Agents’ Mutual passes 3,000 membership milestone

| Rosalind Renshaw

Agents’ Mutual, which will be launching its OnTheMarket portal in January, announced this morning that it has now passed the 3,000 membership milestone.

Chief executive Ian Springett told Eye: “The next major milestone is 4,000. Once we hit this, we will approach our Silver agents, who have signed letters of intent, to sign contracts. At current recruitment rates, this will be early autumn.”

Springett also revealed that although the current Gold offer closes on July 31, there is a possibility of a further Gold offer after that.

The original Gold agents who signed up did not have to sign contracts until the 2,000 member office mark was reached. Those who have been recruited since have gone straight to contract.

In addition, Silver members have the option to upgrade to Gold and Springett says that a number of agents are making the switch.

He said of the next goal: “The objective is to have at least 4,000 offices contracted as either Gold or Silver membership as soon as possible, as the platform for further member recruitment in the last few months before launch.”

Springett said that Agents’ Mutual is now recruiting at “well over 100 offices” per week, and that more than 4,000 firms have registered their interest but have yet to join.

He said: “We are now working to meet them all and communicate our proposition.

“Momentum is building as agents increasingly recognise the strategic benefits of owning and controlling Agents’ Mutual.

“It is a business which can break once and for all the duopoly of the two big portal groups and can support and defend the market position of full-service, office-based estate and lettings agency.”

He added: “We are now more than 75% of the way to our next major milestone and have every confidence that we shall meet our target number of agent offices for our portal launch in January 2015.”

 

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140 Comments

  1. CP
    July 22, 2014 at 08:29

    Five Questions: To all AM agents who will be dropping either Rightmove or Zoopla….

    1. From what date will you be informing sellers on valuation appointments that – from January – you will no longer be advertising on Rightmove or Zoopla?

    2. What reasons will you give for this decision?

    3. Will you be writing to all unsold clients prior to January OTM launch that you will no longer be advertising on Rightmove or Zoopla?

    4. Will you allow such clients who are against this decision to cancel their agreements immediately even if they are within your sole agency period?

    5. If not – why not?

    All very important – and very relevant – questions IMO.

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    1. oliverslondon
      July 22, 2014 at 09:04

      Can you honestly say that you will have much less chance of selling/letting a property if you only use one portal? How did you explain no longer advertising in local newspapers to clients? Do you still advertise in local newspapers? The only explanation I have for the negativity towards AM is that some members of our industry not fully understand what the proposition is. Would that be a fair statement?

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      1. Paul H
        July 22, 2014 at 09:09

        Olivers……Or for whatever reason they do not want AM to work and in most cases due to them having a vested interest.

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        1. PeeBee
          July 22, 2014 at 11:51

          Paul H – please tell me HOW can you state the above? For a start – and I would say that you 'know' me better than any other poster you are referring to – where do I fit in?

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          1. wilko
            July 22, 2014 at 12:59

            Not wanting to Speak for Paul H but I'm seeing "most cases" written NOT "all cases" I do know that you crave wanting to "fit in"

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          2. PeeBee
            July 22, 2014 at 13:17

            "I do know that you crave wanting to "fit in""

            Nah, matey – as I say and Paul H agrees, I'm unique. There ain't a box for me – either in THIS discussion or any other for that matter.
            So… what about the DON'T "fit ins" like me, wilko? And what if all those that Paul H neatly puts in his box DON'T fit in there either?

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          3. SimonShinerock
            July 23, 2014 at 20:05

            I don't fit in either, I was invited to and then banned from the recent Savills presentation because I have dared to dissent

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          4. PeeBee
            July 25, 2014 at 10:18

            "…I was invited to and then banned from the recent Savills presentation…" Mr Shinerock, considering your previous very public vocalisation in respect of the subject I am WAY more surprised that an invite was issued in the first place than the fact it was subsequently rescinded…

            Anyway – how do you like it over here on 'The Dark Side…?' ;o)

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    2. JungleProperty
      July 22, 2014 at 09:21

      What does it say in your client agreement? If your client agreement explicitly says 'we will market your property on RM/Z/PL..' and you cease marketing on one of those then you are in breach so whether you re-negotiate/terminate/compensate will be down to individual circumstances. If your agreement simply says 'we will market your property on the internet' then nothing has changed – what tools you use is your choice. For the benefit of potential clients you should announce any significant changes as soon as possible otherwise you are in danger of misleading.

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    3. wilko
      July 22, 2014 at 09:53

      TO CP.. points for you.
      1. Why are you asking the questions?
      2. What each agent chooses to do with regard to your q's will be different depending on their circumstances and, to be fair, is nothing to do with you, or any other contributor to this forum.

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    4. surrey1
      July 22, 2014 at 10:35

      I can't remember the last time I was questioned about what portals we market on. Just that we market online. Only 30% of our sales this year have come from the two dominant portals and one of them has barely made an appearance. I think clients will be at peace with this.

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      1. Woodentop
        July 22, 2014 at 12:55

        Exactly and my argument for years. If Zoopla and RM was so good, how come so many agents sell more not on these web sites. The basic rules of Estate Agency is often overlooked by those so "gun ho" on web advertising. It is part of the business not the holy grail.

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  2. OnTheFence
    July 22, 2014 at 08:39

    “Momentum is building as agents increasingly recognise the strategic benefits of owning and controlling Agents’ Mutual…."

    On the Market Ltd and its domain names are 100% controlled by Mr I P Springett according to recent Companies House activity; how will Agents own and control Agents Mutual?

    On The Market Ltd – 05387791 (source: Companies House 22/07/14)
    16/07/14 Change in Reg. Office: c/o Agents' Mutual, PO Box 450, Aldershot, GU11 9FZ
    16/07/2014 Mr C.J. Battersby has left the board
    16/07/2014 Mr L.I. Gorman has resigned as company secretary
    16/07/2014 New Board Member Mr I.P. Springett appointed

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  3. Paul H
    July 22, 2014 at 08:50

    Here's how I see the membership numbers panning out;

    3rd October 4250
    1st November 5250
    5th December 7000

    Roll on January.

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    1. SimonShinerock
      July 23, 2014 at 20:10

      Here's how I see it, January 2014 3759 January 2015………

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      1. Paul H
        July 23, 2014 at 20:23

        Mr Shinerock…is it really you???if so then glad to be graced by your presence!

        Not sure what you mean by January 2015 3759 care to elaborate?

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  4. Fencesitter
    July 22, 2014 at 08:59

    CP – Well said. How will such a transparently self-serving move sit with existing legal obligations to the client?

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    1. wilko
      July 22, 2014 at 09:56

      "Straws" and "clutching" are the 2 words that spring to mind.

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  5. danny
    July 22, 2014 at 09:48

    In an article on here March 20th regarding Agents Mutual sign up rates Springett said that he had 2075 members , mixture on gold and silver. Doing some quick maths thats 60 agents per week joining. Carrying that forward assuming that they have been visiting everyone intersted, signing the "low hanging fruit" so to speak they need to find another 1000 agents,i think they may struggle to hit their quota of silver by Christmas. For myself Im going to say not for now thankyou, crucify anyone in my patch who comes off to every vendor I can get to listen to me and then if agents mutual become successful join at that point having lost nothing…

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    1. wilko
      July 22, 2014 at 10:10

      "crucify anyone in my patch who comes off to every vendor"
      How are you going to do that exactly?

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      1. danny
        July 22, 2014 at 15:05

        It means explaining to my potential clients how the market currently sits. On 2nd January some of my competitors will have removed their stock from one or other of the largest two websites in the UK. I wont be slow to explain just how that affects the property journey. I will explain someone who uses Rm/Zoopla may have offered a better price than someone who ends up buying their house but may not see it as their property wont be listed there. I see it as my duty to my clients to try and get the best coverage for their property, just dealing with facts on January 1st onthemarket.co.uk will have precisely 0 users, ive just got my Zoopla newsletter which says over 1 million people a day visit their website. Not sure I believe that but it will be a sizable chunk of the market that I dont want my clients to miss. Like I said before if I have to change my standpoint later then so be it but by not joining now I have the option.

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        1. wilko
          July 22, 2014 at 15:42

          Good luck with that. If you think a seller won't use an agent because their house will be advertised on rightmove and on the market instead of zoopla you really are living in the past. Things have moved on massively since the days of "you can be on zoopla as well as rm with us" granted sellers will want to appear on rm but beyond that they really don't care…..I've been asking my sellers for the last 18 months or so if they care which portal they want to be on ……. None have said that zoopla was a major consideration or deal breaker. Have you asked on valuations "which website would you want your property on?" If you do now you will see that it is true…you'll save yourself the embarrassment when you try to "crucify" your opposition.

