr checks and have signed engagement letters. So perhaps a diluted version of HIPS as a starting point would help. I guarantee it would save two weeks on many transactions, which when thrown into a chain, automatically delays every other transaction in that chain!
The fact that the industry appears to not want to do anything to change things would suggest there is some ulterior motive, or just a plain lack of leadership.
Thoughts?
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Total respect for you opinion, but problem is estate agents need to stop blaming the conveyancers they need to be proactive and do their due diligence on who they are going to recommend
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Agreed if it is in their control but as said above, sometimes clients shop solely on price and pick whatever **** they find offering an entire transaction for a pittance. They’ll only be able to do so much.
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And can I just say that the estate agent has a major role to play. They need to protect their cliens, do their due diligence on the comparison sites see which companies are on the comparison site….can these companies become a preferred recommendation. In many cases I would say not! As the first point of contact it is the estate agent that has a moral duty to ensure that their client has instructed the right conveyancer; after all the transaction hangs on who the client instructs.
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Conveyancing should be a team effort. Everyone involved should have confidence that whoever does what in the process that the client is the focus. I personally think that although conveyancers are having to deal with new legislation, some which are ill thought-out, that the mind set is focused on the client. And as you said agents and conveyancers do not like each other at the moment. I do not profess to have the answers. All I can see is that it is conveyancing is a team effort, estate agent and conveyancing companies becoming a team, both have to have client focused delivery, even at the expense of targeted referral fees. In fact the whole chain needs to have this ethos!
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“Interesting seeing the topic on Estate Agents that I viewed earlier. Where I have been working, we now have a receptionist who has come from and Estate Agency. Couple of months on and she is now appalled at the way conveyancers are hassled by Agents, frequent requests for update, the moans she is aware of etc etc. A recent conversation with her confirmed that many Estate Agents have absolutely no idea what we go through and how she wishes she had known before what she knows now about our job, that she would never have hassled and moaned had she realised. I just hope she is saying the same to her former colleagues!!!” Conveyancer Bold Legal Group Forum
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Here is an idea. For the 25 years I have been in the industry there has always been a huge gap between solicitors and agents. The writer is absolutely spot on when he says that there is no need for this process to take anywhere near as long as it does.
firstly, scrap search agents. They are useless and take so long to get searches back. No need. Local authorities can turn them in less than a week. Secondly, with many transactions being leasehold. Why the hell are we waiting for management packs to be provided for over 6 weeks. To get through to Firstport, Mainstay, homeground etc will take a good 2 hours at the very least. Then you have the enquiries on top. Just as a bonus and as an extra bonus a flippin DoV is required by the lender. Why in all that is holy are we not getting the packs from the protocol forms being received instead of waiting for the other side to ask for them. Get the clients to get them early doors.
If you ask me. Management companies need to be more responsive, responsible and further governed in some way. Thirdly, there just isn’t any interest to be proactive why bother when some get paid anyway
The referral system has nothing to do with it, they get a kick back yes, but without it agents would be out of business a long time ago. But they are also promised quick transactions and a whole team of people to get your case through. false Promises!!!
lastly, agents lack of training in the legal aspect and further Sales Progression means that should solicitors need assistance. Agents cannot help frustrating for the many I’m sure. If they understood what they were chasing then they can help speed things along.
The system is massively broken and unfortunately both agents and solicitors are now going to lose their businesses as they do actually rely on each other. Despite the nuances clearly there.
and as for the client. Well they just won’t buy. What’s the point.
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Maybe conveyancers/solicitors should take a leaf out of the estate agents book, and charge 1.5% – 2% on completion only.
£500,000.00 purchase, legal fee now say £1,000.00 plus. On a percentage basis the legal fee would be between £7,500.00 and £10,000.00.
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