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          1. danny
            July 23, 2014 at 13:16

            Living in the past !! It hasnt even launched yet and your deciding what my vendors will do . Just FYI I had 9 valuation requests from Zoopla last two months and I won two of them as a direct result of being with Zoopla. Those two conversions are worth c£4K in fees and will pay my bill for a year. So far I havent had one vendor say to me " Can you pull off one of the big portals ive actually heard of and put my property onto something that doesnt exist yet so you can save some money and charge me the same" As soon as that "market research" comes through ill let you know. If you think thats actually going to happen then your living in the past…

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  6. CP
    July 22, 2014 at 09:49

    I see none of the respondents have answered any of the questions.

    The single biggest fundamental mistake that AM have made is launching a business that is based and motivated on the benefits to EA's of (in AM's own words) "disrupting the market" for Rightmove and Zoopla.

    Successful businesses – first and foremost – bring new or extra benefits to the CONSUMER – AM does the exact opposite.

    RM – and latterly Zoopla – have become hugely successful by giving buyers what the High Street EA's did not provide – a one stop 'shop window' for property that could be accessed via the internet 24/7/365 from anywhere in the world.

    The huge success of RM and Zoopla shows that this is a benefit that buyers WANT – and this, of course, also benefits sellers.

    AM seem oblivious to the fact that the biggest disruption caused by their high handed "only one other portal" command will be, not to RM and Zoopla, but to buyers who will now have to search on THREE portals to find all available property – the exact opposite of what they want.

    When the press latch on to the fact that 'greedy EA's' are disrupting the market for buyers simply to save a couple of hundred quid a branch when they earn £1000's in commission a sale – the smelly stuff will hit the fan with 'Ratner force'.

    This is a potential PR disaster for AM.

    Buyers and sellers couldn't give a monkeys what EA's are paying to advertise on RM and Z.

    The only reason why AM and it's supporters can't see all of this is because they are blinded to common business sense by emotions bordering on hatred for RM and Zoopla. Emotions and hatred don't make for sound decisions in life or business.

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    1. wilko
      July 22, 2014 at 10:08

      Really! Haven't you got any new comments about this.
      We have all heard these points loads and loads of times before.
      The interesting thing is that each time these old chestnuts are given an airing, the membership of "On The Market" has increased. Indicative that people aren't convinced by these old points of view.

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      1. SimonShinerock
        July 23, 2014 at 20:14

        Answer this, Ian is a) dipping this for love or b) he isn't

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    2. OnTheFence
      July 22, 2014 at 10:21

      Hear, Hear. By listing on multiple portals agents are trying to gain the maximum coverage for their clients property and thereby secure a sale to earn a fee. RM/Z is as close to a 'central listing' as we will get in the UK and the model by which consumers start their property search or property research.

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    3. Robin
      July 22, 2014 at 13:39

      CP – The consumer in this instance is US – the estate agency community. We are the clients and consumers of RM and Z. The buying and selling public are our OUR consumers and clients. If we find a better, more economical way to market their property whilst acheiving the same, or even better result, we not only have a duty to them to consider it but a duty to ourselves, surely, to manage our businesses more profitably, and more efficiently. Why on earth would you want to keep uploading to three portals (or even two) if ONE is a better, cheaper, more widely accepted option. Once OTM is well established there will be no need for the other two, will there? The only reason this project could fail is that people like you will fail to realise the possible benefits and by your negative approach perhaps persuade more 'fence sitters' to let the same old portals keep emptying your pockets.

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      1. PeeBee
        July 26, 2014 at 10:13

        " If we find a better, more economical way to market their property whilst acheiving the same, or even better result, we not only have a duty to them to consider it but a duty to ourselves, surely, to manage our businesses more profitably, and more efficiently."

        I would agree in main with that. HOWEVER… you have NOT "found a better… way to market their property whilst achieving the same, or even better result". You are simply HOPING/EXPECTING/CONVINCING YOURSELVES that this new offering can do that.

        PLEASE – show me that I am wrong here. Give me COLD, HARD EVIDENCE that OTM IS BETTER than what it would be replacing, and achieve THE SAME, OR EVEN BETTER RESULTS for my customers.

        I'll sign up the same day.

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  7. CP
    July 22, 2014 at 10:17

    Hitler heard all of the points not to invade Russia – again and again.

    But he still went in…..

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    1. wilko
      July 22, 2014 at 11:05

      I guess this comment really sums up the importance of your comments.
      By the way, just 2 things;
      "The single biggest fundamental mistake that AM have made is launching a business that is based and motivated on the benefits to EA's of (in AM's own words) "disrupting the market"…..When any business launches it aims to disrupt the existing status quo to gain a market share and be successful. Ask Russell Quirk or any of the hybrid agents whether or not they intended to disrupt the industry and be successful on their launches!
      "buyers who will now have to search on THREE portals to find all available property – the exact opposite of what they want. " …How do YOU know what they want? Tell me, do you think the public only want only 1 website to buy goods on…ok so you then advocate banning all websites except Amazon…. in the public interest, of course. Oh and while you're at it why not only have Tesco as the one supermarket….the public (according to you) don't want to shop around for the best products, they want to find everything in just one place, and they certainly aren't interested in that pesky German firm Aldi, who rudely pushed in on the uk supermarket wars with the sole aim of disrupting the likes of Tesco?.
      Like I said…..you will really need to have far more valid, relevant comments if you want to persuade agents against On The Market.

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      1. Paul H
        July 22, 2014 at 11:20

        Bang on the money as ever Wilko, apparently the main problem now will be that customers will have to use three porytal which will disrupt the way they find a property, as you say……"Straws and clutching are the 2 words that spring to mind."

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      2. danny
        July 22, 2014 at 11:30

        That's a terrible analogy wilko..the situation for the consumer is more like having to buy bread from asda because they are legally contracted not to sell it and then get their milk from tesco because asda don't have that. By splitting the consumer market I truly believe that you will get backlash because generally people are busy and want things min one place . Imagine a mortgage advisor saying "we've pulled all our mortgages off money supermarket and go compare but they are on " on the money market.com " well I don't use that site so I won't be buying yr mortgage……

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      3. PeeBee
        July 22, 2014 at 12:25

        "…and they certainly aren't interested in that pesky German firm Aldi, who rudely pushed in on the uk supermarket wars with the sole aim of disrupting the likes of Tesco?."

        The last time I checked, Aldi weren't BARRING ME from shopping there AND Tesco…

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        1. wilko
          July 22, 2014 at 12:54

          When I join AM my agency will NOT be barring ANYONE from looking/shopping/buying on ANY website…they can choose to look at all 3 property sites any 1 site any 2 sites…..really- whatever they want. I think you will find that Aldis' success is that people like their products which, in most part, are DIFFERENT from Tescos and NOT available at Tescos .

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      4. Robin
        July 22, 2014 at 13:41

        Great post, Wilko.

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        1. PeeBee
          July 22, 2014 at 14:27

          No, Robin – NOT a great post from wilko.

          wilko's ORIGINAL post drew the comparison that Aldi came into the market to "disrupt" established UK competitors. They have – but in order to do so they OFFERED SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Different branded products at different prices to their competitors. The AM/OTM "disruption" of MOVING THE STOCK TO ANOTHER LOCATION is FUNDAMENTALLY different. If you – and he – can't see and acknowledge that – then there is simply no hope.

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          1. wilko
            July 22, 2014 at 15:57

            Pee bee I know you agree that otm Does offer "something different" please don't make me list all the things that make it different to the current portals. "Different branded products at different prices to their competitors" otm will brand the property differently to the other 2 portals and the property prices/ properties will be different to the other competitor sites where the otm agency doesn't advertise" and as for "no robin not a great post" well that is really scraping the barrel …. Not allowing people to agree with me!

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          2. PeeBee
            July 22, 2014 at 16:16

            wilko – "…otm will brand the property differently to the other 2 portals…" SO…??
            "…and the property prices/ properties will be different to the other competitor sites where the otm agency doesn't advertise" Sorry?? You need to float that one past my thick Geordie brain once more, matey – it means diddly to me at the moment…

            "…and as for "no robin not a great post" well that is really scraping the barrel …. Not allowing people to agree with me!"

            Erm… actually, I was disagreeing with 'Robin' – and I gave my reasons for the disagreement. 'Robin' can agree with whomever he wants. So I guess that YOU are now scraping the bottom of a deeper, wider barrel – by trying to dictate what MY opinion should be!

            To you… 😉

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    2. OnTheFence
      July 22, 2014 at 11:30

      Wilko, Paul H you are comparing a persons home with a bag of peas!!! Sure if I want to shop around for the best price on a consumable I will 'trawl' various sites for the best deal. So the likes of Amazon, Tesco Aldi etc. are not good examples to make your case for the benefit of AM to consumers. There will be 'similar' types of property of course but only ever one '29 Acacia Avenue' which if you have sole agency for you'll want to ensure a buyer does not miss looking at!

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      1. wilko
        July 22, 2014 at 12:31

        "Sure if I want to shop around for the best price on a consumable I will 'trawl' various sites for the best deal."
        You are prepared to do that for a "consumable" but not for a property…the most important purchase in most peoples lives……mmm….interesting.

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  8. PeeBee
    July 22, 2014 at 11:47

    "Springett also revealed that although the current Gold offer closes on July 31, there is a possibility of a further Gold offer after that."

    WTF?? This is like the DFS 'Sale'. Shoddy sales methods from an organisation supposedly interested in promoting PROFESSIONALISM within our industry…

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    1. Paul H
      July 22, 2014 at 12:09

      "Shoddy sales methods"….What asking people for the business, and I thought you worked in sales PeeBee!!!

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      1. wilko
        July 22, 2014 at 12:23

        Really Pee Bee, "DFS sale???" using "WTF"??? sorry but you really are even more off the mark than usual today ! As PH says thay are only asking people to join ….what else would they do?

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        1. PeeBee
          July 22, 2014 at 12:58

          YES, wilko – "DFS sale". You know the one – "You'll NEVER get this deal again – closes Sunday" THEN, Monday brings ANOTHER "Sale". THIS heralded "Gold" offer will be the THIRD, "never to be repeated", deal. Laughable.

          And seeing as you will be reading this, Paul H – THAT is the "shoddy sales method" I am referring to. THAT is not, in MY opinion, as you so flippantly offer as a response "asking for the business". Obviously our opinions on something so fundamental differ vastly.

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          1. wilko
            July 22, 2014 at 13:09

            "You'll NEVER get this deal again – closes Sunday" THEN, Monday brings ANOTHER "Sale". THIS heralded "Gold" offer will be the THIRD, "never to be repeated", deal. "
            Ian and the sales staff have NEVER said ANY of the above with regard to asking for members so where did you get this from??

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          2. Paul H
            July 22, 2014 at 13:13

            PeeBee, so you've previously acknowledged that there is a problem with the dupoloy..How do you propose a new entrant should go about becoming a success, surely not the properytylive route that you so readily knock?! The ONLY way that a new entrant can now come into a market so heavily dominated by two portals is by disrupting and taking listings and revenue from them. The more who sign up the more will follow. It is clear that most agents want rid of the duopoly the trick is to get people to ACTUALLY put down, and they are.

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          3. PeeBee
            July 22, 2014 at 13:26

            "How do you propose a new entrant should go about becoming a success, surely not the properytylive route that you so readily knock?!" Sorry – I "knocked" propertylive WHEN and HOW??

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          4. oliverslondon
            July 28, 2014 at 08:10

            I've been to a number of AM presentations and have never heard the words 'never to be repeated' in relation to the different membership levels. I really can't see why any UK estate agents can have a real issue with what AM are doing. PeeBee I personally don't find your comments that structured of helpful as UK agent reading through these posts for useful information and interesting commentary on the industry. To me AM looks like an excellent proposition and we should all encourage changes to the industry that can help us offer a good service to our customers at a fair price.

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          5. PeeBee
            July 28, 2014 at 13:56

            "I've been to a number of AM presentations and have never heard the words 'never to be repeated' in relation to the different membership levels." You were clearly then as alert and awake at ALL THE presentations you attended (TWO was ONE MORE than enough for me – you're just a glutton for punishment…) as you were reading my post. Firstly, the quote you refer to was mine in relation to the "DFS sale" type mentality that is being adopted here. Would ANY (first-deal) Gold Member tell me, here and now, "Where you EVER told that a 'second round' of Gold Membership would be offered if you did not sign THEN?" What about those that have been offered it 'second time around' – where YOU told that if you didn't become one of the "time limited" or "limited to a maximum of 3000" offices to sign up, that you'd be given YET ANOTHER opportunity to jump in on some 'Gold' bandwagon or other?

            "I personally don't find your comments that structured of helpful as UK agent reading through these posts for useful information and interesting commentary on the industry."

            Personally, I don't give a chuff what you think. You ARE, however, entitled to an opinion and have voiced it.

            "To me AM looks like an excellent proposition…" So – why have you yet to sign up? You ARE, I take it, a 'High Street' Agent? Hard to tell on your profile – not many shop units on Google Streetview where your Registered Office is located – and none of them appear to be A2. And… if you AREN'T (I am guessing here…) – then AM don't want your business… so does the proposition look QUITE SO "excellent" if that IS the case?

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  9. CP
    July 22, 2014 at 11:57

    Paul H – Bang on the money as ever Wilko,?

    As Danny and OnTheFence correctly identified Wilko's analogy was ridiculously OFF the money.

    There is no 'price comparison' element at all on a portal – every 29 Acacia Avenue is the same price.

    I have no doubt Paul H that you and Wilko have a decent IQ -the bfact that both raise and second such ludicrously wrong analogies only goes to how emotion is overruling common business sense.

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    1. Paul H
      July 22, 2014 at 12:18

      Just to confirm you feel that people should only look at rightmove and Zoopla when sourcing a property and should not be disrupted by using a third portal??

      I've got to say the anti AM/vested interests brigade are now really fighting over themselves to come out with nonsensical arguments.

      Truth is over 100 a week are signing up, 3000 are on board and no one is listening to the trivial arguments being put forward.

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      1. wilko
        July 22, 2014 at 12:44

        So, it seems the latest argument put forward against AM is that it is unfair to the property buying public to force them to look on 3 sites instead of 2 for their dream property. Amazing. Hadn't you considered that most public will simply register, initially with all 3 sites for updates on properties in their area/budget…..a bit like they do now!
        Interesting that Direct Line decided NOT to go on any comparison websites yet is still one of the largest providers of insurance. But I guess you guys wouldn't use direct line as you only want 1 site to sell you insurance and you think it too much hard work to check more than 1 site……and before you say it…..insurance, just like property(not like peas) is bespoke every time.
        Can we have some more laughable reasons for agents not to join AM, it really brightens up the day.

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        1. OnTheFence
          July 22, 2014 at 13:19

          Presumably this is why Direct Line made £7m pre-tax profit against Moneysupermarket.com pre-tax profit of £43m? Again the analogy is misplaced. Insurance is sold on the risk involved and against material or physical factors. 29 Acacia Avenue is as has been said 'the most important purchase in most peoples lives' and as such a homebuyer will want to be able to see everything that is available in their price range matching their needs both practical and lifestyle. The internet allows you to do this from the comfort of your home, office or on the go. The internet removed the need to visit every estate agent office in a particular town or towns and broadened the reach of estate agents beyond local advertising. If AM is to succeed it's unique USP and aim should be to have EVERY property from EVERY estate agent in the UK thereby eliminating the need for consumers to have to go anywhere else. The problem with this of course is then AM have the monopoly, their charges will be unchecked and a new 'ankle-biter' will emerge to challenge AM!

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          1. wilko
            July 22, 2014 at 16:05

            On the fence ……..I think you will find that am will never have a monopoly as it won't accept online agents.
            Also to say am charges will be unchecked…..how so when the paying members own it? You really need to get a grip on what is actually happening before you post inaccurate comments.

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        2. danny
          July 23, 2014 at 13:21

          Interesting analogy, I know someone who works in this industry. Direct line originaly said no to go compare et all and when they got big they wanted to join but the comparison websites didnt take their business as they now had size. Direct line are forced to spend £45 million per year…year after year, just to keep their market share…not grow …keep . Its a good comparison as thats the size of commitment needed by AM to succeed …they aint got the brass

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          1. wilko
            July 24, 2014 at 13:27

            But Am members will still be on RM or Zoopla (if they want) so how is that similar? Direct line only row their own boat (and as a result earn more in pre tax profits than those individual companies on the comparison sites of which there are 1000s)

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          2. danny
            July 28, 2014 at 07:48

            Ahh , I'm starting to work you out you out Wilko. I've presented a set of facts about somethin and you've just had a complete guess and presented it as fact . How do you know what pre tax profit where made by anyone on a comparison website ? I challenge you to do the research … By guessing at stuff and presenting it as fact you could be perfect to work for AM…..;)

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      2. CP
        July 22, 2014 at 13:36

        Just to confirm you feel that people should only look at rightmove and Zoopla when sourcing a property and should not be disrupted by using a third portal??

        Eh … no. Wrong again.

        I don't feel that … but buyers and sellers DO !!

        How do I know? Because I've asked every single seller at a valuation for the last three months (95% of whom are buyers are well) what they think of AM led by EA's splitting the search experience into three.

        NOT ONE has had anything positive to say. Only negatives.

        Ask yourself this – where is the market research that AM have conducted that shows their 'disrupting the market' strategy is one welcomed and wanted by sellers and buyers??

        Where is YOUR market research that backs your opinions??

        This is another fatal flaw in the AM approach – they don't (and don't want to hear) the views of sellers and buyers – only the lapdog cuddling up of the anti RM and Zoopla brigade flocking like lemmings to their cut price portal door.

        "no one is listening to the trivial arguments being put forward."

        Oh dear …

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        1. Paul H
          July 22, 2014 at 13:55

          So what did buyers and sellers do when they had to use Rightmove, findaproperty and primelocation…..yep precisely.

          Is this it, is the best that you lot now have is that the consumer doesn't want to search on three portals….REALLY?!

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          1. CP
            July 22, 2014 at 14:09

            Paul H – what % of the search market do findaproperty and primelocation have??

            Exactly – practically zero compared RM and Zoopla.

            There are 1000s of burger joints around but 80% of burger lovers go to McD's or Burger King and 80% of that 80% go to RM.

            AM will be the equivalent of a local High Street burger joint at best.

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        2. Robin
          July 23, 2014 at 05:55

          CP For my part I put my priority on my future security, on the success and viability of my business, and the security of my staff. I don't care if I have to make it slightly less easy for the buying public to find a house to buy in the short term if it means my business will still be here in 10 years time. Your approach seems very fatalistic – it's no good fighting the trend, lay down our arms and surrender to the might of RM and Z. If we all take this road it won't matter to you which portal gets the upper hand because you won't be working in this industry – your business will not be able to compete with the profit driven internet portals who don't care about you or about how easy it is to find property for sale – they are driven purely by profit.

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  10. Paul H
    July 22, 2014 at 13:49

    Peebee…"Sorry – I "knocked" propertylive WHEN and HOW??"…I think I may have confused you with another poster, my humble apologies!

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  11. Paul H
    July 22, 2014 at 14:30

    CP said…."what % of the search market do findaproperty and primelocation have?? Exactly – practically zero compared RM and Zoopla. There are 1000s of burger joints around but 80% of burger lovers go to McD's or Burger King and 80% of that 80% go to RM. AM will be the equivalent of a local High Street burger joint at best."…..Seriously this has got to be a wind up. I cannot believe what i'm reading!

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    1. smile please
      July 22, 2014 at 16:06

      Its all a wind up. Every time a portal story comes up you get the AM Pro agents saying it will save us all and is the last chance for High Street agents. Then the get the Negative side that say will never work. Or the worse ones the inbetweeners who just want to pick a hole in every side.
      All I know is if agents spent half as much time trying to find new business or improving their own businesses or even sharing best practice as posting on this subject we would all be better off as an industry.

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      1. PeeBee
        July 22, 2014 at 16:19

        "
        All I know is if agents spent half as much time… sharing best practice as posting on this subject we would all be better off as an industry."

        Hear hear.

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    2. wilko
      July 22, 2014 at 16:14

      I agree…I reckon some must have been out on an old school 80s estate agent Friday pub lunch…?remember to get a taxi home.

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      1. CP
        July 22, 2014 at 17:19

        PHave sais
        …."what % of the search market do findaproperty and primelocation have?? Exactly – practically zero compared RM and Zoopla. There are 1000s of burger joints around but 80% of burger lovers go to McD's or Burger King and 80% of that 80% go to RM. AM will be the equivalent of a local High Street burger joint at best."…..

        Of course … I should have said – There are 1000s of burger joints around but 80% of burger lovers go to McD's or Burger King and 80% of that 80% go to McD's (not RM – oops!!).

        The McD's analogy here is that for OTM to replace RM as the portal market leader would be one of the greatest – and hardest to achieve – business successes of all time.

        It won't happen.

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        1. Paul H
          July 22, 2014 at 20:40

          If rightmove is a Big Mac and Zoopla a whopper then id say OTM is a nandos peri peri burger….it's far more hot and spicey with the potential to disrupt the taste buds!!

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          1. PeeBee
            July 22, 2014 at 21:19

            …and DEFINITELY an acquired taste!

            I would say more like a MARMITE sandwich… 😛

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  12. MF
    July 22, 2014 at 16:36

    I'm going to read this thread again in 12 months. It will be interesting to see which arguments were right… and which were wrong.

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    1. PeeBee
      July 22, 2014 at 21:21

      I think a review in 12 months will be… "interesting", MF – but let's meet here in FIVE YEARS for the REAL verdict. 😉

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      1. CP
        July 23, 2014 at 04:32

        I predict that within 6 months at least 25% of agents will realise they have made a mistake with AM and will want out.

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      2. MF
        July 23, 2014 at 07:42

        I've diarised that one too 🙂

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        1. MF
          July 23, 2014 at 08:57

          (I was responding to PeeBee about "diarising that one too")

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          1. PeeBee
            July 23, 2014 at 13:04

            (I know… 😉 )

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            1. MF
              July 22, 2015 at 16:35

              Well, here we are one year later…. much achieved but I think you’re right, PeeBee: we need to wait the full five years for the real verdict 🙂

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  13. surreyagent
    July 22, 2014 at 19:31

    I assume none of you are currently in employment????? If you are, I hope none of you work for me…….

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    1. PeeBee
      July 22, 2014 at 21:16

      Sorry – a Surrey Agent who doesn't want all his/her staff preaching the AM mantra to all and sundry 24/7?

      Whatever is the world coming to…? 😉

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  14. PeeBee
    July 23, 2014 at 08:13

    COMMENT OF THE WEEK???
    "I don't care if I have to make it slightly less easy for the buying public to find a house to buy in the short term if it means my business will still be here in 10 years time." – 'Robin'

    In fact, I think #onthemarket (there – lets bu99er up your positive seo attempts by adding the latest hashtag malarkey the way you lot do… 😉 ) should also adopt the above – AS THEIR MARKETING SLOGAN.

    'Robin' – Trademark it… QUICK! 😉

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    1. Robin
      July 23, 2014 at 09:27

      PeeBee – You are very good at taking comments out out of context but the salient word in that phrase is 'slightly' – the effect will be minimal and temporary. And despite your excessive use of capitals and puctuation to emphasise your feigned outrage, I do not apologise for putting the security of my family and my staff ahead of the profits being made by Z and RM – it will be soley because of excessive RM and Z charges if the means of searching for property on the internet becomes temporarily more complicated when AM launches – I did not ask RM & Z to increase their fees to unaffordable levels nor do I accept that their profit levels are justified. I have to say that I am beginning to suspect that you have a vested interest in damaging the AM venture not least because you pick out every pro-AM poster and go after them with a zeal which is entirely unnatural in anyone who is actually having to pay the current portals on a monthly basis.

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      1. PeeBee
        July 23, 2014 at 10:55

        Robin – "…the salient word in that phrase is 'slightly' – the effect will be minimal and temporary." You have no way of substantiating that. The proof of that particular pudding is yet to be put in the mixing bowl. BUT, mores to the point, I sincerely doubt that one single Member will EVER admit that it HADN'T been "minimal and temporary" – regardless of any evidence put forward by anyone to the contrary.

        "I do not apologise for putting the security of my family and my staff ahead of the profits being made by Z and RM…"

        Soory, I have to disagree – you are putting your "family" and "staff" ahead of YOUR CUSTOMERS. It is THEM who are the key to your business remaining open TOMORROW, never mind in ten years time. The sooner you and many other Agents wake up to that BASIC FACT, the better for everyone concerned.

        "I have to say that I am beginning to suspect that you have a vested interest in damaging the AM venture…" Then, sir, you are utterly wrong. I, like you and countless others, have a "vested interest" in AM/OTM – or something like it – SUCCEEDING.

        I just don't agree with its methodology or what it is aiming to do – to fragment the market. And my posts, stretching back now over twelve months on both EYE and 'that other' site, stand as testament to that.

        Sorry if MY opinion doesn't fit with YOUR opinion. But, without differing opinions life would be boring, wouldn't it.

        Like I have said time and time again – for the sake of THE INDUSTRY – but primarily ITS CUSTOMERS – I sincerely hope that I am very, very wrong in my opinion.

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        1. Robin
          July 23, 2014 at 12:09

          Hi PeeBee – sorry if I misjudged your motives – it's just that your position appears to be so anti-AM that you seem – to me at least – to be defending the status-quo which is surely only to the benefit of the two giants. My mistake.
          'Minimal and temporary'? I stand by this because there can only be one of two results – it works or it doesn't. If it works, AM will rapidly become the portal of choice; but if it doesn't, RM and Z will maintain and reinforce their dominance – either way this will not be a long drawn out process – only in my opinion, obviously.
          Finally, I am absolutely certain that my customers will benefit from the changes because variety introduces competition, which keeps prices in check, and if I can save money on one area of marketing I can spend it somewhere else. This this might enable me to invest in new technology, increase my staff training, improve my photography…. who knows how many benefits for our clients will spin off from these savings?

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          1. PeeBee
            July 23, 2014 at 17:35

            Robin

            No apology necessary (but thanks anyway! 😉 ) – I fully acknowledge there are numerous posters on sites like this who do so purely because they have an agenda – I have been battling with some of them for years.

            Of course, you only have MY word that I'm not billshutting you, just to make things even more difficult. For all you know, I could be a rep for another portal.

            If THAT was ever in doubt, I would call on the honourable Ms Rosalind Renshaw to vouch for me in that respect – and what I hope she would feel able to state is that my intentions and motives are equally honourable.

            EVEN IF they aren't the 'accepted norm'. 😉

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  15. CP
    July 23, 2014 at 09:11

    I asked these 5 questions yesterday – not one has been answered other than one poster saying advertising specifically on Rightmove or Zoppla isn't in his client agreement so he doesn't have to tell em anything. Aaah … such care for the client makes your heart bleed. Here are the 5 questions AGAIN – To all AM agents who will be dropping either Rightmove or Zoopla…. 1. From what date will you be informing sellers on valuation appointments that – from January – you will no longer be advertising on Rightmove or Zoopla? 2. What reasons will you give for this decision? 3. Will you be writing to all unsold clients prior to January OTM launch that you will no longer be advertising on Rightmove or Zoopla? 4. Will you allow such clients who are against this decision to cancel their agreements immediately even if they are within your sole agency period? 5. If not – why not? All very important – and very relevant – questions IMO.

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    1. Ric
      July 23, 2014 at 11:15

      1. From what date will you be informing sellers on valuation appointments that – from January – you will no longer be advertising on Rightmove or Zoopla?
      A) I/We came off Zoopla in full the day we signed for AM, (we actually dropped 2 of our 4 offices 18 months ago and both of those offices were not effected) so that job has been done for my company already, NEVER looked back. I’m surprised more have not ditched Zoopla already and helped pay for the initial AM membership and more surprised certain AM gold member agents are still “trying” to use Z against us… (but not very well)

      2. What reasons will you give for this decision?
      A) We simply showed clients their property listing on Zoopla, examples of low offers being made (on various properties) due to useless Zoopla info displayed alongside their property. Been on 6 months, 30 hits old prices….. everything I don't mind telling a buyer, BUT I want the buyer to call me not just read a stat which means little! and all based on the amount of times we get told “I'm offering £*** because Zoopla says……” and yep its always a low offer. (although any offer we like!)

      3. Will you be writing to all unsold clients prior to January OTM launch that you will no longer be advertising on Rightmove or Zoopla?
      A) For me not required, again was thinking well ahead of the game on this, although, most agents will easily explain why dropping Z or RM means little…. lets be fair, if they are "unsold" then both RM & Z cannot be doing that much for them anyway so the New kid on the block “OTM.co.uk” is worth a shout.

      4. Will you allow such clients who are against this decision to cancel their agreements immediately even if they are within your sole agency period?
      A) My contract has a 14 day notice period, ample time for them to leave me if required, that said coming off Z already means I will not have this issue BUT then, our service and attention to customer service excellence means FEW clients should care, AND if they have sold they don't care, if they have not then how is Z or RM helping them anyway! Z the easy target again.

      5. If not – why not? All very important – and very relevant
      A) Like some have commented, who wrote to their clients to tell them they were dropping the paper adverts? Agents will write to promo AM and will be right to do so very soon in my opinion and in the meantime, simply show why dropping Z now will have no effect on their marketing, as the info is stopping clients calling rather than leading them to….. (my opinion) and it has worked VERY well for us so far. The problem will be for agents who rely too much on BOTH Z and RM and have made a song and dance about them…. Both are simply a part of our tool kit and all we are doing is replacing a knackered tool with a shiny new one, which LOTS of agents endorse as the new tool to assist. BUT again we must not make people believe AM is everything!

      I don't think much explanation will be required to be honest, as either RM or Z will have 1/2 the stock and once again, buyers follow stock, vendors follow where buyer follow, so it will sort itself out in a matter of weeks.

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      1. PeeBee
        July 23, 2014 at 12:47

        Ric, matey – if YOU were "selling" AM – then I might be interested! 😉

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    2. PeeBee
      July 23, 2014 at 12:09

      CP – to be honest, whilst I agree that your questions are very relevant to the subject matter (and, like you, I would very much like to 'hear' the answers), I have to, in some respects, agree with wilko's response that "What each agent chooses to do with regard to your q's will be different depending on their circumstances…"

      That being said – the standard reply given here by pro-AM posters (aka by me as 'The AM Collective'…) is that they are doing it PURELY for the reasons highlighted by AM as its' coming into being- so there should definitely be a 'standard' set of responses to be used.

      I also understand that the second part of that response – "…and, to be fair, is nothing to do with you, or any other contributor to this forum." is a reasonably valid point given the weight that those answers may carry.

      Your post DOES reinforce points that I have been banging on about for many-a-month – and DOES reinforce the point that there is a need for these Agents to start nailing their colours to the wall with customers NOW about changes that they are adopting SOON.

      First job for AM/OTM's PR department, I suggest – preparing the propaganda sheets.

      We will no doubt hear them at some point in the future – if from no other source, on Appraisal appointments or discussions with potential Vendors/Landlords…

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      1. PeeBee
        July 23, 2014 at 12:36

        CP – I see that Ric, my old mucker from way back on these sites, has but his own ***k on the block while I wasn't looking!

        Best set of responses I think you'll see – and I would suggest the answers that should be adopted unilaterally.

        Only one I can pick a hole in (sorry, Ric matey…) – "…lets be fair, if they are "unsold" then both RM & Z cannot be doing that much for them anyway so the New kid on the block “OTM.co.uk” is worth a shout." – to which (as the customer) I would say "Fine – I'll have that AS WELL as the other two, then…!"

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        1. Ric
          July 23, 2014 at 20:21

          Hi PeeBee, I would revert them straight back to the point Z shows potential buyers too much info on page 1 of your property listing, so whilst I appreciate you wanting 3, I would much prefer 2 quality listings ie on AM & RM which are not being undermined by Z.

          The amount of properties my newest office has been to, since opening 15 months ago, where they were on with Z & RM agents and one of the first things I show them when asked what I will do different is "take them off Z" simply showing them the stats and info given to clients on their own house has many clients shudder and is a good pointer to why a property just sitting on a website like Z is not good for the property.

          Although all too often the marketing in general is so poor Z is just the wrapper for the poor photos, boring description and generally robotic marketing so many agents use. (After 23 years I still have a passion for being different)

          If I were my competitor I would actually say "take Rics firm, he is not on Zoopla has opened up 2 new offices and become market leaders in both areas, we hate to admit it, but Ric has proved Z is not required, just great marketing ie good photos, consistent refreshing of photos and descriptions, excellent customer services and ensure your staff are always asking for offers from buyers, simply listing a house on the web is not enough. I have used another (new) agents strong point as part of my marketing chat, saying how impressed we were with what they have done and saying we have adopted this method now as they have tried it and it works. Never be ashamed to follow others, the key is to do it better! adapt a great idea into an exceptional one with a service to match. Sounds corny but my newest office has used all of the other offices faults and other companies strengths to be a real winner. The reputation of the staff and service makes me grin like a Cheshire Cat when I hear people talk about it, which all comes back to AM, Z or RM whichever the new two will be NEITHER should be marketed as anything more than a tool to assist, a great tool but not the tool which will tie the deal, help the process and achieve you goal…that's the staff.

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          1. Paul H
            July 23, 2014 at 20:29

            Ric….great post you know your stuff old boy!!
            And totally agree that a portal IS just a tool.

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        2. SimonShinerock
          July 23, 2014 at 20:22

          Ha ha ha ha ha that was really funny

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          1. CP
            July 23, 2014 at 22:09

            Ric, thanks for replying and two great posts. At my last local AM recruitment meeting one of the partners of a leading multi office EA in my area (who has been vociferous in his anti RM stance and very influential in AM recruitment almost from its inception) said that whilst he couldn't be certain that AM would be a huge success he was certain of one thing – that the disruption caused by AM to RM and Zoopla would have effects that no one has yet forseen. On that I totally agree. Consider this: if as is expected most agents drop Zoopla do you think that this now public company c50% owned by the Thomson Media Group will just fade away tail between its legs? Not a chance. They have multi millions to throw at a defence/aggressive response that dwarfs the capital raised and available to AM. If that response was to allow sellers to ADVERTISE DIRECTLY THEMSELVES on Zoopla thus effectively turning themselves into the No1 online estate agency overnight that would impact massively on EA's instruction levels in equal measure. What many EA's have failed to realise is that the change in description legislation from the Property Misdescriptions Act to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations is that sellers are now responsible also for correctly describing/revealing all details relevant to the marketing of their property. That, to me, means there is no reason why a portal could not take direct instructions from sellers without being accountable for misdescriptions. I have bought Zoopla shares because they will respond one way or the other to any impact from AM. And, with their financial clout and brand awareness, I am backing them to win the war if not the early skirmishes. AM could, potentially, end up doing infinitely more harm to all EA's – members or not – than it does good. If you kick a elephant's in the bxll you better be prepared to get crushed. AM, and its supporters, ignore that outcome at your peril.

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          2. PeeBee
            July 23, 2014 at 22:12

            WHAT was really funny, Mr Shinerock?

            Welcome to the REAL Industry News website, by the way… 😉

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          3. PeeBee
            July 23, 2014 at 22:29

            'CP' – you who I think you might be, mon ami? 😉

            Ric is an old posting buddy of mine over on 'that other' site. He's a top guy in my books and what he says he means. AM should take his posts and copy them verbatim into their presentation material – don't you think?

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          4. PeeBee
            July 24, 2014 at 07:56

            Ermmm… hang on – posts by ME getting 'Likes' – what the chuff???

            You'll be agreeing with what I say next… ;o)

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          5. Robin
            July 24, 2014 at 14:58

            I like you PeeBee – it's hard not to like such an enthusiast – but I can't agree with you most of the time. No offence {;-)

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          6. PeeBee
            July 25, 2014 at 13:52

            Similarly,Robin, it is hard for me not to 'Like' – or, at very least, admire and respect – the enthusiasm and commitment to the AM/OTM cause of those who I have affectionately dubbed 'The AM Collective'. Similarly, that doesn't mean I have to agree with THEM, either! ;o)

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    3. Ric
      July 24, 2014 at 07:40

      Morning CP

      Just a thought……

      Z launch their online campaign tomorrow (with no warning!) You would think every Agent would drop Z and that INCLUDES all non supporting AM agents. Perhaps a few foolish corporates may not…..

      Firstly WE MUST remember a seller using an ONLINE agent will expect to be on the MAIN websites…..(Z is NO LONGER A MAIN WEBSITE to SEE PROPERTY it is simply a name people know at this point FACT as 90% of the stock would drop off surely!) will AM & RM allow Z on their sites…… erm surely not….. if RM did it may mean RM also lose all their stock instantly as well. As the High Street Agents think okay RM support Z so lets drop them to, NOTHING TO LOSE NOW IT SINK OR SWIM! so RM would be wise to block Z or any Z associated online brand name advertising an online service. Then we have punters who visit Z to see a handful of property, not very enticing for a seller to think erm….. clearly Z have no stock something is not quite right…. they will also think why am I not on RM or this AM site, I want coverage and lots of it online…. will buyers go to a website with just a few houses)

      Either way Z would now be having to explain why everyone has dropped them….. easy I hear you say as Z explain “Agents charge far too much and we (Z) only charge this! But then here is a question for you CP as you are now (you know you want to be) a client of mine who has seen the Z advert…….

      **Would you like to use the “Online Z model” to sell your home, it gets you on Z (not RM or AM) the website with few houses and a very impersonal service for their (a guess) £399 plus VAT offer?

      or

      **Stick with Ric, get RM and AM (take a look, lots of houses, probably 90% to 100% of stock between them, so all the buyers visit them) AND retain the personal touch for (you guessed it) THE SAME FEE AS ABOVE?

      They would struggle to take my clients as I would keep kicking the Elephant in the nuts until he thought enough is enough….. sometimes offering cheap is required, one of us will go out of business first BUT I am taking a guess I will collect more £400’s locally than they will…… especially as I will almost always be called in to advise on values as a locally seen face and brand of many years with SOLD signs all over the place…..so I can always price match, a unique advantage of being on the high street, we will always be used and sometimes just “used” but I get my say!

      I would not want to do this and hope not to….. but is it not a bit ignorant to think that an MD of any size company does not have a plan! I think PeeBee said 5 years will be the teller and VERY TRUE, not next year, there will be some immediate gains and loses and then the housing market will eventually dictate what clients need to assist in a house sale…be it online only or high street….perhaps both with Z fitting in somewhere and CP happy with his dividends or NOT!

      Time will tell…. and many cards yet to be played by all…… interesting and exciting times….. PS no animals especially elephants were harmed in the making of this thread. 🙂 good day all.

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      1. PeeBee
        July 24, 2014 at 07:55

        Jeez, Ric – you're a breath of fresh air to these discussions (as always…)!! ;o)

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  16. wardy
    July 24, 2014 at 09:02

    What a thread!
    Brilliant as my new Zoopla rep has just started firing the ''account review'' emails at me. It seems they would like to come down and have a chat. This will be the first portal rep meeting that i'm actually looking forward to.
    I guess i'm going to have to give in and go to a AM presentation, we are one of the firms that they are talking about in the article, they have a registered interest from us and not a lot else.
    As for overcoming objections from vendors about not being on zoopla? I think I can handle that one.

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    1. Paul H
      July 24, 2014 at 09:30

      "As for overcoming objections from vendors about not being on zoopla? I think I can handle that one."….You can also follow Ric's lead on that one!

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      1. PeeBee
        July 24, 2014 at 10:03

        Paul H – ""As for overcoming objections from vendors about not being on zoopla? I think I can handle that one."….You can also follow Ric's lead on that one!"

        Matey – THIS brings me back to one of my primary issues. You (The AM Collective, that is…) WANT "to break the duopoly". You MIGHT break it – or at very least, severely dent it. BUT… all I am seeing is Z will be the loser. RM – the one that has wazzed off practically EVERY AGENT in the land (and yes, you can even include ME in that extensive list if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy… ;o) ) – will most likely come out of this THE VICTOR – potentially even the SOLE SURVIVOR. Now – with the 'NEW' OTM/RM duopoly created, the hope is obviously that RM will be so scared $h!tl£SS that you will turn off THEIR life support system that they will cave in and reduce your portal fees to 1995 levels. I have to question what chance this hope has of becoming a reality. I, personally, think that you will simply be sharpening the teeth of the animal that already bites its feeders' hands.

        Time will tell, mon ami. Insert my usual ending sentence here…

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        1. Paul H
          July 24, 2014 at 10:26

          PeeBee…This battle will not be won by Jan 2015, many have predicted it will take 12 – 24 months.

          For me the strategy is a simple one…..1)Knock out Zoopla…2) knock out Rightmove. Perhaps in the short term it will make Rightmove stronger but in the long term the goal is to get onthemarket to a position where agents can slowly but surely come off of rightmove.

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          1. PeeBee
            July 24, 2014 at 10:40

            Matey – I relish THE THOUGHT of that day coming. I simply can't accept it will become A REALITY – my reasons for which I have posted many times previously as you well know, and these objections have not yet been overcome by anything that has been said or typed to me in the past year or so. In fairness, time and momentum is nibbling at them – but my motivation remains the same – I serve THE PUBLIC. IF, AND WHEN, the public 'buy into' OTM – then so will I.

            And I'll be its' biggest supporter.

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          2. wardy
            July 24, 2014 at 11:21

            Was going to say the same thing Paul H. We have to be realistic about what AM can achieve.
            Its reasonable to believe that AM are capable of knocking zoopla on its backside from day one. RM however will take time but we are already seeing a slight change in RM's attitude which means its going in the right direction.
            I still think AM have missed a massive trick here and passed by a USP that could of had them hitting the ground running. onthemarket could of been the FIRST PLACE to find new properties rather than just somewhere else to find property. Exclusivity of new listings for say 48 hrs. That would of worked and given buyers a genuine reason to log on to something new.

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  17. Paul H
    July 24, 2014 at 11:24

    PeeBee…."IF, AND WHEN, the public 'buy into' OTM – then so will I."

    And here is where our views differ PeeBee….I believe (as stated by Ric) that a web portal is and always should be just a tool to aid the agent. The customer chooses an agent not a web portal. It is up to the consumer to embrace the agent not Zoopla/needaproperty/rightmove/onthemarket/fish4homes.findaproperty/primelocation. When on a val I get asked many questions, only one of them is where do you advertise, the rest of the questions are asked to find out more about me, my company and are done to establish if I am the sort of person they can do business with, to this day I have never bought a Zoopla or rightmove rep with me on a val 😉

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    1. CP
      July 24, 2014 at 11:41

      Wardy, great idea about OTM having exclusivity on new listings for 48 hours. They definitely need a USP + that is beneficial to buyers and sellers and especially one that makes it worth a buyers time to search on both RM or Z AND OTM – and preferably OTM first. If OTM followed your great suggestion I'd join today. Like Pee Bee, I'm not against the concept of an EA run portal at all. However, unlike others I don't think that OTM will grab a large market share accumulatively over the next five years. It needs the equivalent of an elephant shotgun capable of blasting into Joe Public's awareness from day 1. Wardy's suggestion is a great way to do it.

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      1. wardy
        July 24, 2014 at 13:03

        I'm still waiting for my invitation to the board 🙁

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        1. PeeBee
          July 26, 2014 at 08:29

          Now then, wardy, me old mucker! ;o)

          Coupla weeks ago you were very much on the fence – wanting to see OTM up, running and working well before putting the 'wardy ***k on the OTM block', so as to speak. Now you wanna be a BOARD MEMBER??
          I might be a bit off-mark, here, but I sense a bit of a sea-change in wardyworld now – which especially considering you haven't yet attended an AM presentation (most probably chaired by your previous RM or Z rep that you had so much time and affection for…) is a tad confusing to me. Tell you what, matey – if Paul H, wilko et al were the AM reps their sign-up rate would be phenomenal – because these guys believe – and I'm talking full-on God Channel-type BELIEVE – in the cause, like it is a religion. BUT, as with every 'religion', money comes into it somewhere – and that somewhere is never at ground level. I see this as a Holy War we are entering. The troops are invading the next-door country because, they are told, it is for the greater good. It's got NOWT whatsoever to do with the usual Holy War scenarios spread throughout the history of our race – that the invaders come from a land where they pull potatoes out of the ground, and the land they seek to possess is full of oil or gold…

          It's the FOOTSOLDIERS like Paul H I fear for, mate – not the GENERALS. I know they don't want (or need…) me to worry for them, but maybe – just maybe – I am the one here who is realising reality, if you get my drift.

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          1. Paul H
            July 26, 2014 at 09:20

            I'm sure Wardy will no doubt want to answer for himself but as you've mentioned me in the post I just want to ask that you please leave religion out of it old boy, the topic drives me nuts at the best of times 😉 Rest assured AM is not a cult or a totalitarian ideology with the goal being to make all submit, although in time all will anyway!!

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        2. PeeBee
          July 26, 2014 at 09:47

          "Rest assured AM is not a cult […arguable… ;o) ] or a totalitarian ideology […you sure?] with the goal being to make all submit […got THAT right…], although in time all will anyway!!" ;o)

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    2. PeeBee
      July 24, 2014 at 13:34

      Paul H – "I believe (as stated by Ric) that a web portal is and always should be just a tool to aid the agent. The customer chooses an agent not a web portal." Matey – what have I said to you until blue in the fizzog – TURN OFF T'INTERWEB! If there was EVER a perfect "bring it on" scenario to cheer up lil ole' PeeBee, THAT would be the very fellow. Advantages – we would ALL save dosh (sorry – I mean "be able to invest our marketing spend elsewhere…"); we would get back to a level playing surface where the choice WOULD be based upon ability rather than widgettery, and maybe – just maybe – the public would remember what their legs were given to them for and actually LEAVE THEIR LIVING ROOMS to "search" for property like they did 'back in the day'! ;o)

      Funnily enough, I am almost NEVER asked "where do you advertise?".

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      1. Paul H
        July 24, 2014 at 13:47

        "Funnily enough, I am almost NEVER asked "where do you advertise?"….That's because your customers no doubt trust you old boy 😉

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        1. PeeBee
          July 24, 2014 at 13:48

          Didn't think it needed saying, Paul H… ;o)

          Report
  18. Paul H
    July 24, 2014 at 11:33

    "I still think AM have missed a massive trick here and passed by a USP that could of had them hitting the ground running. onthemarket could of been the FIRST PLACE to find new properties rather than just somewhere else to find property. Exclusivity of new listings for say 48 hrs. That would of worked and given buyers a genuine reason to log on to something new."…..Who's to say that they don't have some USP's ready for January that are very similar to this Wardy, if there was a vote to do as you have proposed then I would certainly agree to it.

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    1. Ric
      July 24, 2014 at 12:19

      Hi Paul.

      I agree, but this can still be done and lead by the agents without AM.

      I have pressed and pressed for Vebra (as I use Encore Live) to allow selective portal updating. Jupix offer this feature where you can select which websites you go on AND WHEN. So you can tick on a list AM first and then tick to upload to RM after 14 days or so, this way you can do promo's on the lines of "to find exclusive OTM properties with me visit OTM.co.uk first" bla bla.

      RM cannot make you have your stock as "visible" they have an "invisible" option for a reason! Simply use it. Although I wonder if the newer version of RM+ is gearing up to make like a touch harder for the agent to manipulate what is seen and when.

      Just in case if there are any Vebra employees who may read this, come on follow the Jupix feature and allow for the agent to chose when and if a certain website gets the listing…… Vebra or in my case Encore Live should give me 100% control of what I do with my stock, NOT allow the websites to dictate this which is basically what is happening now.

      Perhaps more Encore Live, Vebra users should ask for the Jupix feature! the more the demand the better the chance of the feature.

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      1. Ric
        July 24, 2014 at 12:24

        Sorry Paul, my reply may have been better directed at Wardy.

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      2. Ric
        July 24, 2014 at 12:35

        Sorry my point about the RM invisible is, "if" AM do not have an exclusivity feature, simply make your stock invisible on RM for 14 days or so! A manual task but perhaps a worth while one. As in fairness I think it is up to the Agents software provider to offer the control over portal updating…just like Jupix do.

        I have occasionally made my entire stock invisible just to see who phones first…. RM or a client and typically it is simply a house hunter saying "A house I liked has come off RM….why?" so interestingly coming off RM will make the phones ring! how we then deal with those calls is key…..

        Try the invisible one, if a vendor calls to complain, you know you can press "visible" and have them back on in about 30 seconds, so just say it is a technical update we are resolving, all will be sorted in a few minutes and you will be back on…which they will.

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        1. PeeBee
          July 26, 2014 at 08:35

          "…how we then deal with those calls is key….. Try the invisible one, if a vendor calls to complain, you know you can press "visible" and have them back on in about 30 seconds, so just say it is a technical update we are resolving, all will be sorted in a few minutes and you will be back on…which they will." Ric… matey – I'm sorry to say this (especially to you, bud) – but when we have to LIE to our paying customers to cover our self-serving actions, then we have completely lost the plot of WHY we are doing what we DO – and WHO we are doing it FOR.

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          1. Ric
            July 26, 2014 at 20:38

            Evening PeeBee, I get that and take that! also expected a response on those lines….. fortunately on the occasions I have made my stock invisible to see if the phone rings and who rings…..it has never been a vendor asking about their house, although I have said exactly what I suggested I would as above, when a house hunter has questioned why a property has disappeared.

            You say lie? Well I took the property off, the website to see the impact of doing so, a marketing strategy of sorts, be it rubbish or good it was done to see the impact and intended to see "what if my stock came off RM" would I get a call from buyers still or just vendors. The fact my intention was to put them back on at the first point of complaint or proof my vendors would be effected by not being on is by no means done so in a way to effect their chances of selling, merely to see what will/can make the phones ring. So far I have only sadly dared leave them invisible for a few hours. My suggestion we are awaiting a technical update is factually true however….. the RM website and its changing from invisible to visible is indeed technical and would be an update to the property status, I know you want me to say to that person, its not on because I took it off to see who would call and perhaps I would be as well to do so, but it is not a LIE more a diplomatic way of telling the truth. Saying RM have taken it off, or there has been a technical "problem" and saying its not our fault would be a lie, but I am in complete control of this invisible situation.

            and PeeBee you know as well as anyone, they ain't paying me until they sell and if they don't sell they don't pay me, so nothing I do would ever be to hinder the chance of getting my money, EVERY ONE OF MY CLIENTS knows me for saying for some 20 years plus (OVER half my life selling property) on every valuation, I want your business and then I want rid of you, I want your money and I want as much of it as I can and as quick as I can……. so those who have met me and know me, are never in doubt anything I do is to help them….. as they also know I want them to become my companies biggest advocate after we complete the deal.

            BUT I get what you're saying as it can and may seem underhand, but not intended to be so in a way which I think warrants the tag you've stuck on it…….especially in the manner in which using the invisible function is my intention.

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          2. PeeBee
            July 28, 2014 at 08:07

            Ric… I had 'War & Peace' typed up & ready to press 'Submit' in response to the above – and then I spotted you'd collected a 'Like' for your answer. I guess, therefore, to 'The AM Collective' your "diplomatic way of telling the truth" trumps MY brainwave of ACTUALLY TELLING THE TRUTH.

            Pointless, then, continuing the debate. You've scored the Home Run with the troops – but 'savvy Agent' could well collect the instructions… by telling vendors they will have their property ON THE MAJOR PORTALS IMMEDIATELY.

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          3. Ric
            July 28, 2014 at 08:35

            Morning PeeBee

            Agreed! and as a Savvy Agent myself, I too can have you on the major property portals immediately! To be fair, I NEVER get asked "How Quick will you have me on RM?" I do get asked "How quick will you have me on the market or the website" but few are so specific to ask about RM….. so again, not sure it will ever be a problem, the first sniff it is, I will adapt again.
            Savvy agents adapt, change, keep up and then step ahead….. and I glad this particular part of the thread may end here, as I do understand your point on the above!

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          4. PeeBee
            July 28, 2014 at 09:10

            Hi again Ric, matey.

            You see – this is where the borders get fudged. My point has NEVER BEEN that t'internet is what the public ask for. My point is that it IS relied on heavily – by many Agents – as a sales tool (in as you know yourself, in some instances it's ALL they've got to offer…) – and those Agents will drive home at Appraisal the importance of the vendor's property being advertised online… IMMEDIATELY – and will know which Agents (that, you would presume, would be ALL of those listing on OTM) will be operating the 'RM/Z embargo'. And whilst I think that it is simply another admission of their reliance on technology to do their job for them, I wouldn't blame them in the slightest for waking up to what is actually presenting THEM with a USP. Mind you – I often wonder if a cattle prod could entice some of those we are talking about to 'wake up'… ;o)

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          5. Ric
            July 28, 2014 at 09:49

            Completely agree….. less so do I get asked nowwa days where we advertised and quite frankly you could turn the ****** thing (internet) off for me! I say this on almost every valuation as well….. and I have no real counter comments against this as my explanation of wanting people to talk to me about your home and not decide just from a web page is often met with agreement and the sigh of reality that this just isn't the way!

            One of my latest "thoughts" of "could we, should I" is to have NOTHING advertised about the property(ies) for sale with me on the website(s)…. simply an outside picture, the price and a simple one liner "Call for more info" you would think the phones would potentially ring more to ask about room sizes and for more photos etc and if the property they have called about does not suit them, at least we can chat about another property etc etc. Something easily done and something which most sellers you would think would like, if they knew their agent was getting more of a chance to defend against the thought a bedroom was too small or the picture of a lounge was putting them off because that buyer HAD TO call to find this info out….. Less is more and perhaps in property this could be a way forward.

            I sometimes list a "preliminary advert" when a property is coming on the next day (contract signed already! and EPC ordered, for those doubting LOL) anyway my point the phone rings off the hook without anything but a road name and a price, not even a photo as its not been taken at this point. So perhaps we should all save some cash, drop all RM products and list 1 photo a price and the address, level playing field and see if the phones ring more, we are all still on the web, but showing the public perhaps less is more.

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          6. PeeBee
            July 28, 2014 at 11:02

            Ric – let's continue this debate at the bottom of the page, matey. It's pretty much the crux of this whole shenanegans but it's lost in the middle of the page & only you and me are reading it!! ;o)

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          7. Ric
            July 28, 2014 at 12:18

            Agreed, I will move to the bottom of the page, although will need you to call me a liar or shout at me again to get me going! hahaha….. 😉

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          8. PeeBee
            July 28, 2014 at 13:13

            Ric – I will be indeed posting at the bottom of the page later today (tonight) sometime, and I look forward to 'seeing' you there. I'll do my best to neither shout at you OR (broke my promise already…) call you a Master Diplomat of truth-telling – BUT (broke it again…) I'll be frank. You know if nothing else you'll get that from me! ;o)

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    2. wardy
      July 24, 2014 at 14:13

      do you know something we don't Paul?
      are we about to get a Paul H exclusive?

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      1. Paul H
        July 24, 2014 at 14:22

        "do you know something we don't Paul? are we about to get a Paul H exclusive?"…..Actually no, i'm in the same boat as everyone else. But based on the moves made so far and the way the AM plan is running to perfection, I just can't believe that Ian Springett and co havn't got something planned. My view is that it is this type of USP that will be the one final move by AM that makes everyone else jump on board. Something will be done around November/December time that will make most high street full service traditional agents realise that they need to be #onthemarket. I will say again that it's all a guess!

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        1. Ric
          July 24, 2014 at 15:08

          I think the problem will always lie with the agency software NOT the property portals for the exclusive bit, assuming most agents are on an auto feed not a manual upload to the property portals.

          I have chatted over and over about this, the problem for Vebra clients (or specifically Encore Live) at present as confirmed by them is they have no plan at present to offer a priority over portal uploads in terms of the order in which they upload OR an option to exclude one.

          So for me at present I put my houses on Encore Live and hey presto they appear on RM and My website over night (although live feed is being applied) still both will get the data as I have no way of saying yes to one and no to the other on Encore Live.

          AM may have to persuade Vebra (Encore) this is a feature its member agents want **WITH** the Vebra clients confirming this IN ADVANCE and from now, so the tech teams can make it happen and Vebra hear this is a feature wanted from all angles.

          It is possible as Jupix (not sure if anyone here uses it) has the option to tick and include or exclude the portal uploads of you choice. A snazzy feature which surely Vebra can do.

          I have said to AM that perhaps Business plan 2 for AM once they/we have achieved its goal is to produce an agency software package something "live and in real time" which will REALLY give the power back to the agent, imagine we now control the websites and the agency software….. complete control back, no more paying for your software and both website and software working in perfect harmony….. ah what a lovely place this would be…..

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          1. smile please
            July 24, 2014 at 15:46

            Interesting if the Jupix feature will continue to be available as Vebra now own them.

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          2. Ric
            July 24, 2014 at 16:32

            Hi Smile please

            there you go, I missed that one! so indeed no excuse really… and so my first call of the morning will be another push for this feature.

            Although, it does make you think about AM Agency Software as an idea!

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          3. RM
            July 28, 2014 at 11:02

            This feature is available in our software and has been for the last 7 years! Richard Murray – Eurolink.

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          4. Ric
            July 28, 2014 at 12:27

            Hi RM – eewww, I'm about to ask RM for help! can I call you Richard it makes me shudder to think about taking up more services offered by RM.

            Who's the best person to talk to at your place regarding your software and prices etc AND have you had comms with AM to ensure you are both singing of the same hymn sheet as you post may be of interest to me (and others on here) with your feature.

            I'm currently with Vebra and have no real loyalty anymore even though we joined them in the first of Encore32 days, since then we are nothing but a small number in their vast portfolio.

            I would like to see an example of your software and how it works, I checked Jupix out but simply hated it in comparison to the ease of Encore Live, although they did have this great feature it was not enough to swap for and perhaps fortunate I didn't based on I would be still with TPSG. Thanks in advance.

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          5. RM
            July 28, 2014 at 18:20

            Yes Ric, by all means call me Richard and thanks for pointing out my unfortunate initials in this debate!

            We have always included this feature to ensure that our clients have flexibility and control. Not every Vendor / Landlord necessarily wants to advertise their property on every portal. This is simply an extension of our approach to delivering off the shelf products which fit around our clients preferred way of working.

            Contact me directly: richard@eurolink.co and we will make arrangements for you to have a demonstration of our software.

            In response to your query about communication with AM I went to a presentation by Ian Springett at Savills back in November and approached him afterwards to explain who we were. He said that ‘we should be friends’ and I gave him my business card and suggested he contact me to speak about the software side of things. I am yet to hear from him but I agree that software plays a very important part in the process and I understand the calls for an Agents Mutual Software although I would genuinely warn against this in the early days as it may prove a costly distraction to the task in hand.

            Look forward to hearing from you and good luck to all those involved.

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  19. wardy
    July 24, 2014 at 13:01

    I have been doing it myself for nearly a year now, feeding my own site in live time and letting the portals take a feed the next day and it works brilliantly on a local level. My software providers have been trying to get me to instant upload to RM for a while which i'll never buy into.
    It's not a big deal for the software providers to action this, shouldn't really have to go clicking the invisible button for everything you upload.

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  20. wilko
    July 24, 2014 at 13:52

    I have just cancelled the membership of Zoopla for all my branches….Ironically the money made by flipping the discounted / free shares we got paid a massive chunk of our AM commitments. I would have kept both going but RM came back to me with a greatly discounted rate for all the branches in 2015 as long as I stayed for at least 12 months. All ready to re brand the offices with otm stuff when it's ready……And in answer to the posters who seem to think they will have an advantage over an agency that isn't on Zoopla…As Ric has already stated, and I've found to be the same, that vendors are not significantly bothered about being on Zoopla. I would continue to question those on this thread who state that their market research said that ALL their customers would not have gone on the market with them if they weren't on Zoopla.
    And hey…..lets say AM doesn't take off (I do believe it will)…….At least I am paying less than you next year on my RIGHTMOVE FEES……Non AM members-go try and re negotiate your fees with with RM (or ZOOPLA) next year and see how you get on……you will probably be facing an increase to cover my discount from RM and my wholesale removal of fees to Zoopla!!!

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    1. PeeBee
      July 25, 2014 at 09:34

      Hi wilko. I truly hope this move works for you. Again, well done for negotiating a drop with RM – although it seems like others such as 'phoenix' had less fortune when they tried. Maybe you should offer your services to others in that respect… 😉

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    2. PeeBee
      July 25, 2014 at 10:11

      Hello again – didn't want to potentially lose the impact of the above 'positive' post to you – so here's a 'PS'…

      Just one question, if I may – you state "I would continue to question those on this thread who state that their market research said that ALL their customers would not have gone on the market with them if they weren't on Zoopla…." Have I missed something? I can't recall a single post to that effect… (insert 'confused' smiley)

      Report
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